How much would you give up for a better society?

hytrogen · 20-10-2016 07:49PM

I'm happy with the price of the multimodal commuter ticket, as well as the cycle to work scheme. I think they're appropriately priced to contribute to the grander scheme of things. And they are an optional "tax" that guarantees funds towards public transport annually. I'd say if every employee in Dublin bought that annual commuter ticket there would be a hell of a lot more in the kitty to fix our transport needs inside the m50.
In terms of healthcare, I don't think we'll ever find sufficient funds to tackle homelessness & drug problems, sometimes it's inherent sadly. However through education, sport & entrepreneurialism there's a chance that could change

FTA69 · 20-10-2016 07:50PM

Butters1979 wrote: »

Maybe we gave less child support to junkies they wouldn't see having kids in the first place as another whelfare check.

What Americanised rubbish is this?

Junkies having kids to get a "welfare check". Jesus like. You don't know what you're on about.

Your Face · 20-10-2016 07:58PM

What an idiotic post OP.

Butters1979 · 20-10-2016 08:00PM

FTA69 wrote: »

What Americanised rubbish is this?

Junkies having kids to get a "welfare check". Jesus like. You don't know what you're on about.

American? Explain that comment?
If you think they're aren't people out there who have kids for the extra income or the push up the housing list you don't know what you're on about. I've met people who have openly admitted this.

Edit: do you think my opinion is American or this stuff only happens in America?

Right2Write · 20-10-2016 08:01PM

FTA69 wrote: »

What Americanised rubbish is this?

Junkies having kids to get a "welfare check". Jesus like. You don't know what you're on about.

SO worked with 'disadvantaged youth' in County Dublin. Says that the priority for many older teenage girls was to get pregnant, so that they may make a start on the housing list etc. and the various other social welfare benefits that flow from having children whilst having no income.

I don't blame them for this - they are making a solid economic choice based on the system and supports that society provides.

wakka12 · 20-10-2016 08:06PM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

You make a choice to take heroin, I'd not be prepared to give as much of the steam of my piss to help anyone taking it.

Its not quite as simple as that. Most heroin addicts are born into a part of society where its more normalised and the detrimental effects arent as well appreciated . If some of your middle class friends or family made the mistake Im sure you'd be more sympathetic to heroin users. Everyone makes mistakes, heroin is a big mistake. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be helped

20-10-2016 08:08PM

Butters1979 wrote: »

American? Explain that comment?
If you think they're aren't people out there who have kids for the extra income or the push up the housing list you don't know what you're on about. I've met people who have openly admitted this.

Edit: do you think my opinion is American or this stuff only happens in America?

Welfare check is American spelling and possibly even just an Americanism in general

Butters1979 · 20-10-2016 08:11PM

bluewolf wrote: »

Welfare check is American spelling and possibly even just an Americanism in general

Welfare is not an American word or a spelling. It's also nothing to do with the point.

Dr Crayfish · 20-10-2016 08:12PM

Right2Write wrote: »

SO worked with 'disadvantaged youth' in County Dublin. Says that the priority for many older teenage girls was to get pregnant, so that they may make a start on the housing list etc. and the various other social welfare benefits that flow from having children whilst having no income.

I don't blame them for this - they are making a solid economic choice based on the system and supports that society provides.

If they do this they're doing it because they don't know any better. Their parents did it and so forth. I would have thought helping these people, the less educated and poorer people, would results in more of them choosing a different life, as they'd be aware of other options.

Hammer89 · 20-10-2016 08:13PM

toptom wrote: »

Its in the breeding you see, Bad parents have bad kids, And the dealers in their estates get them hooked young

You don't get hooked on heroin unless you use it as a means of escape I don't think.

Why do you think the hundreds of thousands of people on morphine - a stronger substance than street heroin - at this very moment will not become junkies as soon as they're released from hospital? Because a huge amount of them weren't the victims of some sort of trauma, be it childhood abuse or neglect. They don't need opiates in their life. But the ones who do are scumbags? I'll probably get banned here but you're a bigger scumbag if that's your genuine opinion. It's so ridiculously offensive.

