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Serious interference on cb/hf radio after fiber optic install in cavan, radiation in

  • 20-10-2016 10:27PM
    #1
    aiden007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38 ✭


    (Radiation in the air??)FIber optic not meant to interfere with anything, why is noise level off the scale since install, worried about radiation coming from these lines and possible hidden health risks.


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Comments

  • #2
    The_Rev
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 100 ✭✭The_Rev


    Does the fiber run into some sort of electronic box?

    Did you try unplugging the cable from the box & then unplug the box from the mains? is your interference still there?

    Is fiber not just a light source? so shouldn't contain any RF ? unless it's coax or has an associated copper cable for some other reason? I'm not familiar with fiber cables... but RFI I would know about.

    take a pic of the install.... where's your CB antenna? what frequency is it on? what does it sound like?

    p.s. there's no hidden health risks... a signal down a coax cable is far less than what your CB radio transmits!
    aiden007 wrote: »
    FIber optic not meant to interfere with anything, why is noise level off the scale since install, worried about radiation coming from these lines and possible hidden health risks.


  • #3
    aiden007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38 ✭aiden007


    The_Rev wrote: »
    Does the fiber run into some sort of electronic box?

    Did you try unplugging the cable from the box & then unplug the box from the mains? is your interference still there?

    Is fiber not just a light source? so shouldn't contain any RF ? unless it's coax or has an associated copper cable for some other reason? I'm not familiar with fiber cables... but RFI I would know about.

    take a pic of the install.... where's your CB antenna? what frequency is it on? what does it sound like?

    p.s. there's no hidden health risks... a signal down a coax cable is far less than what your CB radio transmits!

    I don't have this broadband in my house, there was no noise in my area until fiber was installed in my area,20 over 9 (constant crackling all of the time (no changes made in my qth. Noise severe all over town since install. I was talking to siro workers about this, they said they know it affects it but there is nothing been done about it!


  • #4
    The_Rev
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 100 ✭✭The_Rev


    Do you have a handheld unit you can use to sniff out where the noise is coming from?
    any hf radio will do.... see if you can find out the source is my best advice.
    If it's a faulty piece of equipment in your street then there's laws against out of band emissions.
    when you say "severe all over town" what do you mean? do you mean it's the same no matter where you drive to? I take it you've something in the car now? You'll have to do a bit more hunting i'm afraid.... I wouldn't have enough information to decisively say what was causing the RFI and that means very little can be done about it.

    You can't just blanket say it's the fiber.... do you mean it's a faulty cabinet? exchange? is it the routers people use in their homes? is every new router at fault? grab yourself a portable hf radio and go walk about... if the signal is 20 over 9 then remove the antenna so make it weaker and walk around until it gets too strong again, then attenuate the signal some more until you have found at least one source.


  • #5
    aiden007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38 ✭aiden007


    The_Rev wrote: »
    Do you have a handheld unit you can use to sniff out where the noise is coming from?
    any hf radio will do.... see if you can find out the source is my best advice.
    If it's a faulty piece of equipment in your street then there's laws against out of band emissions.
    when you say "severe all over town" what do you mean? do you mean it's the same no matter where you drive to? I take it you've something in the car now? You'll have to do a bit more hunting i'm afraid.... I wouldn't have enough information to decisively say what was causing the RFI and that means very little can be done about it.

    You can't just blanket say it's the fiber.... do you mean it's a faulty cabinet? exchange? is it the routers people use in their homes? is every new router at fault? grab yourself a portable hf radio and go walk about... if the signal is 20 over 9 then remove the antenna so make it weaker and walk around until it gets too strong again, then attenuate the signal some more until you have found at least one source.

    Definitely without shadow of a doubt it is fiber optic, noise is equally strong throughout the area (harsh frying eggs,) no noise before hand, had this confirmed by siro, they said they know about it and there is nothing they can do about it, Filter it out on your end. Which can't be done,(to severe).it won't be long until it is across Ireland, cb/ham radio operators will be affected, when this happens they will know what it is.


  • #6
    The_Rev
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 100 ✭✭The_Rev


    what is it being caused by exactly? is it coming from cabinets or from the house router/wifi box?
    fiber optic doesn't carry any electrical signals, only the switch gear on either end of the cable.
    in which case it's some sort of electronic equipment.

    You'll need to find out what exactly... it is no way a fiber optic cable though. fiber optic cables carry no RF energy whatsoever!

    Also, in all honesty, i doubt anyone from Siro would know about RFI, nor what to do about it.
    you'll have to do a bit more finding out at your own end I'm afraid....

