UK Votes to leave EU

First Up · 13-10-2016 12:31PM

steddyeddy wrote:

So project fear becomes project reality.

Project Fear has become Project Here.

wes · 13-10-2016 12:34PM

seamus wrote: »

As others have pointed out, it was DeGaulle specifically who vetoed British membership, for his own reasons. Turns out he was right that the British would have difficulty getting over their sense of nationalistic superiority.

Some needs to start selling t-shirts saying "De Gaulle was right!"

.

Fratton Fred · 13-10-2016 12:40PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

You'd think they'd remember WW2.

It was pretty much all down to De Gaulle and his dislike for Britain and the US (who he collectively referred to as Anglo-Saxons). He had just withdrawn France from NATO and ordered all US personnel out of France.

De Gaulle was an "Interesting" character and his interest in the EEC was purely for the benefit of France. British involvement would only serve to diminish this.

he was a very difficult person to like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_de_Gaulle

Fratton Fred · 13-10-2016 12:41PM

seamus wrote: »

As others have pointed out, it was DeGaulle specifically who vetoed British membership, for his own reasons. Turns out he was right that the British would have difficulty getting over their sense of nationalistic superiority.

But in any case, the French public weren't behind DeGaulle and approved UK membership by referendum a couple of years after his veto.

But I guess the UK media seized the veto as an opportunity to paint it as a case of the French hating the British.

no one believed in their own national superiority more than De Gaulle.

steddyeddy · 13-10-2016 12:42PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

It was pretty much all down to De Gaulle and his dislike for Britain and the US (who he collectively referred to as Anglo-Saxons). He had just withdrawn France from NATO and ordered all US personnel out of France.

De Gaulle was an "Interesting" character and his interest in the EEC was purely for the benefit of France. British involvement would only serve to diminish this.

he was a very difficult person to like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_de_Gaulle

Yes I personally wasn't fond of De Gaulle. Maybe he was bitter after the French defeat in WW2.

RobbieTheRobber · 13-10-2016 12:48PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

no one believed in their own national superiority more than De Gaulle.

Well that was until the brexit campaign.

greendom · 13-10-2016 12:55PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Yes I personally wasn't fond of De Gaulle. Maybe he was bitter after the French defeat in WW2.

I think he was a great man who served France very well during and after WW2.

A man of soundbites, too, before they became a thing.

e.g. "patriotism is when the love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own, comes first"

and "since a politician never believes what he says, he is quite surprised to be taken at his word".

Fratton Fred · 13-10-2016 12:58PM

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Well that was until the brexit campaign.

nothing grown up to add to the discussion? :rolleyes:

RobbieTheRobber · 13-10-2016 12:59PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

nothing grown up to add to the discussion? :rolleyes:

I could add a few roll eyes emoticons.
Is that grown up?

Edit: My comment was meant as a humorous reflection on the fact that much of the Leave campaign was based on the superiority of britain. As this is also After hours I am unsure why you felt the need to try to deride me as being childish for making a whimsical post.
Has humour become the domain of children alone?
Is political satire childish?

A Little Pony · 13-10-2016 01:07PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

We won the referendum, the majority agree with me.

Not the majority of NI or Scotland.

I see this mentioned a lot but it makes no sense. When I looked at my ballot paper in the voting booth, it didn't say should Northern Ireland leave the EU. It was a question based on the UNITED KINGDOM.

I don't know what it is that people fail to grasp with this fact, it was a nationwide vote. It wasn't like the Scottish Independence vote which only allowed Scottish people to vote.

The Rape of Lucretia · 13-10-2016 01:08PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

no one believed in their own national superiority more than De Gaulle.

Despite seeing the Germans hand him his ass on a plate. Twice. And have to call in a bailout scheme from the British and the American.
National superiority how are you ?

steddyeddy · 13-10-2016 01:10PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

I see this mentioned a lot but it makes no sense. When I looked at my ballot paper in the voting booth, it didn't say should Northern Ireland leave the EU. It was a question based on the UNITED KINGDOM.

I don't know what it is that people fail to grasp with this fact, it was a nationwide vote. It wasn't like the Scottish Independence vote which only allowed Scottish people to vote.

The majority of people in NI voted to remain.

RobbieTheRobber · 13-10-2016 01:11PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

I see this mentioned a lot but it makes no sense. When I looked at my ballot paper in the voting booth, it didn't say should Northern Ireland leave the EU. It was a question based on the UNITED KINGDOM.

