Property Market 2016

handlemaster · 12-10-2016 6:35pm

Will second hand homes go up by as much ?

EmmaMurray2016 · 12-10-2016 6:51pm

handlemaster wrote: »

Will second hand homes go up by as much ?

Hopefully not

ThisRegard · 12-10-2016 7:29pm

We are far from a corrupt country, or ****hole. We're living in a pretty good country, albeit with some things not working as good as they could. What's this working man you talk about? We're all working men, and women. Those that don't work still get decent social welfare benefits.

Gandalph · 12-10-2016 10:24pm

EmmaMurray2016 wrote: »

This isn't a first time buyers grant cause I'm a first time buyer and I can't afford NEW builds in Dublin. We have to buy a house for 220,000 or less 10% deposit.

Plenty of new builds in commuter towns come into that price range.

cronos · 12-10-2016 11:13pm

OfflerCrocGod wrote: »

The truly prudent wouldn't pour all their savings into a deposit. The truly prudent would put 20% down as deposit and keep the rest of their savings in liquid form.

This would allow them to get the lower interest rates, keep a large sum of money as savings and to avail of this grant.

Would this approach actually end with you losing more money than your saving in the long run? With the additional morgage interest.

athtrasna · 12-10-2016 11:30pm

Mod note

Shugy do not post on this thread again and please familiarise yourself with the forum charter before further posts on this forum.

Other posters are reminded that this is a property market thread and not the ranting and raving forum.

MintyMagnum · 12-10-2016 11:59pm

If you were the only one at an 'open viewing' what would you think?

The_Conductor · 13-10-2016 7:23am

MintyMagnum wrote: »

If you were the only one at an 'open viewing' what would you think?

Very little interest in the property- I'd have a look on Propertypriceregister.ie at recent sales in the area (if any) and make an offer at least 10% (possibly more) less than the last comparable sale (if I was interested), sit back and see what happens..........

OfflerCrocGod · 13-10-2016 8:19am

cronos wrote: »

Would this approach actually end with you losing more money than your saving in the long run? With the additional morgage interest.

This is the part I'm unclear about, with most banks if you provide 20% deposit on the dot you move to the lower interest rates and the help to buy incentive says the LTV has to be min 80%. Does that mean 80% inclusive or 80.1%? From my reading it's 80% inclusive.

68 lost souls · 13-10-2016 8:22am

OfflerCrocGod wrote: »

This is the part I'm unclear about, with most banks if you provide 20% deposit on the dot you move to the lower interest rates and the help to buy incentive says the LTV has to be min 80%. Does that mean 80% inclusive or 80.1%? From my reading it's 80% inclusive.

Plus a lot of banks cashback ffer are limited to 80% LTV mortgages.

Muff Richardson · 13-10-2016 8:35am

cronos wrote: »

Would this approach actually end with you losing more money than your saving in the long run? With the additional morgage interest.

Yes, nothing prudent about hanging on to the cash if you have it...here's a calculation on €400k house where one borrows 80% of value (€320k) to avail of the grant and the other borrows 55% (€220k). This is based on a 28 year term at today's lowest borrowing rate by Ulster Bank at 3.1%.

Borrowing Total Repayment Total Interest
€320,000.00 €479,111.66 €139,111.66 (includes -€20,000 Grant)
€220,000.00 €329,389.26 €109,389.26

If you have the capital, put it in, you'll save money in the long run.

Bigus · 13-10-2016 8:53am

MintyMagnum wrote: »

If you were the only one at an 'open viewing' what would you think?

Big mistake on the estate agents part, he overestimated demand or overpriced the asking. I wouldn't make any offer , but tell him your interested but not near the current asking price and you have more stuff to look at, but ask ea to keep you informed.

MintyMagnum · 13-10-2016 9:12am

Bigus wrote: »

Big mistake on the estate agents part, he overestimated demand or overpriced the asking. I wouldn't make any offer , but tell him your interested but not near the current asking price and you have more stuff to look at, but ask ea to keep you informed.

This has actually happened three times in the last ten days to me, 3 different style properties in different locations eg houses & apartments, suburb & commuter town & in different price ranges.

Michael D Not Higgins · 13-10-2016 9:14am

Muff Richardson wrote: »

Yes, nothing prudent about hanging on to the cash if you have it...here's a calculation on €400k house where one borrows 80% of value (€320k) to avail of the grant and the other borrows 55% (€220k). This is based on a 28 year term at today's lowest borrowing rate by Ulster Bank at 3.1%.

