Poppy Middle Class Death Cult

A Little Pony · 13-10-2016 02:10PM

Another boring poppy thread yet again. Why the obsession?

RobbieTheRobber · 13-10-2016 02:12PM

shaunr68 wrote: »

Violation of Belgian neutrality the reason for the DoW. Regardless of other factors such as protection of British interests, Britain would not have intervened had the Germans agreed to respect the Belgian borders and attacked France in its eastern provinces, as they had in 1870. It is quite clear from Grey's attempts at mediation and repeated requests to get the Germans to drop their ultimatum to Belgium that the British were keen to stay out of the conflict but Belgium was a line in the sand.

This part-sentence is taken out of context Robbie. Admittedly I could have worded it better but read the full paragraph and the meaning should be clear.

Will you go away out of that.
You multi quoted my post and put the reply directly under a line re britain entering the war for humanitarian reasons.

The meaning of your reply is clear as day. You attempted to paint Britain as some valiant defender of human rights in belgium/europe which could not be further from the truth.
Britain acted only in self interest.

tipptom · 13-10-2016 02:22PM

Lt Dan wrote: »

Considering a lot of Cork, especially the City City was burned down by ex WW1 vets during the Tan War, it would be odd to see many poppies floating around the Great People's Republic

One of the Black and Tan arsonists around that area at the time would have been a lad you would later donate a lot of money to I am sure Lt Dan,
Capt "William Hill".

So see you did donate to the cause after all

tipptom · 13-10-2016 02:24PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

Another boring poppy thread yet again. Why the obsession?

Thanks Keith!

Lt Dan · 13-10-2016 05:03PM

tipptom wrote: »

One of the Black and Tan arsonists around that area at the time would have been a lad you would later donate a lot of money to I am sure Lt Dan,
Capt "William Hill".

So see you did donate to the cause after all

My good man. That is no way to address a man of my standing. Give me 20

I was in Nam

brickmauser · 13-10-2016 06:16PM

Hermy wrote: »

I think those who fought on both sides were the slaves.
And their leaders on both sides had been enslaving the rest of the world for centuries.
And WWI was nothing more than a battle between the enslavers to see who would hold sway in Europe.

The France was a Republic and Britain was a Parliamentary democracy with a figurehead monarchy.
Germany was effectively an absolutist monarchy presiding over by a militarist state with a rubber stamp and toothless Reichstag.
A Europe dominated by Germany had they won World War I would have been not dissimilar to the Third Reich.
Hitler gained so much support subsequent to 1918 because Prussian militarism since the days of Fredrick the Great and Bismark was about the racial.superiority of the Germans and the right as they saw it to rule inferior peoples.

shaunr68 · 13-10-2016 06:29PM

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Will you go away out of that.
You multi quoted my post and put the reply directly under a line re britain entering the war for humanitarian reasons..

So you misinterpreted my post. The full paragraph reads:

I think you'll find that Britain declared war for precisely that reason: because of the violation of Belgian neutrality. Now of course national interests come into play and it had suited the British to have the Channel ports under the control of a small, non-threatening country. But it is an indisputable fact that the British participation in the war was because the Germans had violated Belgian neutrality.

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

The meaning of your reply is clear as day. You attempted to paint Britain as some valiant defender of human rights in belgium/europe which could not be further from the truth.
Britain acted only in self interest.

I don't know where you're getting this stuff from. I confirmed, and provided proof that Britain declared war because Belgian independence was violated, which you had disputed. I never mentioned anything about some great humanitarian crusade.

The fact is that Britain acted upon treaty obligations. Whether doing so was the right or indeed the wrong thing to do at the time is contentious and up for debate. The reasoning for the DoW isn't.

LordSutch · 13-10-2016 07:10PM

ClovenHoof wrote: »

I refused to wear a poppy in remembrance of the 'Great' War. Not because I have republican or shinner sympathies, but because when you really get down to it, it celebrates pointless mass slaughter by the European Aristocrats of millions of men, and it achieved nothing except set up the chess pieces for world war two.

