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2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

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Comments

  • #4142
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    Yes as I regard him to speak for the majority of working Americans...

    I just dont get that at all. What has Donald trump ever done in his entire life for working Americans?

    It doesn't make any sense.


  • #4143
    meepins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 447 ✭✭meepins


    InTheTrees wrote: »
    I just dont get that at all. What has Donald trump ever done in his entire life for working Americans?

    It doesn't make any sense.

    Gainful employment?


  • #4144
    aloyisious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,360 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    He is supported by the lovers of the US constitution while Hillary is a war monger and her commitment to America is suspect. The mysterious deleted e-mail scandal is proof to a lot of Americans that she has a secret past which has yet to be uncovered. This election cycle has already brought to light the sordid sex life of Bill Clinton.

    It'd be interesting to see what Don might do, if president, when faced with the interests of the US - which include defending the constitution - being put at risk by foreign adventurers. Would his use of U.S military forces and weaponry to end the threat cause him to be labelled a war mongerer?

    Hillary, as Sec of State, does not control or use the US Military. That's her boss's - Barak Obama - prerogative and duty, through HIS Sec of Defence. Hillary can advise her boss on the possible diplomatic repercussions of using US Military Pers and force abroad.

    The deleted Emails seem (on the face of it) to be, as they're deleted, beyond recovery and their contents uncoverable. I don't know if any of the Wikileaks emails were ones hacked from Hillary's stash before the deletions took place. I'm also confused as to how many emails were deleted as Don, at the last debate, mentioned two numbers: 33,000 and 39,000 od emails.

    Bill's admitted sex life has been known about for years, from before the impeachment processes for perjury began while he was the sitting president in the late 90's.


  • #4145
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    meepins wrote: »
    Gainful employment?

    Uhm..

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trump-claims-he-employs-many-people-at-honolulu-hotel/

    http://www.miamiherald.com/entertainment/ent-columns-blogs/jose-lambiet/article91353232.html

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/06/09/donald-trump-unpaid-bills-republican-president-laswuits/85297274/

    http://time.com/4465744/donald-trump-undocumented-workers/

    ...it's mixed.


  • #4146
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    Trump has appealed to the evangelicals on one extreme...

    The only reason the religious right are sticking with trump is the hope he'll appoint antiabortion supreme court justices. That's all. Thats the only reason. And that support is fraying. They could well be the " silent voters " who actually vote against trump on the day.


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  • #4147
    Black Swan
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,769 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Overheal wrote: »
    He'll expatriate to Dubai where we can belittle woman and shield his money from the IRS more.
    In early to mid-2015 Donald Trump was welcome in Dubia UAE, he and other Arab investors were building the largest golf and resort complex in Dubai, but not now. They removed the TRUMP name from the Dubai resort. And according to a UAE grad student I'm tutoring at my university across the pond (who has a diplomatic passport), Donald Trump is no longer welcome after his anti-Muslim statements. Such statements are not just unwelcome in the Middle East. It should be remembered that Scotland stripped Donald Trump of his honorary doctorate and his Business Ambassador title December 2015 after his anti-Muslim statements. Would Trump also claim that the UK media, Gordon University, and Edinburgh government had joined the "conspiracy" to rig and fix the 2016 presidential election too?


  • #4148
    meepins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 447 ✭✭meepins


    Overheal wrote: »
    Uhm..

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trump-claims-he-employs-many-people-at-honolulu-hotel/

    http://www.miamiherald.com/entertainment/ent-columns-blogs/jose-lambiet/article91353232.html

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/06/09/donald-trump-unpaid-bills-republican-president-laswuits/85297274/

    http://time.com/4465744/donald-trump-undocumented-workers/

    ...it's mixed.
    I'm not clicking your links, say what you have to say. Has he or has he not given working Americans employment in his various companies?


  • #4149
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    meepins wrote: »
    Gainful employment?

    Huh? Gainful employment?

    Until he decides he doesnt want to pay. Or until he declares bancrupcy. Or tries to bust a union.

    He represents the worst kind of selfish uncaring exploitive boss and he'd be a nightmare for working Americans.


  • #4150
    aloyisious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,360 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    Yeah those secular Muslims are being targeted by the same terrorists while the liberals choose to see them all as one community. Their are as many divisions within Islam as their is in Christianity. I don't expect either candidate to be familiar with the nuances of Islam.

    Out of interest, how can one be secular and muslim at the same time?


  • #4151
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    meepins wrote: »
    I'm not clicking your links, say what you have to say. Has he or has he not given working Americans employment in his various companies?

    I'm sorry but heavy handed union busting among low paid hotel workers doesn't qualify him as being a fav with American workers.


