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2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

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Comments

  • #4052
    oik
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭oik


    Black Swan wrote: »
    The 2000 presidential election between GW Bush and Al Gore was so close that at the end it depended upon several recounts of butterfly ballots, dimpled chads, electronic vote flaws, late overseas ballots, etc., that resulted in roughly 500 more votes for GW Bush to win the state and finally determine the presidential election.

    bush-gore-hanging-chad-florida-570x363.jpg

    Again, missing the point. What does the closeness of the election have to do with the differences in philosophy of the candidates?


  • #4053
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    oik wrote: »
    Well that would depend on what I mean by "real opposition" wouldn't it.

    All candidates before now agree fundamentally on the basics. Free trade immigration etc.

    Previous elections the disputes were about the "how" of policy, not the what. Trump has come along and challenged the orthodoxy of American politics.

    How jesuitical of you. 'You see guys its not that I'm wrong its just that I meant what I said in this very specific way that means exactly what I want it to and therefor I'm right'.

    A bit like saying you molest women... then saying but you see I mean molest as in respect.

    Kudos again Oik.


  • #4054
    oik
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭oik


    jobbridge4life wrote: »


    That is just patently false, she stated complimented him by saying he had raised good children and that fact reflected well on him. That is one of the greatest compliments any parent could hope for.

    She didn't compliment him on his parenting skills. She complimented his children. She knew the difference


  • #4055
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    oik wrote: »
    Of course you would focus entirely on the superficial aspects of their personalities rather than their political beliefs.

    Ah here your candidate can't even focus on his own political beliefs.

    Pro abortion. Punish the women. No I didn't mean that.

    Ban muslims... no ban people from terrorist countries... BAN MUSLIMS.

    Is there one issue that Donald trump hasn't flip flopped on?


  • #4056
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    oik wrote: »
    She didn't compliment him on his parenting skills. She complimented his children. She knew the difference

    What's wrong with that. To many to compliment the children of a person who finds family import is a high compliment.


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  • #4057
    aloyisious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,361 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    oik wrote: »
    It's not always clear what Trump means when he says "rigged"

    When he refers to a "rigged system" it's usually in the context of the media and the establishment conspiring to undermine any real opposition, both himself and Bernie. If anyone's not familiar with the recent wikileaks concerning Hillary receiving debate questions ahead of time in the primaries they should look into it.

    He probably is also floating the possibility of genuine fraud, but that's not beyond the realm of possibility. If it was ever going to happen it would happen now.

    So should one think the leak disclosures assist in making for a level playing field between Hillary and Donald?


  • #4058
    oik
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭oik


    Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »
    What's wrong with that. To many to compliment the children of a person who finds family import is a high compliment.

    She didn't intend it as a compliment, that's what's wrong with it.

    She didn't say, "clearly Donald is a great parent, just look at his kids."

    She was asked to "say" something nice about him and she wouldn't because she knows it would burst the boogyman bubble she has created around him.

    If she called him passionate, it would undermine her argument that he's only out for himself.

    Basically her premise is there's nothing good about Donald Trump the person and she can't come down from that.


  • #4059
    oik
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭oik


    aloyisious wrote: »
    So should one think the leak disclosures assist in making for a level playing field between Hillary and Donald?

    Except the MSM isn't reporting on them so only the hardcore supporters know about them

    Wikileaks doesn't have the platform of NBC and CNN


  • #4060
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    oik wrote: »
    She didn't compliment him on his parenting skills. She complimented his children.

    Hillary Clinton: 'His children are incredibly able and devoted, and I think that says a lot about Donald.'

    That's a compliment any parent would be thrilled to receive. As was Donald.
    oik wrote: »
    She knew the difference

    Really? Because apparently he didn't.

    Donald Trump: 'Well, I consider her statement about my children to be a very nice compliment. I don’t know if it was meant to be a compliment, but it is a great — I’m very proud of my children. And they’ve done a wonderful job, and they’ve been wonderful, wonderful kids. So I consider that a compliment.'