Borrowing Total Repayment Total Interest
€320,000.00 €479,111.66 €139,111.66 (includes -€20,000 Grant)
€220,000.00 €329,389.26 €109,389.26

If you have the capital, put it in, you'll save money in the long run.

What's the investment value of 100k after 28 years though? I'd say it's a lot more than the 150k difference. Even with a 2% savings account it would get you 174k at the end of 28 years.

youcancallmeal · 13-10-2016 9:17am

MintyMagnum wrote: »

This has actually happened three times in the last ten days to me, 3 different style properties in different locations eg houses & apartments, suburb & commuter town & in different price ranges.

Is it possibly to do with the time of year? Anecdotally I know a few people who have been looking unsuccessfully since January and have gotten so sick of it they decided to take a break until the new year

MintyMagnum · 13-10-2016 9:25am

youcancallmeal wrote: »

Is it possibly to do with the time of year? Anecdotally I know a few people who have been looking unsuccessfully since January and have gotten so sick of it they decided to take a break until the new year

I was thinking budget/brexit or straightforward overpriced!

Muff Richardson · 13-10-2016 10:14am

And it begins...overnight changes from 12th to 13th October for new developments in Wicklow (only one I checked):

now €345,000 from €330,000 +4.35%
4 Bed Detatched Residence, SEA HAVEN, GREENHILL ROAD, Wicklow Town, Co. Wicklow

now €275,000 from €269,000 +2.18%
3 Bed Sem-Detatched, SEA HAVEN, GREENHILL ROAD, Wicklow Town, Co. Wicklow

now €299,000 from €295,000 +1.34%
4 bed semi detached, Marlton Hall, Marlton Road, Wicklow Town, Co. Wicklow

now €210,000 from €199,000 +5.24%
Two Bedroom Townhouse, Wicklow Hills, Newtownmountkennedy, Co. Wicklow

etc, etc...

Michael D Not Higgins · 13-10-2016 10:19am

Muff Richardson wrote: »

now €275,000 from €269,000 +2.18%
3 Bed Sem-Detatched, SEA HAVEN, GREENHILL ROAD, Wicklow Town, Co. Wicklow

Just to nip this in the bud
http://www.daft.ie/wicklow/houses-for-sale/wicklow-town/3-bed-sem-detatched-sea-haven-greenhill-road-wicklow-town-wicklow-1152281/

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/greenhill-road-wicklow-wicklow/3434399

The price history has them all over the place, including no increase recently, and the last change was a drop from 275. If you're using one of the price tracking websites, the increase to 275 from 269 was in February of this year.

Muff Richardson · 13-10-2016 11:31am

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Just to nip this in the bud
http://www.daft.ie/wicklow/houses-for-sale/wicklow-town/3-bed-sem-detatched-sea-haven-greenhill-road-wicklow-town-wicklow-1152281/

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/greenhill-road-wicklow-wicklow/3434399

The price history has them all over the place, including no increase recently, and the last change was a drop from 275. If you're using one of the price tracking websites, the increase to 275 from 269 was in February of this year.

there is price change movement on the tracking sites, I don't know where they are pulling data from but they are showing increases from yesterday. more notably some new developments are now showing POA whereas before they were priced.

Michael D Not Higgins · 13-10-2016 11:47am

Muff Richardson wrote: »

there is price change movement on the tracking sites, I don't know where they are pulling data from but they are showing increases from yesterday. more notably some new developments are now showing POA whereas before they were priced.

Well post a link then.

Muff Richardson · 13-10-2016 2:12pm

http://www.daftdrop.com/houses?fromDate=11%2FOct%2F2016&toDate=14%2FOct%2F2016&aF=&county=4&type=New+Home&type=New+Development&minB=1&maxB=12&sort=desc&sortBy=dPF

68 lost souls · 13-10-2016 2:40pm

Muff Richardson wrote: »

http://www.daftdrop.com/houses?fromDate=11%2FOct%2F2016&toDate=14%2FOct%2F2016&aF=&county=4&type=New+Home&type=New+Development&minB=1&maxB=12&sort=desc&sortBy=dPF

Yup looks like that is the price for the next phase being released in January, as pointed out before its common for prices to go up between phases. That in crease is actually less than you would normally see.

Michael D Not Higgins · 13-10-2016 2:43pm

Muff Richardson wrote: »

http://www.daftdrop.com/houses?fromDate=11%2FOct%2F2016&toDate=14%2FOct%2F2016&aF=&county=4&type=New+Home&type=New+Development&minB=1&maxB=12&sort=desc&sortBy=dPF

The Newtownmountkennedy ones look like the pricing for the new phase which were going to be higher anyway just like all other new phases before the rebate was announced. The Delgany ones I'm not so sure about, they still have the old prices listed in the Daft ads along with a higher price which could also be for a new phase.

