2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

dwayneshintzy · 11-10-2016 04:19PM

oik wrote: »

The video should be judged on its own merit. You can look at it with all the scepticism you like, but there is content in there which clearly isn't fabricated. Your response seems like flailing.

So you consider the video to be incontrovertible proof that Democrats committed electoral fraud in local elections in New York? To say I'm "flailing" is a bit much to be honest, you're linking to a man who has literally been convicted of crimes related to previous "stings".

Did you read The New Yorker article?

TheDoctor · 11-10-2016 04:22PM

oik wrote: »

Deleting an audio recording of yourself is not the same as deleting evidence under subpoena. Not that Trump did either.

No he just went down the route of being a racist, pervert and being a sexual predator.

oik · 11-10-2016 04:27PM

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

So you consider the video to be incontrovertible proof that Democrats committed electoral fraud in local elections in New York? To say I'm "flailing" is a bit much to be honest, you're linking to a man who has literally been convicted of crimes related to previous "stings".

Did you read The New Yorker article?

I'm well aware of O'Keefe's record and was before this video was even released.

I don't consider it incontrovertible proof, it doesn't need to be.

You have just set that as a ridiculous standard because it gives you a disingenuous way out of accepting the implications of it.

It's proof that it's possible and in my view if voter fraud is possible it's probable, considering the stakes that are at play here.

dwayneshintzy · 11-10-2016 04:28PM

There has never been any evidence of voter fraud on anything approaching a significant scale by either the Democrats or the Republicans in any recent national or state election.

oik · 11-10-2016 04:35PM

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

There has never been any evidence of voter fraud on anything approaching a significant scale by either the Democrats or the Republicans in any recent national or state election.

There's an interesting caveat.

For anyone with an open mind:
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/438754/james-okeefe-voter-fraud-videos-prove-voter-frauds-real

Amerika · 11-10-2016 04:37PM

TheDoctor wrote: »

No he just went down the route of being a racist, pervert and being a sexual predator.

Saul Alinsky’s 12 Rules for Radicals

RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions. (Pretty crude, rude and mean, huh? They want to create anger and fear.)

dwayneshintzy · 11-10-2016 04:38PM

oik wrote: »

For anyone with an open mind:
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/438754/james-okeefe-voter-fraud-videos-prove-voter-frauds-real

Cool; some more here;

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/20/opinion/the-success-of-the-voter-fraud-myth.html
https://www.brennancenter.org/issues/voter-fraud
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/09/01/voter-fraud-is-not-a-persistent-problem/?utm_term=.64df4b4908e4
http://mediamatters.org/video/2016/08/04/cnn-voter-fraud-expert-debunks-myths-behind-strict-voter-id-laws/212181
http://www.scholarsstrategynetwork.org/brief/misleading-myth-voter-fraud-american-elections
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/10/29/the-voter-fraud-myth
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/03/voter-fraud-laws-gop-minority-voters-elections

oik · 11-10-2016 04:39PM

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

Cool; some more here;

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/20/opinion/the-success-of-the-voter-fraud-myth.html
https://www.brennancenter.org/issues/voter-fraud
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/09/01/voter-fraud-is-not-a-persistent-problem/?utm_term=.64df4b4908e4
http://mediamatters.org/video/2016/08/04/cnn-voter-fraud-expert-debunks-myths-behind-strict-voter-id-laws/212181
http://www.scholarsstrategynetwork.org/brief/misleading-myth-voter-fraud-american-elections
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/10/29/the-voter-fraud-myth
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/03/voter-fraud-laws-gop-minority-voters-elections

They all define "myth" as something that happens but not very often. And not NEARLY as much as black people not having IDs.

Very strange definition of myth.

And they're all reading off the same hymn sheet, a the Brennan Centre. Try varying your sources.

TheDoctor · 11-10-2016 04:43PM

Amerika wrote: »

Saul Alinsky’s 12 Rules for Radicals

RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions. (Pretty crude, rude and mean, huh? They want to create anger and fear.)

Was he talking about Donald here? Sums him up perfectly.

Amerika · 11-10-2016 04:54PM

TheDoctor wrote: »

Was he talking about Donald here? Sums him up perfectly.

It was a response to your post. Sums it up perfectly.

TheDoctor · 11-10-2016 04:56PM

Amerika wrote: »

It was a response to your post. Sums it up perfectly.