Butters1979 · 20-10-2016 08:20PM

Hammer89 wrote: »

You don't get hooked on heroin unless you use it as a means of escape I don't think.

Why do you think the hundreds of thousands of people on morphine - a stronger substance than street heroin - at this very moment will not become junkies as soon as they're released from hospital? Because a huge amount of them weren't the victims of some sort of trauma, be it childhood abuse or neglect. They don't need opiates in their life. But the ones who do are scumbags? I'll probably get banned here but you're a bigger scumbag if that's your genuine opinion. It's so ridiculously offensive.

Someone with a different opinion than you? Welcome to real life. People take drugs for all sorts of reasons. Not all our victims. And not all victims take heroine. Stop blanket excusing all drug addicts as if it's everyone's fault but their own.

foggy_lad · 20-10-2016 08:23PM

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

The story of the homeless couple in the Phoenix Park and the horrible attitudes of people got me thinking...
If we could pump money into efficient health services and the facilities to deal with homelessness, and the huge heroin problem in Ireland (well Dublin anyway), and better facilities for rehabilitating criminals perhaps to a Scandinavian model standard, and Public Transport links, what percentage of your net wages would you be willing to give up?

Nothing, absolutely nothing and if I could stop existing funds being wasted on junkies and convicted violent criminals I would gladly do so.

20-10-2016 08:26PM

Butters1979 wrote: »

Welfare is not an American word or a spelling. It's also nothing to do with the point.

Check is ...
Which is probably why FTA said it

Dr Crayfish · 20-10-2016 08:27PM

foggy_lad wrote: »

Nothing, absolutely nothing and if I could stop existing funds being wasted on junkies and convicted violent criminals I would gladly do so.

I really hope you never have a kid who ends up in a bad situation and becomes an alcoholic or a drug addict. Having a parent like yourself would only make her situation far, far worse.

Surreptitious · 20-10-2016 08:28PM

Who is the heroine and why does everyone keep taking her?

me_right_one · 20-10-2016 08:31PM

I'd give my life. Hence why I joined the defence forces at a young age. If Russia or england or Isis ever try to set foot here, I will die protecting the junkies and sheltered naifs living on this island. The point is, they're our junkies and sheltered naifs. We live here together whether we like it or not, and until everybody is at least prepared to give the ultimate sacrifice, then we will never have an equal society.

Butters1979 · 20-10-2016 08:32PM

bluewolf wrote: »

Check is ...
Which is probably why FTA said it

Ah. Cheque. I get it now. My argument is invalid.

Hammer89 · 20-10-2016 08:34PM

Butters1979 wrote: »

Someone with a different opinion than you? Welcome to real life. People take drugs for all sorts of reasons. Not all our victims. And not all victims take heroine. Stop blanket excusing all drug addicts as if it's everyone's fault but their own.

What part of his post is opinionated?

The trouble here is what he said isn't an opinion - it's factually untrue. Would it be an opinion if he said Tottenham won the Premier League last season, or if I said the Vietnam war took place in Sligo? No. It's simply not true and neither is what your man said.

To answer the OP's question, I wouldn't mind an extra tax hit if the money was spent on an empathy course for Butters and his pal.

FURET · 20-10-2016 08:35PM

How about junkies give up junk in order to create a better society.

In Ireland we have a welfare state. No one need be homeless or hungry. Everyone is equal before the law.

The state is not competent enough to remedy every failure of personal responsibility, nor should we be coerced to assist, which is what you're driving at.

foggy_lad · 20-10-2016 08:40PM

People need to take responsibility for their own actions and addictions. Throwing resources at such people to make their lives better is only facilitating their drug/gambling/alcohol abuse.

Harvey Normal · 20-10-2016 08:41PM

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

I'm not sure you got the point of my thread. To help others, the needy in our society, and to improve services in general, would you be willing to give up some more of your salary if you knew it would be spent wisely?

