How much would you give up for a better society?

Dr Crayfish · 20-10-2016 07:03PM #1

The story of the homeless couple in the Phoenix Park and the horrible attitudes of people got me thinking...
If we could pump money into efficient health services and the facilities to deal with homelessness, and the huge heroin problem in Ireland (well Dublin anyway), and better facilities for rehabilitating criminals perhaps to a Scandinavian model standard, and Public Transport links, what percentage of your net wages would you be willing to give up?
I'm going to say 10% myself, and I'd probably be willing to do more if that was the general consensus. Most of us spend a lot of money on crap we don't need like take aways and meals in restaurants and gadgets etc and stuff people didn't need or want 30 years ago.

I'm well aware if we paid more tax our inept powers that be would just have it magically disappear while nothing would improve, but say we outsourced our Government to PWC or Accenture, proper professionals who get things done and account for their spending, not muppets like Jackie Healy Rae and senior Civil Servants who stumbled their way up the ranks, would you be willing to sacrifice some of your salary?

Galwayguy35 · 20-10-2016 07:13PM

I'd pay more tax to give working people who have to pay for everything more services like free health care, refuse collection etc.

The people you mention are already having money allocated to help them out, more than enough I'd suggest.

gifted · 20-10-2016 07:14PM

Will I just bend over even more??

Atlantic Dawn · 20-10-2016 07:18PM

You make a choice to take heroin, I'd not be prepared to give as much of the steam of my piss to help anyone taking it.

Dr Crayfish · 20-10-2016 07:20PM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

You make a choice to take heroin, I'd not be prepared to give as much of the steam of my piss to help anyone taking it.

You don't make a choice to be born into squalor in Inner City Dublin with parents who don't care about you and no opportunities. Why aren't kids in Blackrock College on heroin I wonder?

milehip · 20-10-2016 07:21PM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

You make a choice to take heroin, I'd not be prepared to give as much of the steam of my piss to help anyone taking it.

Dead right hang'em and flog'em I say!!!

gifted · 20-10-2016 07:21PM

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

You don't make a choice to be born into squalor in Inner City Dublin with parents who don't care about you and no opportunities. Why aren't kids in Blackrock College on heroin I wonder?

Because there parents didn't make a choice to use heroin by any chance?

Dr Crayfish · 20-10-2016 07:22PM

gifted wrote: »

Because there parents didn't make a choice to use heroin by any chance?

Because they were from an affluent background with lots of opportunities. How sheltered is your existence?

Permabear · 20-10-2016 07:23PM

This post has been deleted.

zSparc · 20-10-2016 07:23PM

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Most of us spend a lot of money on crap we don't need

I already give up my life, family, free time = work > I earn > I pay taxes > I spend the rest on whatever I please.

gifted · 20-10-2016 07:24PM

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Because they were from an affluent background with lots of opportunities. How sheltered is your existence?

So you have to come from an affluent background to say no?

Dr Crayfish · 20-10-2016 07:25PM

gifted wrote: »

So you have to come from an affluent background to say no?

Answer me this - why do you think people from poor areas are more likely to take heroin?

Bigby · 20-10-2016 07:27PM

I get up at 7 every morning to go to work. I got €3.10 per week extra from this year's budget. A lad down the road hasn't worked in 8 years and he gets €5 per week extra for doing absolutely nothing, he'll also get a Christmas "bonus".

They can go fcuk off, they get too much as it is. Sick of paying for other idiots' bad decisions in life.

toptom · 20-10-2016 07:29PM

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Answer me this - why do you think people from poor areas are more likely to take heroin?

Its in the breeding you see, Bad parents have bad kids, And the dealers in their estates get them hooked young

Galwayguy35 · 20-10-2016 07:30PM

And your answer OP is to try and squeeze more tax out of us, sorry but that well is gone dry.

PARlance · 20-10-2016 07:32PM

50% of 4 f**ks.

Dr Crayfish · 20-10-2016 07:32PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

And your answer OP is to try and squeeze more tax out of us, sorry but that well is gone dry.

I'm not sure you got the point of my thread. To help others, the needy in our society, and to improve services in general, would you be willing to give up some more of your salary if you knew it would be spent wisely?

Atticus Jung · 20-10-2016 07:33PM

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

The story of the homeless couple in the Phoenix Park and the horrible attitudes of people got me thinking...
If we could pump money into efficient health services and the facilities to deal with homelessness, and the huge heroin problem in Ireland (well Dublin anyway), and better facilities for rehabilitating criminals perhaps to a Scandinavian model standard, and Public Transport links, what percentage of your net wages would you be willing to give up?
I'm going to say 10% myself, and I'd probably be willing to do more if that was the general consensus. Most of us spend a lot of money on crap we don't need like take aways and meals in restaurants and gadgets etc and stuff people didn't need or want 30 years ago.

I'm well aware if we paid more tax our inept powers that be would just have it magically disappear while nothing would improve, but say we outsourced our Government to PWC or Accenture, proper professionals who get things done and account for their spending, not muppets like Jackie Healy Rae and senior Civil Servants who stumbled their way up the ranks, would you be willing to sacrifice some of your salary?

This is the biggest hurdle with this scenario. If that got sorted id be more than happy to give up a significantly bigger chunk.

Love the idea of outsourcing the government:D.