I loathed these middle class self-consciousness Irish types going on about how they will wear a poppy as "Uncle Frank ran into a German Machine gun" for the same royal family which both armies were fighting for. Go back far enough in our history and we all have an Uncle Frank who was cut down in battle somewhere at sometime. No poppy or lily for them?

Then you get the other excuses in that a kind of class-based territorial pissing is involved. All the Sinn Fein knackers were a Lilly, so in order for Sentanta NiCasbastini to show he is middle class, he will wear a poppy.

You know what. It's all bollox and all you do is show the world that you are a cnut. If you had a brain you would realize it just all feeds into the same royal families who caused it. Rather trying to look inclusive, how about not wearing it and stop celebrating and glorifying mass murder so the same blue bloods can keep their castles and titles.

it celebrates ... no

We certainly don't celebrate the dead on the 11th.

But we do remember & commemorate the tragic loss of life (Irish life in many cases).

13-10-2016 09:17PM

shaunr68 wrote: »

I have made it clear all along that Britain declared war because of the violation of Belgian neutrality.

How incredibly touching to discover that the very same British state which violated the independence of more peoples and countries than did any other state in recorded world history suddenly, as a matter of principle, had to defend the independence of "little Belgium" in 1914. Aw bless. Such honour, integrity and democracy from those ferociously principled humanitarians and democrats of British imperialism.

Harvey Normal · 13-10-2016 09:27PM

brickmauser wrote: »

The France was a Republic and Britain was a Parliamentary democracy with a figurehead monarchy.
Germany was effectively an absolutist monarchy presiding over by a militarist state with a rubber stamp and toothless Reichstag.
A Europe dominated by Germany had they won World War I would have been not dissimilar to the Third Reich.
Hitler gained so much support subsequent to 1918 because Prussian militarism since the days of Fredrick the Great and Bismark was about the racial.superiority of the Germans and the right as they saw it to rule inferior peoples.

I wonder where they got that idea from, though?

**Cough cough** British empire.

Fratton Fred · 13-10-2016 09:44PM

Deleted User wrote: »

How incredibly touching to discover that the very same British state which violated the independence of more peoples and countries than did any other state in recorded world history suddenly, as a matter of principle, had to defend the independence of "little Belgium" in 1914. Aw bless. Such honour, integrity and democracy from those ferociously principled humanitarians and democrats of British imperialism.

have you ever considered hypnosis, apparantly that is a great way to combat phobias and unnatural obsession

http://www.accesshypnotherapy.com/fears-and-phobias

Fratton Fred · 13-10-2016 09:45PM

Harvey Normal wrote: »

I wonder where they got that idea from, though?

**Cough cough** British empire.

or France, or Spain, or Rome, or Japan.......

13-10-2016 10:07PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

have you ever considered hypnosis, apparantly that is a great way to combat phobias and unnatural obsession

http://www.accesshypnotherapy.com/fears-and-phobias

Ah Fred. Still getting upset at any criticism of your country's mass murder across the world and centuries.

Just in case it hasn't been mentioned, I know you'll appreciate if I remind people that the Royal British Legion that organises your poppy appeals, and are now the uber Brits, was a most keen supporter of Hitler and the Nazis, even raising some 20,000 British volunteers in 1938 to help the Nazis police the Sudetenland occupation and going over to Germany in 1938 to meet Hitler. But this is quietly brushed under the carpet in your country's post-WW2 revisionism so pretend I never mentioned it. Enjoy the photos:

Royal British Legion meeting Hitler, 1938

Fratton Fred · 13-10-2016 10:23PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ah Fred. Still getting upset at any criticism of your country's mass murder across the world and centuries.