However, it's a little early to be conflating any rises today with the budget measures.

Muff Richardson · 13-10-2016 4:21pm

A little early you say?

Developers have added up to €45,000 on to the price of houses since the Budget speech
http://jrnl.ie/3024449

Part of the Sherry Fitzgerald brochure for three-bed semi-detached houses in Thorndale, Delgany, co Wicklow. Part of the Sherry Fitzgerald brochure for three-bed semi-detached houses in Thorndale, Delgany, co Wicklow.
THE FIRST-TIME buyer scheme launched in the Budget has succeeded in driving up house prices by as much as €45,000 overnight.
Housing Minister Simon Coveney has defended the government’s new first-time buyers scheme, despite it coming in for criticism from experts.
On Tuesday, Finance Minister Michael Noonan announced that the plan will provide a rebate of income tax paid over the four previous tax years up to a maximum of 5% of the purchase price of a new house up to a value of €400,000.
Critics of said the measure would only succeed in driving up prices.
In one development in Dublin’s commuter counties, the developer has added between €17,500 and €45,000 to the price of houses since the Budget speech.
As of 1.30pm on Budget Day, developer Kingscroft had properties in Thorndale, Delgany, Co Wicklow still on sale on Daft.ie for:
€395,000 for a three-bedroom semi Category B house, 1,210 square foot
€575,000 for a detached five-bedroom Category A house, 1,971 square foot.
The asking prices have since changed to:
€427,500 for a three-bedroom Category B house, 1,210 square foot.
€620,000 for a five-bedroom Category A, 1,971 square foot.
Earlier this summer, a three-bed semi-detached house at the same development was priced at €395,000.
On the website of Sherry Fitzgerald, who are acting as agents for the development, the lowest-priced house for Thorndale, meanwhile, was €410,000 as of Tuesday night at 8pm. Today, those same houses are on sale for €427,400 on the Sherry Fitzgerald website.

Michael D Not Higgins · 13-10-2016 4:28pm

Muff Richardson wrote: »

A little early you say?

Developers have added up to €45,000 on to the price of houses since the Budget speech
http://jrnl.ie/3024449

They're doing exactly what you did and narrowing in on the only places they can find that changed price overnight. The response from Sherry Fitz is perfectly rational to be honest. They're saying the remaineder of the houses are the more expensive ones and have just updated their prices accordingly.

Bob24 · 13-10-2016 5:00pm

No crazy insight and many posters here understand this already, but at least McWilliams calls it for what it is (almost ironic to see the Irish Independent is now the paper publishing this kind of stuff): http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2016/10/13/all-the-good-work-to-halt-second-property-crash-undone-in-a-day

"Prices will just go up and, meanwhile, the Central Bank s authority will be undermined irreparably. Put simply, all the good work is now undone. That s not a bad day s work now, is it?"

ligerdub · 13-10-2016 5:41pm

I think it's fairly evident at this point that this policy is a total failure in terms of the would-be buyers. It's almost entirely good news for the developers, which to be fair might act as an incentive for them to build.

It does mean though that it's going to be a hell of a long time before we see the supply build up to adequate levels. I think it's quite an own goal by FF-FG personally.

68 lost souls · 13-10-2016 7:41pm

ligerdub wrote: »

I think it's fairly evident at this point that this policy is a total failure in terms of the would-be buyers. It's almost entirely good news for the developers, which to be fair might act as an incentive for them to build.

It does mean though that it's going to be a hell of a long time before we see the supply build up to adequate levels. I think it's quite an own goal by FF-FG personally.

No it's not the media spin is making it sound bad. It's a success in my eyes. 8 can now afford to furnish the house we have been saving a deposit for for 6 Years.

We were promised an assistant in July. We have no mortgage relief like others we are borrowing within our means and we have to pay stamp duty unlike other ftb in the past now stub begrodering and let us have this one

athtrasna · 13-10-2016 8:25pm

Mod note

Please keep help to buy discussion to the help to buy thread. Also try to steer clear of political rants thanks

ligerdub · 13-10-2016 10:41pm

68 lost souls wrote: »

No it's not the media spin is making it sound bad. It's a success in my eyes. 8 can now afford to furnish the house we have been saving a deposit for for 6 Years.

We were promised an assistant in July. We have no mortgage relief like others we are borrowing within our means and we have to pay stamp duty unlike other ftb in the past now stub begrodering and let us have this one

I understood the first paragraph.

Property Market 2016

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