UK Votes to leave EU

FrancieBrady · 13-10-2016 04:39PM

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Are Unionists suddenly going to vote to leave the union? Can't see that happening.
I also can't see a united Ireland, given the current level of subsidies Northern Ireland needs.
Northern Ireland needs the financial backing of the UK to survive.

I said it before the Scottish ref, you are looking at the slow breakup of the UK.
Brexit has just accelerated it.

A Little Pony · 13-10-2016 05:38PM

dinorebel wrote: »

VinLieger wrote: »

Scotland planning another referendum, will be interesting to watch the turnaround of the brexiters from "overbearing foreigners dictating how we live" to "stronger together"

The UK is done, once Scotland go NI won't be far behind and whether that means a UI or independent NI for a bit of time its just more uncertainty the troglodytes who voted for brexit are gonna have inflicted on us over here.

Scotland can plan as many referendums as it likes but an actual binding referendum on Independence can only be authorized by Parliament.

No 10 will not allow another referendum so quickly. Maybe wait 50 years. They had the chance and blew it. The SNP only have themselves to blame. They will end up losing seats in Scotland once Labour sorts itself out.

Calina · 13-10-2016 05:39PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

No 10 will not allow another referendum so quickly. Maybe wait 50 years. They had the chance and blew it. The SNP only have themselves to blame. They will end up losing seats in Scotland once Labour sorts itself out.

They could be waiting a while for Scottish Labour to get its act together.

A Little Pony · 13-10-2016 05:40PM

VinLieger wrote: »

RasTa wrote: »

Scotland yes but the North won't vote to leave the Kingdom.

Now yes, but in a year after Brexit is fully underway and the pound has stayed where it is or gotten worse? Nobody can 100% say for certainty what they would do

Northern Ireland is a bit different. Its a preferably live in a trash can than a UI mentality which would need to be overcome.

CMOTDibbler · 13-10-2016 05:41PM

dinorebel wrote: »

Scotland can plan as many referendums as it likes but an actual binding referendum on Independence can only be authorized by Parliament.

One of the many hurdles that still have to be crossed. SNP don't even have a majority in the Scottish parliament, so that's the first hurdle.

A Dub in Glasgo · 13-10-2016 05:44PM

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

One of the many hurdles that still have to be crossed. SNP don't even have a majority in the Scottish parliament, so that's the first hurdle.

Not much of a hurdle when pro-independence parties (SNP & Greens) do have a majority in the Scottish Parliament

A Little Pony · 13-10-2016 05:46PM

Why would Parliament authorize another referendum when they are having to deal with Brexit and will probably be doing so for the next 4-5 years? Nicola Sturgeon needs to get real and get a life basically. They will just tell her you already had one and f*cked it up. Tough luck.

A Dub in Glasgo · 13-10-2016 05:48PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

Why would Parliament authorize another referendum when they are having to deal with Brexit and will probably be doing so for the next 4-5 years? Nicola Sturgeon needs to get real and get a life basically. They will just tell her you already had one and f*cked it up. Tough luck.

It is going to happen

A Little Pony · 13-10-2016 05:52PM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Why would Parliament authorize another referendum when they are having to deal with Brexit and will probably be doing so for the next 4-5 years? Nicola Sturgeon needs to get real and get a life basically. They will just tell her you already had one and f*cked it up. Tough luck.

It is going to happen

Nope. I don't see how she gets the support of the UK government to allow it.

RasTa · 13-10-2016 05:52PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

Why would Parliament authorize another referendum when they are having to deal with Brexit and will probably be doing so for the next 4-5 years? Nicola Sturgeon needs to get real and get a life basically. They will just tell her you already had one and f*cked it up. Tough luck.

Scotland have their own Parliament so they don't need Westminster to authorize anything.

A Little Pony · 13-10-2016 06:00PM

RasTa wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Why would Parliament authorize another referendum when they are having to deal with Brexit and will probably be doing so for the next 4-5 years? Nicola Sturgeon needs to get real and get a life basically. They will just tell her you already had one and f*cked it up. Tough luck.

Scotland have their own Parliament so they don't need Westminster to authorize anything.