Would have made more sense talking about a man who ridicules:

- Mexicans
- Women
- Black communities
- Hispanics
- Immigrants
- Disabled reporters
- Moderators/judges he doesn't agree with
- Political opponents illnesses

etc.

Saul Alinsky’s 12 Rules for Radicals

RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions.

Trump summed up perfectly.

Brian? · 11-10-2016 05:01PM

Amerika wrote: »

Saul Alinsky’s 12 Rules for Radicals

RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions. (Pretty crude, rude and mean, huh? They want to create anger and fear.)

Lying Ted. Crooked Hillary. Little Marco. Disparage Fiorina's looks. And the list goes on.

TheDoctor · 11-10-2016 05:02PM

Great addition that comment to the thread Amerika.
Great summation of Trump. Don't have any others to add?

oik · 11-10-2016 05:19PM

TheDoctor wrote: »

Would have made more sense talking about a man who ridicules:

- Mexicans
- Women
- Black communities
- Hispanics
- Immigrants
- Disabled reporters
- Moderators/judges he doesn't agree with
- Political opponents illnesses

etc.

Saul Alinsky’s 12 Rules for Radicals

RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions.

Trump summed up perfectly.

Butchering the definition of ridicule here

oik · 11-10-2016 05:20PM

Brian? wrote: »

Lying Ted. Crooked Hillary. Little Marco. Disparage Fiorina's looks. And the list goes on.

Now that is an example of ridicule, and also effective branding.

aloyisious · 11-10-2016 05:22PM

With all this debating about H's Emails and the subpoena/s, does anyone know if the acknowledged deletions were done before or after the subpoenas were served, or was the subpoena issued only when people became aware of H's use of a possibly insecure non-Govt server? It seem's that at least two bodies served subpoenas looking for the emails. The House seem's to be pursuing the matter via the FBI investigation into H's Email server.

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjNx9jskNPPAhVDKcAKHVD4DhYQFggoMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.breitbart.com%2Fbig-government%2F2016%2F09%2F12%2Fhouse-oversight-chair-chaffetz-issues-subpoena-fbi-clinton-email-investigation-documents%2F&usg=AFQjCNHE3ysQ0OmN-t_KRPC1D6BoMhQVeA

TheDoctor · 11-10-2016 05:25PM

oik wrote: »

Butchering the definition of ridicule here

Someone who shows contemptuous and dismissive language or behaviour.

Think I hit the nail on the head there with that list.

TheDoctor · 11-10-2016 05:25PM

oik wrote: »

Now that is an example of ridicule, and also effective branding.

Not that effective. He's getting absolutely shafted by Clinton in this election.

Loser Donald

gosplan · 11-10-2016 05:26PM

TheDoctor wrote: »

Someone who shows contemptuous and dismissive language or behaviour.

Think I hit the nail on the head there with that list.

Bah, get out of here with your facts and accurate definitions.

TheDoctor · 11-10-2016 05:28PM

gosplan wrote: »

Bah, get out of here with your facts and accurate definitions.

Fair enough, facts and accuracy doesn't really fit with discussing the Trump campaign.

Sure he still thinks he was against the war in Iraq before it started.

gosplan · 11-10-2016 05:35PM

TheDoctor wrote: »

Fair enough, facts and accuracy doesn't really fit with discussing the Trump campaign.

Sure he still thinks he was against the war in Iraq before it started.

Ah but he was, he whispered it to Sean Hannity (the trump lover from the somehow anti-trump fox????) once.

This of course takes precedence over the real time he said it in the real world.

Facts are such a problem for Trump.

I have so little respect for people that peddle his crap. Fine to say 'I really hate HRC' but don't come on here saying 'the media is against trump' or 'he never said that' or 'loads of people brag about sexual assault'. Like you may as well be talking about your favourite wrestler.

Grow a brain!

Anyone figure out the spending cuts yet? 9tn less in revenues so where are the spending cuts coming from?

KingBrian2 · 11-10-2016 05:36PM

Hillary might be less unpopular than Trump but on policies she is a disgrace. She is a war monger. On the debate the other night it all but became apparent that Obamacare was going very badly. The reason being is she will have to rely on taxing more Americans to pay for it. The problem though is it is a substandard program like our old Eastern health board that we used to have.

When you actually look at the fine details you realize how far short it falls when you judge from 2008 the public wanted universal health care that was affordable not Obamacare. As we see that just is not possible and this is important for a society. If people can't afford health care you get an increase in violent behavior. Demos & protests start up demanding better services.