Just in case it hasn't been mentioned, I know you'll appreciate if I remind people that the Royal British Legion that organises your poppy appeals, and are now the uber Brits, was a most keen supporter of Hitler and the Nazis, even raising some 20,000 British volunteers in 1938 to help the Nazis police the Sudetenland occupation and going over to Germany in 1938 to meet Hitler. But this is quietly brushed under the carpet in your country's post-WW2 revisionism so pretend I never mentioned it. Enjoy the photos:

Royal British Legion meeting Hitler, 1938

Still posting the same **** as last year I see. This really is an unhealthy obsession you have.

03-11-2016 12:33AM

Hmmm, commemorating the dead by selling things made from other things that actually killed people. The selective morality is quite something........

https://twitter.com/showcasemassive/status/772785869044477953

Fleawuss · 03-11-2016 02:02AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Hmmm, commemorating the dead by selling things made from other things that actually killed people. The selective morality is quite something........

https://twitter.com/showcasemassive/status/772785869044477953

It's all very mixed up. But then you're name is 17 pdr which might be a reference to a gigantic baby, a fish or an obscure piece of artillery. Very mixed up it all very is.

Mal-Adjusted · 03-11-2016 02:08AM

Jaysus, is it poppy season already? the time passes so fast

Ted111 · 03-11-2016 02:13AM

England football team banned from wearing poppy armband.
They're going to defy! the ban.

darlett · 03-11-2016 02:33AM

brickmauser wrote: »

A Europe dominated by Germany had they won World War I would have been not dissimilar to the Third Reich..

It's rare people struggle to see the differences between the two regimes so even if it were just for the sake of argument, fair play to you.

LordSutch · 03-11-2016 08:19AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Hmmm, commemorating the dead by selling things made from other things that actually killed people. The selective morality is quite something........

As an annual poppy wearer myself here in Dublin I must say that I can not agree with the 'shell case' poppy mentioned above, indeed I can't understand what its about :cool:

The fact that it's made out or ordnance that killed other people seems rather crass and against the very spirit of the poppy and what it stands for. I have a good mind to write to the Legion and ask what the hell is this all about (or have I misunderstood)? I also have reservations about the wearing of the poppy on football shirts, even on Armistice day! Yes of course the footie supporters can wear them in the stands, but must they be compulsory on the pitch? I'm not sure...

Dohnjoe · 03-11-2016 09:33AM

ClovenHoof wrote: »

I refused to wear a poppy in remembrance of the 'Great' War. Not because I have republican or shinner sympathies, but because when you really get down to it, it celebrates pointless mass slaughter by the European Aristocrats of millions of men, and it achieved nothing except set up the chess pieces for world war two.

It's to remember the dead, the tragedy of the event, the pointless slaughter of millions

tomwaterford · 03-11-2016 09:39AM

Dohnjoe wrote: »

It's to remember the dead, the tragedy of the event, the pointless slaughter of millions

Despite the money going to live soldiers some of whom were injured in the north???

Its deceptive at best to say it's just to remember the dead

sondagefaux · 03-11-2016 10:19AM

Why don't people living in Ireland who wish to commemorate the fallen of both world wars wear a French symbol at this time of year, or a Belgian symbol? Why does it have to be a British symbol? If the real motivation is to commemorate the dead, then adopting a French or Belgian symbol should be readily accepted. If the real motivation is to display some sort of loyalty or respect for the British state, which I suspect is true of most poppy wearers in the republic, then say so and stop pretending otherwise.
From Wikipedia:

France and Belgium

Bleuet de France, circa 1950

Remembrance Day (11 November) is a national holiday in France and Belgium. It commemorates the armistice signed between the Allies and Germany at Compi gne, France, for the cessation of hostilities on the Western Front, which took effect at 11:00 am the "eleventh hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month." Armistice Day is one of the most important military celebrations in France, since it was a major French victory and the French paid a heavy price in blood to achieve it. The First World War was considered in France as the "Great Patriotic War".^[37] Almost all French villages feature memorials dedicated to those fallen during the conflict.^[38] In France the blue cornflower (Bleuet de France) is used symbolically rather than the poppy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrance_Day#France_and_Belgium

Dohnjoe · 03-11-2016 10:21AM

tomwaterford wrote: »

Despite the money going to live soldiers some of whom were injured in the north???