I don't know what it is that people fail to grasp with this fact, it was a nationwide vote. It wasn't like the Scottish Independence vote which only allowed Scottish people to vote.

Actually the Scottish Independence vote was open to all people born in the UK and resident in Scotland.

Scottish people not resident in Scotland where not allowed vote

A Little Pony · 13-10-2016 01:14PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

I see this mentioned a lot but it makes no sense. When I looked at my ballot paper in the voting booth, it didn't say should Northern Ireland leave the EU. It was a question based on the UNITED KINGDOM.

I don't know what it is that people fail to grasp with this fact, it was a nationwide vote. It wasn't like the Scottish Independence vote which only allowed Scottish people to vote.

The majority of people in NI voted to remain.

And water is wet. A completely irrelevant point. Did you vote in the referendum? Did you see what the question was on the ballot paper? It didn't' say should NORTHERN IRELAND stay in the European Union. It said the UNITED KINGDOM.

Again I am amazed many people fail to grasp this, its as if people are deliberately being ignorant.

The Rape of Lucretia · 13-10-2016 01:17PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

The majority of people in NI voted to remain.

But unlike the Scots did not recently vote to stay in UK. The Scots chose to stay, and so accept the majority decision of the UK in the referendum on EU. So they have no claim to have decided to remain in the EU on their own.
NI has a stronger case - not having voted to stay in the UK and having a trickier history with the Republic. Which could make the case for them having an independence vote alright.

spockety · 13-10-2016 01:25PM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Incidentally the UK conditioned that the loans to Ireland be denominated in sterling to protect themselves from the exchange rate risk. Prudent at the time perhaps, but now offers Ireland the opportunityto get a substantial discount on the loan

The discount is inherent in the exchange rate decrease from our perspective. Nothing to negotiate.

ambro25 · 13-10-2016 01:27PM

greendom wrote: »

steddyeddy wrote: »

Yes I personally wasn't fond of De Gaulle. Maybe he was bitter after the French defeat in WW2.

I think he was a great man who served France very well during and after WW2.

A man of soundbites, too, before they became a thing.

e.g. "patriotism is when the love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own, comes first"

and "since a politician never believes what he says, he is quite surprised to be taken at his word".

Don't forget the equally-quotable and timeless: "the French keep their heart to the left and their wallet to the right" (which was attributed to him, IIRC).

A Little Pony wrote: »

steddyeddy wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

We won the referendum, the majority agree with me.

Not the majority of NI or Scotland.

I see this mentioned a lot but it makes no sense. When I looked at my ballot paper in the voting booth, it didn't say should Northern Ireland leave the EU. It was a question based on the UNITED KINGDOM.

I don't know what it is that people fail to grasp with this fact, it was a nationwide vote. It wasn't like the Scottish Independence vote which only allowed Scottish people to vote.

Actually, as of today, the Scottish Independence vote is back on the table. Version 2.0, formally. Sturgeon sends her regards

oppenheimer1 · 13-10-2016 01:35PM

spockety wrote: »

The discount is inherent in the exchange rate decrease from our perspective. Nothing to negotiate.

I never said anything was there to negotiate - NTMA should purchase as much sterling assets as is prudent to obtain the discount, i.e lock in the favourable exchange rate.

Sterling could get weaker and that's a risk - but the UK is going to have to pull back from leaving the single market as it will be too painful. It may take a couple of weeks for this to be fully realised, but when petrol and food start rising rapidly there will be a hard think on where their priorities lie. The referendum was a close run thing - it won't take a huge shift in public opinion to put the brakes on this.

The pound will rebound strongly on a likely about turn on the single market.

13-10-2016 01:46PM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I never said anything was there to negotiate - NTMA should purchase as much sterling assets as is prudent to obtain the discount, i.e lock in the favourable exchange rate.

Sterling could get weaker and that's a risk - but the UK is going to have to pull back from leaving the single market as it will be too painful. It may take a couple of weeks for this to be fully realised, but when petrol and food start rising rapidly there will be a hard think on where their priorities lie. The referendum was a close run thing - it won't take a huge shift in public opinion to put the brakes on this.

The pound will rebound strongly on a likely about turn on the single market.

But what happens to the troglodytes with an enormous sense of superiority similar to the worst triumphalist unionist? will they take it all calmly?