I am no expert on American health care only from the audiences questions and it shows that Obamacare has not been this major improvement to American health that we were all sold.

oik · 11-10-2016 05:41PM

TheDoctor wrote: »

Not that effective. He's getting absolutely shafted by Clinton in this election.

Loser Donald

There's more to elections than branding.

TheDoctor · 11-10-2016 05:43PM

Have a good evening everyone. Just 4 more weeks of fun.

gosplan · 11-10-2016 05:43PM

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Hillary might be less unpopular than Trump but on policies she is a disgrace. She is a war monger. On the debate the other night it all but became apparent that Obamacare was going very badly. The reason being is she will have to rely on taxing more Americans to pay for it. The problem though is it is a substandard program like our old Eastern health board that we used to have.

When you actually look at the fine details you realize how far short it falls when you judge from 2008 the public wanted universal health care that was affordable not Obamacare. As we see that just is not possible and this is important for a society. If people can't afford health care you get an increase in violent behavior. Demos & protests start up demanding better services.

I am no expert on American health care only from the audiences questions and it shows that Obamacare has not been this major improvement to American health that we were all sold.

Yeah she was pretty weak on that I thought.

The problem though is that all Trump could say is 'amazing plans'. They're gonna be 'such amazing plans'.

And then somehow that increased competition would get companies to insure bad cases.

It's a clear area if strength for Trump, tying her to anything dysfunctional in the last 10-20 years. But he should really be able to hammer home on what he'll do rather than just give poorly thought out generalisms.

oik · 11-10-2016 05:44PM

gosplan wrote: »

Ah but he was, he whispered it to Sean Hannity (the trump lover from the somehow anti-trump fox????) once.

This of course takes precedence over the real time he said it in the real world.

Facts are such a problem for Trump.

I have so little respect for people that peddle his crap. Fine to say 'I really hate HRC' but don't come on here saying 'the media is against trump' or 'he never said that' or 'loads of people brag about sexual assault'. Like you may as well be talking about your favourite wrestler.

Grow a brain!

Anyone figure out the spending cuts yet? 9tn less in revenues so where are the spending cuts coming from?

You're throwing around figures you don't understand.

That 9.5tn is assuming no broadening of the tax base or economic growth and it's also over the course of 10 years, not a single financial year.

You're not going to get answers unless you start asking the right questions.

gosplan · 11-10-2016 05:50PM

oik wrote: »

You're throwing around figures you don't understand.

That 9.5tn is assuming no broadening of the tax base or economic growth and it's also over the course of 10 years, not a single financial year.

You're not going to get answers unless you start asking the right questions.

I know.

So you're saying no spending cuts.

oik · 11-10-2016 05:51PM

aloyisious wrote: »

With all this debating about H's Emails and the subpoena/s, does anyone know if the acknowledged deletions were done before or after the subpoenas were served, or was the subpoena issued only when people became aware of H's use of a possibly insecure non-Govt server? It seem's that at least two bodies served subpoenas looking for the emails. The House seem's to be pursuing the matter via the FBI investigation into H's Email server.

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjNx9jskNPPAhVDKcAKHVD4DhYQFggoMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.breitbart.com%2Fbig-government%2F2016%2F09%2F12%2Fhouse-oversight-chair-chaffetz-issues-subpoena-fbi-clinton-email-investigation-documents%2F&usg=AFQjCNHE3ysQ0OmN-t_KRPC1D6BoMhQVeA

Look up Stonetear, the redditor who was also Clinton's IT guy who asked reddit about deleting or tampering with emails.

People on 4chan or reddit sent it to Trey Gowdy and others and they subpoena'ed reddit for his post history.

Dunno about the latest developments, but I saw the original posts and they were very damning. There should be enough info in this post for you to find the story yourself as I'm on my phone.

oik · 11-10-2016 05:53PM

gosplan wrote: »

I know.

So you're saying no spending cuts.

He'll need spending cuts if he's to balance the budget.

You need to understand that the president doesn't control the budget. Congress does.

His policies are a list of demands from congress and it's up to them to negotiate a reasonable compromise.

gosplan · 11-10-2016 05:57PM

oik wrote: »

He'll need spending cuts if he's to balance the budget.

You need to understand that the president doesn't control the budget. Congress does.

His policies are a list of demands from congress and it's up to them to negotiate a reasonable compromise.

I get that.

Trump lays out a vision and congress takes it from there.

I just don't think the overall plan is any good.

The growth he's looking for will never be created by just cutting taxes.

He needs America to go through a boom.

2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

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