    You haven't given me anything to go by on your replies....

    What other steps have you taken to diagnose the source?


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  • #7
    aiden007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38 ✭aiden007


    The_Rev wrote: »
    what is it being caused by exactly? is it coming from cabinets or from the house router/wifi box?
    fiber optic doesn't carry any electrical signals, only the switch gear on either end of the cable.
    in which case it's some sort of electronic equipment.

    You'll need to find out what exactly... it is no way a fiber optic cable though. fiber optic cables carry no RF energy whatsoever!

    Also, in all honesty, i doubt anyone from Siro would know about RFI, nor what to do about it.
    you'll have to do a bit more finding out at your own end I'm afraid....

    You haven't given me anything to go by on your replies....

    What other steps have you taken to diagnose the source?

    Noise is same as this,watch this youtube video (The truth about Broadband over power lines-BPL) when noise seems to be everywhere it is hard to track source, it's like trying to find source of a signal s9 and no matter were you go it is s9 it is radiating all over the town which makes me believe that whatever it maybe it is emitting from powerlines,


  • #8
    The_Rev
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 100 ✭✭The_Rev


    This isn't fiber? this is broadband over power line (BPL)

    Is that what is being provided to your town?
    i.e. it's not fiber it's BPL ?


    aiden007 wrote: »
    Noise is same as this,watch this video (The truth about Broadband over power lines-BPL) when noise seems to be everywhere it is hard to track source, it's like trying to find source of a signal s9 and no matter were you go it is s9 it is radiating all over the town which makes me believe that whatever it maybe it is emitting from powerlines,


  • #9
    jd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,785 ✭✭✭jd


    aiden007 wrote: »
    Noise is same as this,watch this youtube video (The truth about Broadband over power lines-BPL) when noise seems to be everywhere it is hard to track source, it's like trying to find source of a signal s9 and no matter were you go it is s9 it is radiating all over the town which makes me believe that whatever it maybe it is emitting from powerlines,

    It's not broadband over powerlines, it's FTTH.


  • #10
    The_Rev
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 100 ✭✭The_Rev


    So there's a physical fiber optic cable running to the home? as the FTTH abbreviation suggests?

    Or is it Fiber to a central "cabinet" in the locality and then BPL to the home?



    jd wrote: »
    It's not broadband over powerlines, it's FTTH.


  • #11
    aiden007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38 ✭aiden007


    Broadband over powerlines, fibre is running over power lines!


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  • #12
    The_Rev
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 100 ✭✭The_Rev


    OP: I give up...

    The ESB have in some areas wrapped a fiber cable over the power lines.

    It looks like this:
    https://www.esb.ie/images/default-source/1-x1-Images/national-network-1x16f80582d46d164eb900aff0000c22e36

    or this one:
    http://www.esbelectricmail.com/_archives/em_archive/images/news/may03/n9.jpg


    This is what I envisage when I hear of fiber over power-line.

    Is this what is going to all the homes in your town? Or is this fiber going to a central location in your town and from there high speed broadband (which is absolutely not fiber) transmitted by other means to the houses?

    Unless a physical FIBER OPTIC CABLE is going to the house it is NOT fiber.

    So is it Fiber or another means of distributing broadband?


    aiden007 wrote: »
    Broadband over powerlines, fibre is running over power lines!


  • #13
    aiden007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38 ✭aiden007


    The_Rev wrote: »
    So there's a physical fiber optic cable running to the home? as the FTTH abbreviation suggests?

    Or is it Fiber to a central "cabinet" in the locality and then BPL to the home?

    The noise is the (same) as that video. And is like that all over town since fiber install, any ideas why there is constant 20 over 9 noise since the day fiber broadband was installed in cavan???


  • #14
    jd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,785 ✭✭✭jd


    aiden007 wrote: »
    Broadband over powerlines, fibre is running over power lines!
    All it is is fibre optic cable using the same ducts and poles as the electric cables. This has been explained to you before.


  • #15
    The_Rev
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 100 ✭✭The_Rev


    OP: you still haven't answered the question!

    Without answering the question of what exactly has been installed into your town there's zero chance of telling you the source of the noise....

    fiber over powerline is any sort of marketing term, it tells me nothing about the physical layer.


    aiden007 wrote: »
    The noise is the (same) as that video. And is like that all over town since fiber install, any ideas why there is constant 20 over 9 noise since the day fiber broadband was installed in cavan???


  • #16
    The_Rev
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 100 ✭✭The_Rev


    That's not what's in the video... BPL technology is in the video.
    OP seems to think it's physical fiber over the cables & ducts like you suggest in your post.