That is not true.

tomwaterford · 13-10-2016 06:03PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

That is not true.

Never the less .....Scotland are abandoning ship

:D:D

MrPudding · 13-10-2016 06:05PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

A hard Brexit in the manner she spoke of is monumentally stupid, which she isn't.

We can apply Occam's Razor to this. Is Teresa May attempting a highly complex political manoeuvre, involving, presumably without their knowledge, the three brexit bellends, in an attempt to subtly convince the 52% of the population (that are apparently immune to reason and logic) that they made the wrong decision, even though they apparently don't care whether or not they make the wrong decision or is she actually simply monumentally stupid?

Every once in a while it isn't a cunning plan. Sometimes people are, quite simply, stupid, often monumentally so.

As a keen remainer, I would love to believe that May was as cunning as a fox that, before getting into politics was professor of cunning at Oxford University (thank you Baldrick), but there simply isn't any evidence of that. As Home Secretary she was long lived, but really a horrible human being that, for example, failed every single attempt to curb immigration (which doubtless contributed to the atmosphere that gave us the leave vote) and carried out a successful character assassination of both the EU and human rights, again helping with the exit vote.

As Prime Minister what has she done? Aside from really fcuking irritating constantly saying "let me be clear" and/or "brexit means brexit" what has she done? She is planning on expanding grammar schools and in doing so she is ignoring the mountains of evidence that show this policy will do exactly the opposite of what she says she wants. That is not a sign of not being stupid.

So I'm afraid I am going to have to go ahead and ask you for evidence of your assertion that she is not stupid. I will allow that she might be intelligent but also psychopathic/sociopathic in the sense that she is going down the current path not to avoid brexit, but, because however bad brexit is for the country and the people that voted for it, she will be fine and might actually benefit. But that isn't what you are suggesting.

MrP

m1ck007 · 13-10-2016 06:07PM

Brexit is brexit boys and girls, better get used to it.

A Dub in Glasgo · 13-10-2016 06:07PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

That is not true.

Scotland will have an advisory referendum, just like the Brexit one :pac:

catbear · 13-10-2016 06:29PM

Aside from Brexit means Brexit and we're going to make a success of it starting next march, I too can't see much to suggest she's a strategist. If anything her reputation for micro managing allows very little of her true motivations to come through.

I actually think she believes in a future for an unfettered UK, a poorer Uk no doubt which may be why she wasn't a strong remain cheerer. But now that that door has been opened she's unhindered in forging ahead.

VinLieger · 13-10-2016 06:50PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

That is not true.

They can have an advisory referendum just like the Brexit one and if it's ignored point out the ridiculous levels of hypocrisy involved

MrPudding · 13-10-2016 06:59PM

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Can someone explain to me what exactly the 'great trade opportunities' are outside of the EU that the UK does not undertake at present? So far all I've got is fishing which seems reasonably straight forward which should mean great news for the 20,000 people and 0.075 of GDP it takes in - are there any other? Presumably there is some kind of trade opportunity that I'm missing which is somehow predicated on being outside the EU-market area AND outside other market areas. Someone clue me in.

Boomerangs.

MrP

13-10-2016 07:04PM

MrPudding wrote: »

Boomerangs.

MrP

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-37510315
They're only a great export if they don't come back!

MrPudding · 13-10-2016 07:08PM

maryishere wrote: »

Who want to be member of a club where you are punished for leaving, having been its second biggest net contributor? F*** the EU. Its bankers F***ed us.
As the Eagles would sing "You can check out any time you want, but you can never leave"

If you are a member of a gym and cancel your membership is no longer having access to the facilities a punishment for, or a consequence of, leaving?

MrP

Fratton Fred · 13-10-2016 07:15PM

MrPudding wrote: »

We can apply Occam's Razor to this. Is Teresa May attempting a highly complex political manoeuvre, involving, presumably without their knowledge, the three brexit bellends, in an attempt to subtly convince the 52% of the population (that are apparently immune to reason and logic) that they made the wrong decision, even though they apparently don't care whether or not they make the wrong decision or is she actually simply monumentally stupid?