Its deceptive at best to say it's just to remember the dead

What it symbolises is pretty clear

It's certainly not a "celebration" of the event like Jaden Smith here was implying

It's not a badge which says "European War Champions 1914-1918"

ohnonotgmail · 03-11-2016 10:22AM

sondagefaux wrote: »

Why don't people living in Ireland who wish to commemorate the fallen of both world wars wear a French symbol at this time of year, or a Belgian symbol? Why does it have to be a British symbol? If the real motivation is to commemorate the dead, then adopting a French or Belgian symbol should be readily accepted. If the real motivation is to display some sort of loyalty or respect for the British state, which I suspect is true of most poppy wearers in the republic, then say so and stop pretending otherwise.

because i dont have any relatives who died while fighting in the french or belgian armies. quite simple really.

lawred2 · 03-11-2016 10:27AM

orubiru wrote: »

I thought the whole poppy thing was about remembrance and raising money for charity?

Charity?

You mean the Royal British Legion?

That charity?

tomwaterford · 03-11-2016 10:31AM

Dohnjoe wrote: »

What it symbolises is pretty clear

It's certainly not a "celebration" of the event like Jaden Smith here was implying

It's not a badge which says "European War Champions 1914-1918"

Noone has issue with what it symbolises......but I for one wouldn't give money to an organisation that looks after soldiers what carried out killings/got injured In the north

And would view those that do....as supporters of such

It's just my opinion.....

darlett · 03-11-2016 10:37AM

sondagefaux wrote: »

Why don't people living in Ireland who wish to commemorate the fallen of both world wars wear a French symbol at this time of year, or a Belgian symbol? Why does it have to be a British symbol? If the real motivation is to commemorate the dead, then adopting a French or Belgian symbol should be readily accepted. If the real motivation is to display some sort of loyalty or respect for the British state, which I suspect is true of most poppy wearers in the republic, then say so and stop pretending otherwise.

The poppy is not a British symbol. It grew in no-mans land, where citizens of all nations were free to fall/die 'oribbly. A thing of beauty amid scenes of horror.
Why do you think its British?

The use of the poppy to remember dead/fund raise for survivors began in America. The British adopted it. Your suspicions are based on sand. Some people maybe do feel this loyalty to the British state. Good for them. Others maybe feel grief for young ruined lives, even if they feel those soldiers made foolish or wrong decisions and wish to contribute a couple of euro towards schemes to help them recover.

It's not always about the North. When you watch a WWII movie who do you root for?

Snickers Man · 03-11-2016 10:44AM

Moo Moo Land wrote: »

The OP makes some solid points.

However, we Irish generally don't wear a poppy, do we? I have never seen one here.

Ever since this has been discussed on boards I have kept surreptitious note of how many poppies I see on people's lapels in Dublin throughout the first two weeks of November.

Answer: very few. Maybe two or three a year. This probably rises a bit on the actual Remembrance Sunday itself, but it is not the "badge of duty" that it is in Britain, especially among those who appear on TV.

BTW one of the poppies I saw last year was in Sean McDermott St in north inner city and it was worn by somebody who was most definitely NOT, judging by his clothes, "middle class".

There were a lot of working class Irishmen in the British Army in both World Wars, and others. If their relatives want to remember them with a poppy, so be it. I'll bet a lot of them also think "It's only middle class armchair republicans from Dublin 4 who are most vociferous about NOT wearing poppies so I'm going to wear one just to piss them off."

And all they're doing is upsetting the poor old OP.

Snickers Man · 03-11-2016 10:48AM

MagicIRL wrote: »

Brilliant. I hope this makes the "Most Anticipated Baby Names of 2017" list.

Just goes to show that neither you nor Cloven Hoof know a thing about Irish nomenclature. Either that or you're taking the whole "gender fluid" thing a bit far.

Poppy Middle Class Death Cult

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