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  • #4152
    meepins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 447 ✭✭meepins


    InTheTrees wrote: »
    Huh? Gainful employment?

    Until he decides he doesnt want to pay. Or until he declares bancrupcy. Or tries to bust a union.

    He represents the worst kind of selfish uncaring exploitive boss and he'd be a nightmare for working Americans.
    That's some intimate knowlege you have there of Trumps business dealings, where did you get all that from?


  • #4153
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    meepins wrote: »
    I'm not clicking your links, say what you have to say. Has he or has he not given working Americans employment in his various companies?

    He has a long record of employing immigrant workers, underpaying them, and stiffing contractors.

    He also frequently licenses his Brand name to companies and hotels, etc. and actually doesn't employ or manage people at those locations, in a lot of other situations.

    So no, he doesn't have a great record of providing gainful employment to people.


  • #4154
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    meepins wrote: »
    That's some intimate knowlege you have there of Trumps business dealings, where did you get all that from?

    You're the one who didn't want to click on sources provided...


  • #4155
    Black Swan
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,769 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    Trump has appealed to the evangelicals on one extreme to the Sanders supporters on the other.
    Are you suggesting that Sanders supporters will join evangelicals to support Donald Trump? The faith-based creationist evangelicals and the highly educated, rational and evolutionary Sanders supporters? Or that the vast majority of Sanders supporters would consider voting for Donald Trump, some rich kid pampered from birth, and member of the obscenely ultra-rich 1% that Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren want to tax and were totally against?


  • #4156
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Black Swan wrote: »
    Are you suggesting that Sanders supporters will join evangelicals to support Donald Trump? The faith-based creationist evangelicals and the highly educated, rational and evolutionary Sanders supporters? Or that the vast majority of Sanders supporters would consider voting for Donald Trump, some rich kid pampered from birth, and member of the obscenely ultra-rich 1% that Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren want to tax and were totally against?

    The broader the brushstroke the more holes/streaks that appear in the argument.


  • #4157
    aloyisious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,360 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    meepins wrote: »
    I still think he will be president and it will be a remarkable achievement.
    As for him having no concrete objectives.. it doesn't get more concrete than a big wall on the border with Mexico.

    I agree with your first, if it happens. Re the wall, I can't see the Mexicans willingly building it, unless of course Don uses his presidential muscle (the military) to force it on them. That would be like presidential warmongering, something Don's supporters here object to strongly.


  • #4158
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    meepins wrote: »
    That's some intimate knowlege you have there of Trumps business dealings, where did you get all that from?

    Probably by clicking links and actually attempting to educate himself, rather than celebrating ignorance and holding off against reality, that being the inevitable humiliating defeat Trump is going to experience three and a half weeks.


  • #4159
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Probably by clicking links and actually attempting to educate himself, rather than celebrating ignorance and holding off against reality, that being the inevitable humiliating defeat Trump is going to experience three and a half weeks.

    Three weeks and a day. Plus they say the polls six days before election day are generally how it finishes up so we're looking at about a fortnight.


  • #4160
    mrkiscool2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,159 ✭✭✭mrkiscool2


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Probably by clicking links and actually attempting to educate himself, rather than celebrating ignorance and holding off against reality, that being the inevitable humiliating defeat Trump is going to experience three and a half weeks.
    Doubt it will be humiliating now. I honestly hate every single candidate for different reasons, but it won't be an 11% victory for Clinton as a lot of democratic news outlet "polls" suggest. It may be somewhere between 2-5% which, for a candidate with absolutely no political background, isn't humiliating.


  • #4161
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    mrkiscool2 wrote: »
    Doubt it will be humiliating now. I honestly hate every single candidate for different reasons, but it won't be an 11% victory for Clinton as a lot of democratic news outlet "polls" suggest. It may be somewhere between 2-5% which, for a candidate with absolutely no political background, isn't humiliating.
    I'm not that fond of Clinton myself, but my guess is she gets at least 67% of the EC votes which is all that really matters, but will also be closer to 10% of the popular vote than 5%, and might well surpass that. Trump has done an absolutely excellent job in the last month or so of mobilising his opposition, especially since the pussy incident.


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  • #4162
    Black Swan
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,769 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    meepins wrote: »
    As for him having no concrete objectives.. it doesn't get more concrete than a big wall on the border with Mexico.
    How high will be this wall be along the US borders? How many thousands of miles long? Will it have to be 45,000 feet high and surround the entire US to keep out the 5 million that mostly fly into the US and overstay their visas of the 11 million illegals currently in the US? All humour aside, you do realise that if you build a southern Trump Wall, that you may discourage many Mexican illegals from leaving the US, with a net loss of 140,000 between 2009 and 2014. Before forming an opinion as the merits of building Trump Wall, it's good to review the research information provided by the Pew Research Center regarding this issue, and not just believe what comes out of Donald Trump's unsubstantiated MOUTH.