Every once in a while it isn't a cunning plan. Sometimes people are, quite simply, stupid, often monumentally so.

As a keen remainer, I would love to believe that May was as cunning as a fox that, before getting into politics was professor of cunning at Oxford University (thank you Baldrick), but there simply isn't any evidence of that. As Home Secretary she was long lived, but really a horrible human being that, for example, failed every single attempt to curb immigration (which doubtless contributed to the atmosphere that gave us the leave vote) and carried out a successful character assassination of both the EU and human rights, again helping with the exit vote.

As Prime Minister what has she done? Aside from really fcuking irritating constantly saying "let me be clear" and/or "brexit means brexit" what has she done? She is planning on expanding grammar schools and in doing so she is ignoring the mountains of evidence that show this policy will do exactly the opposite of what she says she wants. That is not a sign of not being stupid.

So I'm afraid I am going to have to go ahead and ask you for evidence of your assertion that she is not stupid. I will allow that she might be intelligent but also psychopathic/sociopathic in the sense that she is going down the current path not to avoid brexit, but, because however bad brexit is for the country and the people that voted for it, she will be fine and might actually benefit. But that isn't what you are suggesting.

MrP

I really haven't been following her to be honest, but she is the MP for my old town and I know she is very popular there. My wife has met her numerous times and she loves her.

I was chatting to an ex Met police inspector over the summer and he was full of praise for her as well. They way she reformed the police Federation, in his opinion, was nothing short of brilliant, which made him pretty unique among his peers.

She has been a bit of a star in the Tory party for a while now and she was given a very safe seat, so they obviously believe in her. I tend to think that means she probably sin't either a psycho, Stupid or indeed has an "I'm alright jack" attitude.

time will tell, or maybe it is just wishful thinking on my behalf. We have just witnessed 52% of the population do something stupid, who's to say it isn't contagious.

daithi7 · 13-10-2016 07:24PM

MrPudding wrote: »

We can apply Occam's Razor to this. Is Teresa May attempting a highly complex political manoeuvre, involving, presumably without their knowledge, the three brexit bellends, in an attempt to subtly convince the 52% of the population (that are apparently immune to reason and logic) that they made the wrong decision, even though they apparently don't care whether or not they make the wrong decision or is she actually simply monumentally stupid?

Every once in a while it isn't a cunning plan. Sometimes people are, quite simply, stupid, often monumentally so.

As a keen remainer, I would love to believe that May was as cunning as a fox that, before getting into politics was professor of cunning at Oxford University (thank you Baldrick), but there simply isn't any evidence of that. As Home Secretary she was long lived, but really a horrible human being that, for example, failed every single attempt to curb immigration (which doubtless contributed to the atmosphere that gave us the leave vote) and carried out a successful character assassination of both the EU and human rights, again helping with the exit vote.

As Prime Minister what has she done? Aside from really fcuking irritating constantly saying "let me be clear" and/or "brexit means brexit" what has she done? She is planning on expanding grammar schools and in doing so she is ignoring the mountains of evidence that show this policy will do exactly the opposite of what she says she wants. That is not a sign of not being stupid.

So I'm afraid I am going to have to go ahead and ask you for evidence of your assertion that she is not stupid. I will allow that she might be intelligent but also psychopathic/sociopathic in the sense that she is going down the current path not to avoid brexit, but, because however bad brexit is for the country and the people that voted for it, she will be fine and might actually benefit. But that isn't what you are suggesting.

MrP

Great post. I'm still finding it hard to believe that the British people have been so silly as to go down this isolating road. Politics has taken over now, and a close vote, which imho was mostly just a protest vote that not many thought would actually win, is now often being misinterpreted as the people wanting a hard Brexit, no Europeans coming to visit, study, work and live in the UK, hard borders, barriers to trade, etc, etc, etc

Bollox to that.

The people of the UK voted to leave the EU, that's it.