  • #4061
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    oik wrote: »
    She didn't intend it as a compliment, that's what's wrong with it.

    She didn't say, "clearly Donald is a great parent, just look at his kids."

    She was asked to "say" something nice about him and she wouldn't because she knows it would burst the boogyman bubble she has created around him.

    If she called him passionate, it would undermine her argument that he's only out for himself.

    Basically her premise is there's nothing good about Donald Trump the person and she can't come down from that.

    Her exact words as you must have listed to a different quote

    "Well, I certainly will, because I think that’s a very fair and important question. Look, I respect his children. His children are incredibly able and devoted, and I think that says a lot about Donald. I don’t agree with nearly anything else he says or does, but I do respect that. And I think that is something that as a mother and a grandmother is very important to me."

    I repeat the important bit "His children are incredibly able and devoted, and I think that says a lot about Donald"

    To me the above is indeed high praise. Americans like many cultures put a lot of store in how a person raises children.


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  • #4062
    aloyisious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,361 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    oik wrote: »
    She didn't compliment him on his parenting skills. She complimented his children. She knew the difference

    For what it's worth, I personally thought Hillary was referring to Don's daughter, Ivanka, following on from the reported remarks Don had made. I thought Hillary might have being making a subtle political play for Ivanka's vote and Don understood it instantly, which is why he queried it instantly on the spot live on air.


  • #4063
    frostyjacks
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭frostyjacks


    I've never seen an election with such bias in the media, save for North Korea. All these reports about sexual assault claims against Trump, and when you actually read the details it's all, 'He tried to kiss me' or 'He put a hand on me'. Seriously? We all know how certain women behave around the rich and famous.

    At worst it's clumsy flirting, a miscommunication, nothing more. We've only heard one side of the story too, I'm sure the actual version, if any of these events did indeed happen, would be very different.

    No wonder people are calling this election rigged. You knew when Anderson Cooper kept badgering him about assaulting women in the second debate that there would be a slew of allegations made against him. Lo and behold, that's what happened.


  • #4064
    oik
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭oik


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    Hillary Clinton: 'His children are incredibly able and devoted, and I think that says a lot about Donald.'

    That's a compliment any parent would be thrilled to receive. As was Donald.



    Really? Because apparently he didn't.

    Donald Trump: 'Well, I consider her statement about my children to be a very nice compliment. I don’t know if it was meant to be a compliment, but it is a great — I’m very proud of my children. And they’ve done a wonderful job, and they’ve been wonderful, wonderful kids. So I consider that a compliment.'

    I took that as a sign that he knew what she was getting at. He wasn't enough of a tit to let that one go without passing a subtle remark.


  • #4065
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    aloyisious wrote: »
    For what it's worth, I personally thought Hillary was referring to Don's daughter, Ivanka, following on from the reported remarks Don had made. I thought Hillary might have being making a subtle political play for Ivanka's vote and Don understood it instantly, which is why he queried it instantly on the spot live on air.

    You mean you deliberately re-imagined what she had just said as some bizarre political ploy for one woman's vote, apropos of?

    Those 'reported' comments are on tape available to listen to with your own ears not merely 'reported'. And by the way would that be the comments where he says she has always been voluptuous or that its okay to refer to her as a piece of ass?


  • #4066
    oik
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭oik


    aloyisious wrote: »
    For what it's worth, I personally thought Hillary was referring to Don's daughter, Ivanka, following on from the reported remarks Don had made. I thought Hillary might have being making a subtle political play for Ivanka's vote and Don understood it instantly, which is why he queried it instantly on the spot live on air.

    Exactly.


  • #4067
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    oik wrote: »
    I took that as a sign that he knew what she was getting at. He wasn't enough of a tit to let that one go without passing a subtle remark.

    ...

    And saying it was a very nice compliment and then confirming again that it was a compliment.


  • #4068
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,563 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »
    What's wrong with that. To many to compliment the children of a person who finds family import is a high compliment.