    However, it is absolutely impossible to receive RF energy from an optic fiber cable, as like it's name suggests, that particular type of cable doesn't carry any electric or RF energy. It carries photons of light which is impossible to receive using a HF or any other type of radio equipment.
    jd wrote: »
    All it is is fibre optic cable using the same ducts and poles as the electric cables. This has been explained to you before.


  • #17
    jd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,785 ✭✭✭jd


    The_Rev wrote: »
    That's not what's in the video... BPL technology is in the video.
    OP seems to think it's physical fiber over the cables & ducts like you suggest in your post.

    However, it is absolutely impossible to receive RF energy from an optic fiber cable, as like it's name suggests, that particular type of cable doesn't carry any electric or RF energy. It carries photons of light which is impossible to receive using a HF or any other type of radio equipment.

    The ESB/Siro are doing fibre to the home, as are eir in some areas.
    The ESB ran a trial a few years ago of broadband through the electrical cable, and came to the conclusion it wasn't a runner.


  • #18
    aiden007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38 ✭aiden007


    The_Rev wrote: »
    OP: you still haven't answered the question!

    Without answering the question of what exactly has been installed into your town there's zero chance of telling you the source of the noise....

    fiber over powerline is any sort of marketing term, it tells me nothing about the physical layer.

    FTTH


  • #19
    The_Rev
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 100 ✭✭The_Rev


    Cool, so you've confirmed it's a physical fiber cable running over the power line to each home.

    So next question is; could it be the equipment at the home to translate from fiber to ethernet that's the source of the RFI in question or could it be the "cabinets" that source the fiber cables running to a block of homes?

    I'm no expert in how exactly the ESB/Siro are running the fiber cables but it can only be at either end of the cable (or both)...

    We need OP to figure out which end... or which piece of equipment is causing the interference.

    p.s. OP are you a Ham radio operator or a CB enthusiast ? or both? I'm presuming you know how to track down the source of RFI ?
    jd wrote: »
    The ESB/Siro are doing fibre to the home, as are eir in some areas.
    The ESB ran a trial a few years ago of broadband through the electrical cable, and came to the conclusion it wasn't a runner.


  • #20
    aiden007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38 ✭aiden007


    The_Rev wrote: »
    Cool, so you've confirmed it's a physical fiber cable running over the power line to each home.

    So next question is; could it be the equipment at the home to translate from fiber to ethernet that's the source of the RFI in question or could it be the "cabinets" that source the fiber cables running to a block of homes?

    I'm no expert in how exactly the ESB/Siro are running the fiber cables but it can only be at either end of the cable (or both)...

    We need OP to figure out which end... or which piece of equipment is causing the interference.

    p.s. OP are you a Ham radio operator or a CB enthusiast ? or both? I'm presuming you know how to track down the source of RFI ?

    Not sure, there is about 150 houses in this estate (big estate) noise is very bad all over so can't tell them to switch of equipment, at least 70 have this broadband.


  • #21
    The_Rev
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 100 ✭✭The_Rev


    OP are you a Ham radio operator or a CB enthusiast ? or both? I'm presuming you know how to track down the source of RFI ?

    Can you tell me what you know about RFI and how you might go about tracking down the source?

    Yes if 70 pieces of equipment are turned on and are causing RFI in your street or estate it wouldn't be a big job to find out if it was the summation of each of these boxes are causing your RFI.

    Can you not do this?


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  • #22
    aiden007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38 ✭aiden007


    The_Rev wrote: »
    OP are you a Ham radio operator or a CB enthusiast ? or both? I'm presuming you know how to track down the source of RFI ?

    Can you tell me what you know about RFI and how you might go about tracking down the source?

    Yes if 70 pieces of equipment are turned on and are causing RFI in your street or estate it wouldn't be a big job to find out if it was the summation of each of these boxes are causing your RFI.

    Can you not do this?

    CB operator currently studying for license, don't have much to track source only am portable radio 800 khzs


  • #23
    aiden007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38 ✭aiden007


    The_Rev wrote: »
    OP are you a Ham radio operator or a CB enthusiast ? or both? I'm presuming you know how to track down the source of RFI ?

    Can you tell me what you know about RFI and how you might go about tracking down the source?

    Yes if 70 pieces of equipment are turned on and are causing RFI in your street or estate it wouldn't be a big job to find out if it was the summation of each of these boxes are causing your RFI.

    Can you not do this?

    CB operator currently studying for license, don't have much to track source only am portable radio 800 khzs


  • #24
    The_Rev
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 100 ✭✭The_Rev


    What do you mean AM portable radio 800 kHz? I don't understand what you mean.
    Is it a portable AM radio tuned to only 800kHz ?