Right2Write · 20-10-2016 07:33PM

In theory, I'd be prepared to share more of our family's assets and wealth. But that would be predicated on everyone in society and I mean everyone (barring those who unable due to genuine disability or ill health) putting their best foot forward and making an active effort to contribute to society.

In practice though, there are people who are prepared to pay their way and those that want to live off the efforts of others. Now you can argue as to why they do this, but it matters not why because it seems to be part of the human condition.

Dr Crayfish · 20-10-2016 07:33PM

Bigby wrote: »

Sick of paying for other idiots' bad decisions in life.

Homelessness and heroin addiction are down to bad decisions? I feel like I'm at a Donald Trump rally here ffs.

gifted · 20-10-2016 07:34PM

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Answer me this - why do you think people from poor areas are more likely to take heroin?

I've no idea and tbh I don't care...I work.I pay my bills I try and keep a house over my head and I work I pay my bills I try and keep a house over my head ..you get what I'm saying? Same thing over and over again but I want to do it...it's called real life... why should I give up some of my hard earned wages for someone else..I pay enough tax as it is.

Dr Crayfish · 20-10-2016 07:37PM

gifted wrote: »

I've no idea and tbh I don't care...I work.I pay my bills I try and keep a house over my head and I work I pay my bills I try and keep a house over my head ..you get what I'm saying? Same thing over and over again but I want to do it...it's called real life... why should I give up some of my hard earned wages for someone else..I pay enough tax as it is.

Fair enough. I feel empathy for those in dire situations, and feel guilty when I'm buying crap sometimes that I don't really need. I wish we could improve the standard of living for those worse off and I'd like to see some new ways of dealing with the problems in our society.

Butters1979 · 20-10-2016 07:38PM

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

You don't make a choice to be born into squalor in Inner City Dublin with parents who don't care about you and no opportunities. Why aren't kids in Blackrock College on heroin I wonder?

Why isn't everyone born into squalor in inner city Dublin on heroine? Some get dealt a more difficult hand. Some rise above it and some use it as an excuse.

Galwayguy35 · 20-10-2016 07:40PM

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

I'm not sure you got the point of my thread. To help others, the needy in our society, and to improve services in general, would you be willing to give up some more of your salary if you knew it would be spent wisely?

I do get the point and I answered it, a shedload of money already goes to the people you mention so maybe it's just that the money isn't being managed properly or else maybe some people just don't want to be helped.

As I said I'd give up more tax to make life easier on all of us who actually contribute to the running of the country.

Dr Crayfish · 20-10-2016 07:40PM

Butters1979 wrote: »

Why isn't everyone born into squalor in inner city Dublin on heroine? Some get dealt a more difficult hand. Some rise above it and some use it as an excuse.

Have you seen the state of some of the junkie parents dragging their kids around buying benzos off other junkies in the morning?
If you were that kid are you really sure you'd "rise above it"?

Dr Crayfish · 20-10-2016 07:41PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

As I said I'd give up more tax to make life easier on all of us who actually contribute to the running of the country.

Ok. Would you give up money for a world class health care system and better public transport then?

4068ac1elhodqr · 20-10-2016 07:43PM

I’d contribute the ‘currency of ideas’
- for the proper utilisation of ‘existing funds, generated from taxation’.

One idea or solution, could be to buy a couple of very large ships, moored up at the docks.
One for the sellers, and one for the buyers of specific drugs.
Not prison ships per say, more so ‘out of the way’ dedicated rehabilitation and treatment facilities.

When those guests have received the proper level of psycho-re-orientation, cognitive therapy, healthcare and life skills.
Then they’d be ready, and perhaps even ‘very eager’ to re-join and more effectively contribute to society.

Right2Write · 20-10-2016 07:43PM

Human societies are usually unequal, there are 'haves' and 'have nots' eventually in every system.. What has changed in the last few decades is that we offer more supports in Western Europe to the 'have nots'. They are less likely now to die in disease and squalor at a young age. This could be seen as a good thing. It can also be seen as detrimental as it can prolong some peoples suffering. In the same way as modern medicine can prolong an elderly person's life, even though their quality of life may be greatly diminished and they might be gladder to have simply succumbed. Life is unequal and our efforts to equalise it are fraught with unintended consequences.

Butters1979 · 20-10-2016 07:43PM

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

I'm not sure you got the point of my thread. To help others, the needy in our society, and to improve services in general, would you be willing to give up some more of your salary if you knew it would be spent wisely?

No. We spend enough on welfare and aid. If you think more is needed you can voluntarily give more rather than expecting everyone to pay even more out of what they've earned. Add more tax and peole with the ability to leave will leave. Any more welfare and peole with little interest in working won't. You can't spread wealth evenly. It doesn't make everybody rich. It makes every body poor.

Galwayguy35 · 20-10-2016 07:44PM

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Ok. Would you give up money for a world class health care system and better public transport then?

Yes, because that would benefit all the citizens of the country.

Butters1979 · 20-10-2016 07:44PM

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Have you seen the state of some of the junkie parents dragging their kids around buying benzos off other junkies in the morning?
If you were that kid are you really sure you'd "rise above it"?

Maybe we gave less child support to junkies they wouldn't see having kids in the first place as another whelfare check.

How much would you give up for a better society?

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