  • #4163
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,644 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    mrkiscool2 wrote: »
    Doubt it will be humiliating now. I honestly hate every single candidate for different reasons

    It won't be humiliating for all the candidates you hate: just Donald.


  • #4164
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    mrkiscool2 wrote: »
    Doubt it will be humiliating now. I honestly hate every single candidate for different reasons, but it won't be an 11% victory for Clinton as a lot of democratic news outlet "polls" suggest. It may be somewhere between 2-5% which, for a candidate with absolutely no political background, isn't humiliating.

    The popular vote will be quite a bit narrower than the electoral votes, Trump has to fight the statistics to get past 200 EVs, much less 270 needed to win the race. Most projections put Clinton well over 300 EVs.


  • #4165
    aloyisious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,360 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Overheal wrote: »
    He also frequently licenses his Brand name to companies and hotels, etc. and actually doesn't employ or manage people at those locations, in a lot of other situations.

    So no, he doesn't have a great record of providing gainful employment to people.

    And that includes one hotel complex in Mexico, not the US, which failed and from which Don withdrew permission for his name to be used after it ran into financial trouble, then he went on to sue the LA, US, Co concerned.... Naturally enough, the complex would have employed Mexicans, as it was outside US territory.

    https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjQo8KBvODPAhXnJcAKHYfjBbwQFgggMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FTrump_Ocean_Resort_Baja_Mexico&usg=AFQjCNHasxW5tflh-LHrRG9W41bzB6afHw


  • #4166
    mrkiscool2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,159 ✭✭✭mrkiscool2


    Billy86 wrote: »
    I'm not that fond of Clinton myself, but my guess is she gets at least 67% of the EC votes which is all that really matters, but will also be closer to 10% of the popular vote than 5%, and might well surpass that. Trump has done an absolutely excellent job in the last month or so of mobilising his opposition, especially since the pussy incident.
    Eh, the highest polls are predicting around 67%, the consensus is around 55-60 of the EC votes, assuming no independents take any states and Bernie isn't wrote-in in Vermont. And yeah, it won't be anything above 10% anyway, I'm going to go maybe 5% of the popular vote win to Clinton to be fair! Don't think that Trump will win anyways!


  • #4167
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    http://fivethirtyeight.com is worth placing your bets on. It's been frighteningly accurate the last few presidential elections.


  • #4168
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    mrkiscool2 wrote: »
    Eh, the highest polls are predicting around 67%, the consensus is around 55-60 of the EC votes, assuming no independents take any states and Bernie isn't wrote-in in Vermont. And yeah, it won't be anything above 10% anyway, I'm going to go maybe 5% of the popular vote win to Clinton to be fair! Don't think that Trump will win anyways!

    Afraid not, 538.8 (who got 50 of 50 states correct in 2012, and 49 correct in 2008) has her at 63%, which is pretty much exactly what RCP has it at in their 'no toss ups' map.

    http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/2016_elections_electoral_college_map_no_toss_ups_race_changes.html

    I can't see that gap doing anything but continue to widen in the next three weeks to be honest. Trump's only real hope, not of winning because that is completely out the window, but of even just saving some face, is for him to have the most unlikely excellent performance since Old School and FOX to do him favour after favour in the final debate.


  • #4169
    aloyisious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,360 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    I'm left wondering how many republicans, usually committed to their party, will just boycott the vote in disgust over Trump and the internal party bickering. I had a look online and there is one, from Rasmussen, which, though recent seem's slightly dated.


  • #4170
    meepins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 447 ✭✭meepins


    Overheal wrote: »
    You're the one who didn't want to click on sources provided...
    I don't give clicks to mainstream media outlets when it can be avoided. They have demonstrated quite successfully that they're not trustworthy. A poll done recently by the American Press institute found only 6% of Americans had a 'great deal of confidence' in the press. It's a different story altogether on here though going by the constant stream of posts I read where people just mindlessly regurgitate their propaganda without question.


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  • #4171
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    meepins wrote: »
    I don't give clicks to mainstream media outlets when it can be avoided. They have demonstrated quite successfully that they're not trustworthy. A poll done recently by the American Press institute found only 6% of Americans had a 'great deal of confidence' in the press. It's a different story altogether on here though going by the constant stream of posts I read where people just mindlessly regurgitate their propaganda without question.
    Where do you get your news then, out of interest?


This discussion has been closed.
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