    If you're studying for a ham radio license are you a member of a club? Do you have Ham Radio friends?
    It's extremely easy to ask one of your neighbours if you can have a quick check to see if their fiber router box is causing RFI
    Any of your club members will be able to assist you here with attaching a very low gain antenna to a portable receiver to confirm it is the box at the end of the fiber cable causing the issue.

    You will need to prove that the box in each house is causing you interference.
    You can then bring this to the next level with Comreg (and the IRTS to back you)


  • #25
    aiden007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38 ✭aiden007


    The_Rev wrote: »
    What do you mean AM portable radio 800 kHz? I don't understand what you mean.
    Is it a portable AM radio tuned to only 800kHz ?

    If you're studying for a ham radio license are you a member of a club? Do you have Ham Radio friends?
    It's extremely easy to ask one of your neighbours if you can have a quick check to see if their fiber router box is causing RFI
    Any of your club members will be able to assist you here with attaching a very low gain antenna to a portable receiver to confirm it is the box at the end of the fiber cable causing the issue.

    You will need to prove that the box in each house is causing you interference.
    You can then bring this to the next level with Comreg
    Portable am radio, nothing special.


  • #26
    The_Rev
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 100 ✭✭The_Rev


    ok


  • #27
    Bongalongherb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,766 ✭✭✭Bongalongherb


    aiden007 wrote: »
    (Radiation in the air??)FIber optic not meant to interfere with anything, why is noise level off the scale since install, worried about radiation coming from these lines and possible hidden health risks.

    I use the Kenwood R-2000 for high frequency and I am in an urban area with plenty of fibre optics around and I don't get much interference from Fibre or all of this wireless noise. Propagation has been very bad since over a week now and I found the noise level very high, but 2/3 weeks ago the noise levels were very low. If you are positive that the fibre is the full cause of noise and you cannot do anything about it in the end, build a tuned directional loop antenna and that will cut the noise out from most appliances and fibre leaks.

    Oh, one more thing. Last month I was getting serious interference on HF all of a sudden and couldn't figure it out, but in the end after checking all mains power connections it ended up being a new power adapter for a E-cigarette that was causing extreme noise clicking and buzzing. You might want to check phone chargers as well as some of them cause serious noise.


  • #28
    The_Rev
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 100 ✭✭The_Rev


    I was hoping I could help OP track down the source of the problem rather than have to engineer around it.

    Propagation could certainly explain it. But OP does seem sure it's caused by the fiber in his area.... my hunch is its what you suggest also with what little I have to go on.
    Bongalongherb wrote: »
    I use the Kenwood R-2000 for high frequency and I am in an urban area with plenty of fibre optics around and I don't get much interference from Fibre or all of this wireless noise. Propagation has been very bad since over a week now and I found the noise level very high, but 2/3 weeks ago the noise levels were very low. If you are positive that the fibre is the full cause of noise and you cannot do anything about it in the end, build a tuned directional loop antenna and that will cut the noise out from most appliances and fibre leaks.


  • #29
    Bongalongherb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,766 ✭✭✭Bongalongherb


    I wonder has the OP tried a battery powered AM radio. Tuning it to the frequency of approximately 600KHz can help detect noise from electrical devices ?. It should easily receive where the most noise is coming from, and just turn off and unplug all electrical devices one by one and those damn noisy washing machines, talk about interference.

    Use the am radio on batteries tuned to 600KHz and use it like a noise detector, it'll help narrow it down.


  • #30
    GreenFolder2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 710 ✭✭✭GreenFolder2


    The most likely explanation is the fibre service means that some households suddenly have good broadband and are using 'home plugs' to connect things around their houses. These use frequencies that can interfere with radio.

    It could also be a faulty switch-mode power supply powering an adaptor / router spewing RF.

    There's absolutely no RF generated by the fibre installation - it's photons in glass fibre. They produce no RF of any type.


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  • #31
    Bongalongherb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,766 ✭✭✭Bongalongherb


    Also those light-dimming switches in the home can cause really bad noise as well.

    Trying to perfect signal to noise ratio can be daunting at times, but spending the time tracking it down can work out in the end. I needed to dump out a few phone adapters because they were producing very bad noise and that fixed most of the problem until I found that one of the small corner room lamps was interfering with the radio as well. Just keep looking until you can disable all noise. If living in an apartment complex, then I think it would be difficult, and that is where a directional loop antenna would come in handy, as well as transmitting on low power unless using a very good variable capacitor then higher power would be grand.


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