VinLieger · 13-10-2016 03:02PM

Scotland planning another referendum, will be interesting to watch the turnaround of the brexiters from "overbearing foreigners dictating how we live" to "stronger together"

The UK is done, once Scotland go NI won't be far behind and whether that means a UI or independent NI for a bit of time its just more uncertainty the troglodytes who voted for brexit are gonna have inflicted on us over here.

dinorebel · 13-10-2016 03:07PM

VinLieger wrote: »

Scotland planning another referendum, will be interesting to watch the turnaround of the brexiters from "overbearing foreigners dictating how we live" to "stronger together"

The UK is done, once Scotland go NI won't be far behind and whether that means a UI or independent NI for a bit of time its just more uncertainty the troglodytes who voted for brexit are gonna have inflicted on us over here.

Scotland can plan as many referendums as it likes but an actual binding referendum on Independence can only be authorized by Parliament.

Pro Hoc Vice · 13-10-2016 03:10PM

dinorebel wrote: »

Scotland can plan as many referendums as it likes but an actual binding referendum on Independence can only be authorized by Parliament.

Well the Tories have a very interesting view on non binding referendum.

A Dub in Glasgo · 13-10-2016 03:11PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

It wasn't like the Scottish Independence vote which only allowed Scottish people to vote.

You are so wrong, it was residents of Scotland

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_independence_referendum,_2014#Eligibility_to_vote

'Under the terms of the 2010 Draft Bill, the following people were entitled to vote in the referendum:[15]

British citizens who were resident in Scotland;
citizens of other Commonwealth countries who were resident in Scotland;
citizens of other European Union countries who were resident in Scotland;
members of the House of Lords who were resident in Scotland;
Service/Crown personnel serving in the UK or overseas in the British Armed Forces or with Her Majesty's Government who were registered to vote in Scotland.
'

A Dub in Glasgo · 13-10-2016 03:13PM

dinorebel wrote: »

Scotland can plan as many referendums as it likes but an actual binding referendum on Independence can only be authorized by Parliament.

The Brexit vote was non binding... confused? seems a lot of folk are

RasTa · 13-10-2016 03:15PM

Scotland yes but the North won't vote to leave the Kingdom.

VinLieger · 13-10-2016 03:21PM

RasTa wrote: »

Scotland yes but the North won't vote to leave the Kingdom.

Now yes, but in a year after Brexit is fully underway and the pound has stayed where it is or gotten worse? Nobody can 100% say for certainty what they would do

jackofalltrades · 13-10-2016 03:37PM

VinLieger wrote: »

Now yes, but in a year after Brexit is fully underway and the pound has stayed where it is or gotten worse? Nobody can 100% say for certainty what they would do

Are Unionists suddenly going to vote to leave the union? Can't see that happening.
I also can't see a united Ireland, given the current level of subsidies Northern Ireland needs.
Northern Ireland needs the financial backing of the UK to survive.

VinLieger · 13-10-2016 03:45PM

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Are Unionists suddenly going to vote to leave the union? Can't see that happening.
I also can't see a united Ireland, given the current level of subsidies Northern Ireland needs.
Northern Ireland needs the financial backing of the UK to survive.

Agreed and im saying when the UK has no more financial backing to give them nobody can say for certain what they will do. I do agree though that I think most unionists are as stupid as the average brexiter and will vote to shoot themselves in the foot as many times as they are allowed before voting for a UI.

Also im totally against a UI im just saying its far more of a possibility than it was this time last year thanks to brexit

ChikiChiki · 13-10-2016 03:46PM

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Are Unionists suddenly going to vote to leave the union? Can't see that happening.
I also can't see a united Ireland, given the current level of subsidies Northern Ireland needs.
Northern Ireland needs the financial backing of the UK to survive.

The UK would only be delighted to get rid of NI as it suffers under Brexit for reasons such as its an economic basketcase and security costs of keeping it peaceful. We couldn't afford it for sure.

FrancieBrady · 13-10-2016 04:32PM

VinLieger wrote: »

Sign of things to come http://www.thejournal.ie/tesco-marmite-row-3024009-Oct2016/

Things are about to get a lot more expensive for all of them, I wonder who they will blame?

WHAT? No Marmite on my super duper cheap hotel weekend in Engerland? Feck that!

UK Votes to leave EU

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