If May is smart as a stateswoman, and I don't know that she is, she can surely find a way to evolve to a Norwegian/Swiss Efta type arrangement, with low barriers to trade and movement of people internally within Europe while also keeping the lunatic fringe, arrogant, isolationist , bullish Brexiters at bay.. Is that really too much to ask?!?

indioblack · 13-10-2016 07:42PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I really haven't been following her to be honest, but she is the MP for my old town and I know she is very popular there. My wife has met her numerous times and she loves her.

I was chatting to an ex Met police inspector over the summer and he was full of praise for her as well. They way she reformed the police Federation, in his opinion, was nothing short of brilliant, which made him pretty unique among his peers.

She has been a bit of a star in the Tory party for a while now and she was given a very safe seat, so they obviously believe in her. I tend to think that means she probably sin't either a psycho, Stupid or indeed has an "I'm alright jack" attitude.

time will tell, or maybe it is just wishful thinking on my behalf. We have just witnessed 52% of the population do something stupid, who's to say it isn't contagious.

52% of those who voted.
Still, if you're right, that's a lot of potentially stupid people loose in the community!

steddyeddy · 13-10-2016 08:00PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I really haven't been following her to be honest, but she is the MP for my old town and I know she is very popular there. My wife has met her numerous times and she loves her.

I was chatting to an ex Met police inspector over the summer and he was full of praise for her as well. They way she reformed the police Federation, in his opinion, was nothing short of brilliant, which made him pretty unique among his peers.

She has been a bit of a star in the Tory party for a while now and she was given a very safe seat, so they obviously believe in her. I tend to think that means she probably sin't either a psycho, Stupid or indeed has an "I'm alright jack" attitude.

time will tell, or maybe it is just wishful thinking on my behalf. We have just witnessed 52% of the population do something stupid, who's to say it isn't contagious.

I met Flick Drummond a few times. She's quite intelligent too. I feel sorry for May being lumbered with this.

steddyeddy · 13-10-2016 08:03PM

I think everyone was a bit silly. I didn't think Brexit would pass nor did my colleagues. I still maintain a 2nd referendum would result in the UK staying in the EU.

Zubeneschamali · 13-10-2016 08:06PM

MrPudding wrote: »

is she actually simply monumentally stupid?

I don't think she is stupid at all.

A hard Brexit will be disastrous for the UK, but she has a chance to remain PM of a Tory government for the next 10 years.

If she tries a soft Brexit Norway deal, she'll be crucified by the Brexiteers in her party, and will be out on her ear in short order.

It isn't stupidity, it's just politics.

catbear · 13-10-2016 08:32PM

Putting aside Mays qualities for a moment and refocus on who the next in line was, Leadsom.

Back then everything was topsy turvy, but in retrospect the fact that Leadsom, the champion of British fruit pickers, was in the last alternative to May is terrifying.

Perhaps it might have been better if Leadsom had become PM, a filterless dullard like her may have shown up sooner the vacuousness of the whole Leave campaign.

jackofalltrades · 13-10-2016 08:34PM

VinLieger wrote: »

Agreed and im saying when the UK has no more financial backing to give them nobody can say for certain what they will do.

That scenario is more of an if than a when.
And would require quite a considerable economic downturn to happen.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I said it before the Scottish ref, you are looking at the slow breakup of the UK.
Brexit has just accelerated it.

Only one country's talking about independence.
I think talk of the union breaking up is a tad premature.

RasTa wrote: »

Scotland have their own Parliament so they don't need Westminster to authorize anything.

If Scotland wants another referendum on independence then they would have to negotiate it with Westminster.
They can't do it alone.

FrancieBrady · 13-10-2016 08:40PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

Why would Parliament authorize another referendum when they are having to deal with Brexit and will probably be doing so for the next 4-5 years? Nicola Sturgeon needs to get real and get a life basically. They will just tell her you already had one and f*cked it up. Tough luck.

Why would Parliament authorise a referendum on Brexit?
Politics dear boy. And current circumstances and trying to stay in the comfy seats.

Junkyard Tom · 13-10-2016 08:42PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

Its a preferably live in a trash can than a UI mentality which would need to be overcome.

The UI mentality will never go away. Also, I would have no problem with Union/loyalist (UVF) cantons in a UI so people could indeed choose to live in a trash can.

UK Votes to leave EU

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