    She didn't mean it as a compliment. It was a way of avoiding saying anything nice about Donald.

    It's called damning with faint praise

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • #4069
    oik
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭oik


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    You mean you deliberately re-imagined what she had just said as some bizarre political ploy for one woman's vote, apropos of?

    Those 'reported' comments are on tape available to listen to with your own ears not merely 'reported'. And by the way would that be the comments where he says she has always been voluptuous or that its okay to refer to her as a piece of ass?

    He's not the first person who said that.

    You're the one who's missing the subtly here

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lb1hJs1Kro

    Listen to the groan of the audience when she says "I respect his children" and his knowing smile behind her.


  • #4070
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,563 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    frostyjacks wrote: »
    I've never seen an election with such bias in the media, save for North Korea. All these reports about sexual assault claims against Trump, and when you actually read the details it's all, 'He tried to kiss me' or 'He put a hand on me'. Seriously? We all know how certain women behave around the rich and famous.

    At worst it's clumsy flirting, a miscommunication, nothing more. We've only heard one side of the story too, I'm sure the actual version, if any of these events did indeed happen, would be very different.

    No wonder people are calling this election rigged. You knew when Anderson Cooper kept badgering him about assaulting women in the second debate that there would be a slew of allegations made against him. Lo and behold, that's what happened.

    If you think putting a hand up a strangers skirt is 'clumsy flirting' then that says an enormous amount about what kind of person you are

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • #4071
    oik
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭oik


    Akrasia wrote: »
    If you think putting a hand up a strangers skirt is 'clumsy flirting' then that says an enormous amount about what kind of person you are

    Where's the evidence he did that?


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  • #4072
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    Akrasia wrote: »
    She didn't mean it as a compliment. It was a way of avoiding saying anything nice about Donald.

    It's called damning with faint praise

    Sorry but when someone says that your children are incredibly able and devoted and that this reflects well on you. Then doubles down on that by saying it is especially important to her as a mother and grandmother that is a compliment. In everyway.

    Meanwhile Donald said that she had tremendous evil in her heart. Then again he did previously say that she was a good friend and was doing a tremendous job so... in fairness who knows with the Donald.


  • #4073
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,563 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    oik wrote: »
    Where's the evidence he did that?

    The statements of the women who say he did it, and his own statement saying he just grabs women 'by the pussy'

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • #4074
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    Akrasia wrote: »
    She didn't mean it as a compliment. It was a way of avoiding saying anything nice about Donald.

    It's called damning with faint praise

    In your opinion in mine it is high praise. Unless you can read minds?


  • #4075
    oik
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭oik


    Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »
    In your opinion in mine it is high praise. Unless you can read minds?

    Well now I know you're incapable of conceding a point even when you know you're wrong.


  • #4076
    oik
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭oik


    Akrasia wrote: »
    The statements of the women who say he did it, and his own statement saying he just grabs women 'by the pussy'

    His own statement is evidence of nothing.

    Those statements are fairly shoddy evidence of anything other than there's an election on.


  • #4077
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    oik wrote: »
    His own statement is evidence of nothing.

    So I'll take that as admission that you don't believe him when he denies these allegations?


  • #4078
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    oik wrote: »
    Well now I know you're incapable of conceding a point even when you know you're wrong.

    No I don't think I'm wrong you will not accept the words actually spoken if they don't fit your narrative.


  • #4079
    oik
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭oik


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    So I'll take that as admission that you don't believe him when he denies these allegations?

    Not that I don't believe him, it's just not evidence either way.


  • #4080
    oik
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭oik


    Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »
    No I don't think I'm wrong you will not accept the words actually spoken if they don't fit your narrative.

    You are playing pretend.

    The audience knows she's insincere and you know it too.



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  • #4081
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    oik wrote: »
    Not that I don't believe him, it's just not evidence either way.

    So in absence of evidence you chose to believe one man when he said he didn't molest women but not when he said he did molest women. While at the same time discounting all the women who have accused him of exactly what he said he did.


This discussion has been closed.
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