UK Votes to leave EU

Fratton Fred · 18-10-2016 09:36AM

Peregrinus wrote: »

From whoever may threaten it. It's happened before, after all.

I accept, of course, that in current political conditions an immediate threat is unlikely. But "current political conditions" are unlikely to persist indefinitely - they never do. And the UK acknowledges an obligation to defend the Falklands, which I think makes it reasonable to measure their military and naval capacity against the ability to do that.

It's all a bit irrelevant, of course, in a thread about Brexit. It's not as though Brexit is going to enhance or degrade their capacity to defend the Falklands in any material way.

current political conditions in the South Atlantic might change, but Argentina's ability to invade the Falkland Islands is pretty much non existent. If they suddenly became wealthy (which would negate a lot of the reason for them to invade) they are still years away from having a force that could even threaten to existing presence in the Falklands.

Fratton Fred · 18-10-2016 09:37AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Hadn't realised the British navy was in such a state until Ii read up on it last night.

yawn

First Up · 18-10-2016 09:48AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

yawn

Boaty McBoatface will sort all that.

FrancieBrady · 18-10-2016 09:49AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

yawn

Might bore you, but it is another area a Britain going it alone would feel duty bound to invest heavily in, if the money is there.

Ships frequently malfunctioning at sea and only 13 naval vessels capable of frontline action? Where did it all go wrong Horatio?

steddyeddy · 18-10-2016 09:50AM

There seems to be a major split in the UK between the 52% that vited leave and the 48% that voted stay. Tensions are rising with the brexiters shouting "we won get over it" to drown out the economic reality they face.

First Up · 18-10-2016 09:51AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Might bore you, but it is another area a Britain going it alone would feel duty bound to invest heavily in, if the money is there.

Ships frequently malfunctioning at sea and only 13 naval vessels capable of frontline action? Where did it all go wrong Horatio?

Yes, and if Trump gets in, the US will be too busy guarding against invasion by the United Nations to have any spare resources to help.

Fratton Fred · 18-10-2016 09:52AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Might bore you, but it is another area a Britain going it alone would feel duty bound to invest heavily in, if the money is there.

Ships frequently malfunctioning at sea and only 13 naval vessels capable of frontline action? Where did it all go wrong Horatio?

it isn't going it alone, it is a member of NATO, regardless, when was the last time a ship saw "Frontline" action. despite what you republicans think, it is 2016, 1916.

As I said, it is like York City calling Man United crap.

First Up · 18-10-2016 09:54AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

it isn't going it alone, it is a member of NATO, regardless, when was the last time a ship saw "Frontline" action. despite what you republicans think, it is 2016, 1916.

As I said, it is like York City calling Man United crap.

Except that some Brexiteers seem to prefer the way the world was in 1916 - or, even worse, think it still is.

Fratton Fred · 18-10-2016 09:58AM

First Up wrote: »

Except that some Brexiteers seem to prefer the way the world was in 1916 - or, even worse, think it still is.

that's nice for them, maybe they could bring back comely maidens dancing at the crossroads.

Which is another interesting point, after Brexit, i wonder if the UK will be as keen to take in the thousands of Irish women who travel to the UK every year for abortions, because the Irish government does not have the cajones to legislate responsibly for it, or if the RAF will still be doing the job the Irish air corp should be doing?

FrancieBrady · 18-10-2016 09:59AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

it isn't going it alone, it is a member of NATO, regardless, when was the last time a ship saw "Frontline" action. despite what you republicans think, it is 2016, 1916.

As I said, it is like York City calling Man United crap.

So you don't need frontline ships in the modern world?
Did anyone tell America, China, Russia and the French that?

FrancieBrady · 18-10-2016 10:02AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

that's nice for them, maybe they could bring back comely maidens dancing at the crossroads.

Which is another interesting point, after Brexit, i wonder if the UK will be as keen to take in the thousands of Irish women who travel to the UK every year for abortions, because the Irish government does not have the cajones to legislate responsibly for it, or if the RAF will still be doing the job the Irish air corp should be doing?