If it was spent wisely we could pay less tax and get better services.

bisounours · 20-10-2016 08:41PM

The crux of the matter here is there is no guarantee the right framework will be put in place to ensure funds will go to helping the homeless, the junkies, better healthcare and public transport. Ireland has one of the highest levels of income tax in the countries I've worked in (6) and has average if not sub- average services. I would want to see government expenditure reform prior to having my taxes upped.

Holograph · 20-10-2016 08:42PM

Butters1979 wrote: »

Maybe we gave less child support to junkies they wouldn't see having kids in the first place as another whelfare check.

I agree not all heroin addicts are victims (but some are) however I don't think a reduction in child support would make a difference to the number of children born to people who are too wasted to use contraception.

It might make a difference to the number of children of non drug addicts though.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 20-10-2016 08:46PM

This is a good question that has me flummoxed. I've un-begrudgingly paid taxes, on a good wage, for over 50 years and at times those taxes have been huge compared to today's rates. I've accepted cuts in local services and spent many years involved with voluntary groups in the hope that it would help build a just and equal society. But, I honestly wonder if anything more from me will actually lead to what seems a utopian vision of society. I don't think such a society exists or could exist. So, how much more would I give up? Probably nothing until I can see that it will actually achieve something.

Capt'n Midnight · 20-10-2016 08:47PM

62 people own the same as half the world, reveals Oxfam

The Oxfam report An Economy for the 1%, shows that the wealth of the poorest half of the world’s population has fallen by a trillion dollars since 2010, a drop of 38 percent. This has occurred despite the global population increasing by around 400 million people during that period. Meanwhile, the wealth of the richest 62 has increased by more than half a trillion dollars to $1.76tr.

Annual income of richest 100 people enough to end global poverty four times over

The $240 billion net income in 2012 of the richest 100 billionaires would be enough to make extreme poverty history four times over, according Oxfam’s report

So $60Bn would end global poverty.
It could be raised by the richest 62 people paying 12.4% more tax for one year on their capital gains. It wouldn't make them poorer, it would just slow down their accumulation of unearned wealth for a short time.

FURET · 20-10-2016 08:52PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

62 people own the same as half the world, reveals Oxfam

Annual income of richest 100 people enough to end global poverty four times over

So $60Bn would end global poverty.
It could be raised by the richest 62 people paying 12.4% more tax for one year on their capital gains. It wouldn't make them poorer, it would just slow down their accumulation of unearned wealth for a short time.

That is very naive. A lot of poverty is behavior driven, culture-driven even. The only people who can fix it are the societies and individuals themselves, not robbing 62 people out of 7 billion.

20-10-2016 08:52PM

If used correctly and efficiently, it might.
I suppose everyone's problem here is that the likelihood of that seems low

Wanderer78 · 20-10-2016 08:57PM

disturbingly, it looks like many on this forum dont understand the complexity of mental health issues at all!

why should we pay more taxes? many people are paying a lot of taxes already, particularly the working classes. michael hudson is bang on in saying the FIRE sector is a parasite on society. i would also include large corporations in this. these industries are sucking wealth away from us, sometimes by complex means. oh and neoliberalism isnt working!

JustTheOne · 20-10-2016 09:00PM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

disturbingly, it looks like many on this forum dont understand the complexity of mental health issues at all!

why should we pay more taxes? many people are paying a lot of taxes already, particularly the working classes. michael hudson is bang on in saying the FIRE sector is a parasite on society. i would also include large corporations in this. these industries are sucking wealth away from us, sometimes by complex means. oh and neoliberalism isnt working!

The working class in this country pay little to no tax? What are you on about?

It was shown last week the middle-class pay the burden of tax in this country.

Wanderer78 · 20-10-2016 09:02PM

JustTheOne wrote: »

The working class in this country pay little to no tax? What are you on about?

It was shown last week the middle-class pay the burden of tax in this country.

'working classes'!

How much would you give up for a better society?

Comments