Full on Mary now in defence, because somebody has a few questions about the decline of the British Navy.

Those women could go to France or Germany Fred...Ryanair, ever hear of it? It's 2016 not 1916.

Peregrinus · 18-10-2016 10:03AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

it isn't going it alone, it is a member of NATO . . .

Well, on a nitpick, NATO treaty obligations don't extend to helping the UK defend the Falklands. As we saw back in '82.

There is an issue here. As a relic of its imperial history, the UK has defence commitments all around the globe and, realistically, it doesn't have the capacity to meet those commitments if they were ever called upon. It relies instead on political and diplomatic work to defend the interests of its colonial possessions and their inhabitants and, where that isn't sufficient, it withdraws gracefully. As we saw in Hong Kong back in '97.

Honestly, that's a sensible strategy. Being realistic, it's probably the only feasible strategy open to them. And it's wholly irrelevant to Brexit.

Now, can we get back to Brexit?

Peregrinus · 18-10-2016 10:12AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Which is another interesting point, after Brexit, i wonder if the UK will be as keen to take in the thousands of Irish women who travel to the UK every year for abortions, because the Irish government does not have the cajones to legislate responsibly for it, or if the RAF will still be doing the job the Irish air corp should be doing?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Those women could go to France or Germany Fred...Ryanair, ever hear of it? It's 2016 not 1916.

Neither France nor Germany has the UK's permissive abortion regime. In fact people come from both France and Germany to have abortions in the UK.

It's unlikely that Brexit will affect this. People already come from non-EU countries to have abortions in the UK, and there's no reason to think that they'll be unable to do so after Brexit.

FrancieBrady · 18-10-2016 10:20AM

Peregrinus wrote: »

Neither France nor Germany has the UK's permissive abortion regime. In fact people come from both France and Germany to have abortions in the UK.

It's unlikely that Brexit will affect this. People already come from non-EU countries to have abortions in the UK, and there's no reason to think that they'll be unable to do so after Brexit.

Yes, I was too quick to riposte to Fred's 'look over there' deflection.

FrancieBrady · 18-10-2016 10:24AM

Peregrinus wrote: »

And it's wholly irrelevant to Brexit.

I don't agree.
Brexit leaves Britain in a rather sticky quandary when it comes to defence too.

As previously mentioned, the United States, the driving force behind NATO, has issued a rather stern request to member states that they increase they maintain defense budgets that total at least two percent of their GDP. Such a call signals a growing American concern that the United States is becoming unwilling, or projects that it will at some point be unable, to serve as the bulwark for European defense. In light of a British withdrawal from the EU, which has allowed the UK to disperse a portion of its defense costs and burdens amongst its fellow member states, one wonders in the face of the ever-present threat of austerity cuts to essential domestic programs, if it would be able to maintain an adequate level of defense spending without membership in the EU.

http://intpolicydigest.org/2016/06/22/britain-s-military-legacy-and-the-impact-of-brexit-upon-british-defense-policy/

They have an awful lot of money to spend just to catch up nevermind maintain from what I am reading.

catbear · 18-10-2016 10:47AM

Well if the UK is struggling to defend itself we could lend it a few of our kites.

Everytime a russian plane gets close to our airspace we just send up our kite with "Welcome, ceol agus craic below" printed on it and they land for a session and then fly away a little more tipsy than when they landed.

The UK could print "need a Nissan, get them while they're going".

steddyeddy · 18-10-2016 11:36AM

John Wight, who campaigned against Scottish Independence prior to Brexit, now thinks that indepence would be the antidote to the disturbing politics of Brexit. Partitioning the UK seems extreme but maybe a divide would benefit Scotland.

http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/12512554

Fratton Fred · 18-10-2016 12:02PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I don't agree.
Brexit leaves Britain in a rather sticky quandary when it comes to defence too.

http://intpolicydigest.org/2016/06/22/britain-s-military-legacy-and-the-impact-of-brexit-upon-british-defense-policy/

They have an awful lot of money to spend just to catch up nevermind maintain from what I am reading.

Britain is perfectly capable of meeting it's obligations, even more so when the carriers are commissioned.

Fratton Fred · 18-10-2016 12:03PM

catbear wrote: »

Well if the UK is struggling to defend itself we could lend it a few of our kites.

Everytime a russian plane gets close to our airspace we just send up our kite with "Welcome, ceol agus craic below" printed on it and they land for a session and then fly away a little more tipsy than when they landed.

The UK could print "need a Nissan, get them while they're going".

Kites? when did the Irish defence force become so well equipped?

steddyeddy · 18-10-2016 12:04PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Kites? when did the Irish defence force become so well equipped?

Since I left the FCA

catbear · 18-10-2016 12:13PM

Might be getting a few blimps cheaply off the brits in their closing down sale, the hot air comes free.

Fratton Fred · 18-10-2016 12:22PM

catbear wrote: »

Might be getting a few blimps cheaply off the brits in their closing down sale, the hot air comes free.

plenty of hot air on this thread from the little Irelanders.

wes · 18-10-2016 12:30PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

plenty of hot air on this thread from the little Irelanders.

Last I checked, no increase in Irish people running around beating up Brits. However, we see Brexiters increasingly attack foreigners or anyone seen to be one over in the UK. A lot of people scared over there, due to the unleashed hatred and Xenophobia.

Fratton Fred · 18-10-2016 12:42PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

plenty of hot air on this thread from the little Irelanders.

wes wrote: »

Last I checked, no increase in Irish people running around beating up Brits. However, we see Brexiters increasingly attack foreigners or anyone seen to be one over in the UK. A lot of people scared over there, due to the unleashed hatred and Xenophobia.

yep

catbear · 18-10-2016 12:45PM

I reckon if Brexit stalls they'll end up with troops on the streets.

kunst nugget · 18-10-2016 12:51PM

catbear wrote: »

I reckon if Brexit stalls they'll end up with troops on the streets.

Dr. Peter Venkman: This city is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.
Mayor: What do you mean, “biblical”?
Dr Ray Stantz: What he means is Old Testament, Mr. Mayor, real wrath-of-God type stuff.
Dr. Peter Venkman: Exactly.
Dr Ray Stantz: Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies. Rivers and seas boiling.
Dr. Egon Spengler: Forty years of darkness. Earthquakes, volcanoes…
Winston Zeddemore: The dead rising from the grave.
Dr. Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together – mass hysteria.

It's like Ghostbusters predicted Brexit…

Iwasfrozen · 18-10-2016 01:00PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It is mine and many others belief that the UK is not averse to overreacting/starting a war (witness WMD and The Malvinas) to distract their electorate.

Argentina invaded the Falkands. They started the war and they should be thankful Thatcher wasn't the sort to use trident.

catbear · 18-10-2016 01:12PM

Yeah, as much as the brits are effers as imperialists I don't believe the argentinian claim has much merit. The brits were exploiting it before argentina was a nation.
Plus there are still lots of territorial entanglements left over when Spain lost control in south america.

nah, the falklands was a distraction vehicle for the junta.

Just like how the british establishment tells the people they're shafting that its the EUs fault. Who will they blame now? Oh yes, outsiders like the polish shop owners in coventry.

FrancieBrady · 18-10-2016 01:24PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Britain is perfectly capable of meeting it's obligations, even more so when the carriers are commissioned.

Yet more whimsy in the face of a link that points out what is facing the British. 'Nah, Brits are top dog'.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Argentina invaded the Falkands. They started the war and they should be thankful Thatcher wasn't the sort to use trident.

Thatcher was almost talked out of responding. She decided to and revived a flagging career.
The potential for that kind of distraction to be 'arranged' again (prior to the Argentinian invasion, Britain dropped it's presence in the SA, as they have done again) is high.

As they used say, if Kate Adie moves into your holiday hotel, start getting nervous.

wes · 18-10-2016 01:25PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

yep

Denial not just a river in Egypt:
Hate crimes soared by 41% after Brexit vote, official figures reveal

Ignore the facts all you like. Doesn't change them. No equivalent against Brits in Ireland or any where else in Europe.

UK Votes to leave EU

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