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3 lowlifes get life for bashing a man to death.

1…34689…17

Comments

  • #152
    HensVassal
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,569 ✭✭✭HensVassal


    jmayo wrote: »
    Yes left/liberals whatever term you want to use were originally fighting for non discrimination of minorities, non discrimination of races, for equality between sexes, then equality for people with different sexual orientation.
    But somewhere along the way that group or a sizeable portion started fighting for the rights of criminals.

    Rehabilitation became the buzzword and the idea was that prisoners would be rehabilitated, would receive lesser sentences and be allowed back out into society a better person.

    Except there isn't any worthwhile rehabilitation, but there are the lower sentences.
    When did the concepts of suspended sentences, remission for not getting into trouble when actually in prison come into being ?

    How can people manage to amass 50 plus convictions, often including violent crime, and yet be walking around free ?

    Everytime there is a discussion here about the latest one of these awful crimes it usually works out the same.
    The perpetrators usually have a long string of previous convictions, often a prison terms or suspended sentences along the way.

    Some posters come on and say the guilty should be shot and whatnot.

    And the next thing you know the leftie/liberal posters arrive defending the system that yet again has allowed yet another multi-conviction suspended sentence criminal be free to commit a murder or rape.

    A poster above referenced we should not call them scum because it breeds and "us and them" and that is not good for solving the issues or rehabilitation, etc.

    Well to me it is quiet simply US and THEM.

    US are the ones who want to live our lives peacefully without fear of attack, treat people with a bit of respect and keep the possessions that we worked hard for.

    THEM are the fooking **nts who do not treat anyone with respect, want to take our hard earned possessions, do not care if they mentally or physically hurt us, rape or kill us.

    It is fooking groundhog day here everytime one of these incidents is debated.

    But we can go quiet until the next one and there will be a next one and one after that.

    The thing is, for the family of that poor man they can't just forget about it until the next one, they will have to live with this for the rest of their lives.

    You make salient points but my problem is with the mouthbreathers who rant about death penalty and anal rape and what not. These people are the very hypocrites who express revulsion at The Provos for orchestrating punishment beatings and punishment shootings against "scumbags".

    There is a lot to be said for rehabilitation. It works in other countries. Why does it not work in Ireland? Because obviously it's not employed properly or employed at all. I would consider myself progressive, open-minded.....what others would call a lefty. But I ain't no tree-hugger. I would be very tough on crime and even tougher on punishment.
    If a guy gets banged up for a few years for a violent crime, I would prefer that he was put through an intensive and extensive program of rehabilitation so that when he gets out he has a sense of purpose, a sense of self worth and hopefully a marketable skill that would translate into a contructive job. Maybe then he might enter mainstream society and become productive rather than just lapse into the prisoner hierarchy while inside only to be released to reoffend.

    Taking a solely reactive approach to crime means you're always going to be chasing your tail. One has to be proactive as well otherwise you'll never make progress.


  • #153
    HensVassal
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,569 ✭✭✭HensVassal


    ThinkProgress wrote: »
    Fantastic. Great to hear he's doing well then... :rolleyes:

    Because prison holds no fear for many of these chaps... in many cases it's just a continuation of the life they've been leading outside prison. They get to hang out with like-minded individuals - perhaps even some of their mates or family members too...

    They don't have to work or have any responsibilities. The state looks after them, full bed and board... as much drugs as they want etc. It's a fcuking holiday camp!

    We are far too liberal in the way we treat our prisoners in this country. In order for prison to be a proper deterrent to criminals, it needs to be seriously hard fcuking time....

    It needs to be a drug-free zone. Prisoners should be drug tested frequently... anyone found with drugs in their system should get automatic solitary confinement and any privileges such as TV etc removed.

    Also I think hard manual labor would do the trick for many of these guys... WHY? Because the thought of a hard day's work is actually more frightening to them than the thought of being banged up in prison! That's the reality...

    For some people, removing their freedom is a big deal. But not for everyone... some people quite like prison life.

    That should change. Nobody should ever be able to enjoy prison life. It's supposed to be a punishment. If you make sure it feels like punishment for everyone, you'll certainly bring down the rates of re-offenders. (if not crime in general)

    Your post is complete and utter bullshit. First of all if you would like to read the AMA thread with the prison officer you will find that there IS drug testing in the prisons. And the holiday camp cliche is getting seriously tired at this stage.

    As for horrible prisons being a deterrent....you haven't thought that out very well have you? Ever see the inside of a Brazilian or Mexican jail? How about the Phillipines? These places are the gateways to hell yet crime in these countries is epidemic


  • #154
    MartyDublin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 131 ✭✭MartyDublin


    HensVassal wrote: »
    Your post is complete and utter bullshit. First of all if you would like to read the AMA thread with the prison officer you will find that there IS drug testing in the prisons. And the holiday camp cliche is getting seriously tired at this stage.

    As for horrible prisons being a deterrent....you haven't thought that out very well have you? Ever see the inside of a Brazilian or Mexican jail? How about the Phillipines? These places are the gateways to hell yet crime in these countries is epidemic

    All prisonere undertake MDTs mandatory drug testing when governors want.


  • #155
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    Ah… I'm not going to bother getting involved…


  • #156
    jmayo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,226 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    MartyDublin wrote: »
    He didnt start his night with lads, he didnt carry baseball bat, he did not strike the man with the bat. He tried to dispose of evidence. I seen the book of evidence detective said in his statement he didnt believe matthew cummins contributed to cause of death.

    69 previous convictions for a 22 year old.
    Some of which includes arson.
    Remind us again how they set fire to the other woman's home, with her in it.
    Remind us again how they tried to burn the body of the victim.

    Coincidence maybe. :rolleyes:
    MartyDublin wrote: »
    Yes he was an accessory to the fact. But lets get this right- definition of a murder conviction is to prove beyond reasonable doubt that person was resonsible solely or by joint enterprise this could not be proved as he didnt inflict injury upon toddy as stated by his 2 co accused. He did try dispose of the body. Im a person who is currently awaiting a murder trial and know what needs to be proven

    Could you answer this, you can just answer yes or no.
    Have you previous criminal convictions and do any include violent crime ?
    MartyDublin wrote: »
    For a start i will beat my murder trial. I was issued bail, they state know i will beat it. Im innocent. Lets get this right as poster said above. Being charged with murder doesnt allocate guilt upon a person. Amanda knox? Raffaelle sollecito?

    Ehhh previously convicted killer and suspect rapist gerard barry was issued bail.
    Being issued bail in this state doesn't say much for ones innocence.

    I am not allowed discuss …



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  • #157
    MartyDublin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 131 ✭✭MartyDublin


    jmayo wrote: »
    69 previous convictions for a 22 year old.
    Some of which includes arson.
    Remind us again how they set fire to the other woman's home, with her in it.
    Remind us again how they tried to burn the body of the victim.

    Coincidence maybe. :rolleyes:



    Could you answer this, you can just answer yes or no.
    Have you previous criminal convictions and do any include violent crime ?



    Ehhh previously convicted killer and suspect rapist gerard barry was issued bail.
    Being issued bail in this state doesn't say much for ones innocence.


    Ive previous convictions yes.

    And barry was given bail in an assault case. High court need to issue bail on a murder charge not a district court which bailed barry. Murder accused rarely get bail unless an aspect of the case is challenged.


  • #158
    tomofson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭tomofson


    jmayo wrote: »
    69 previous convictions for a 22 year old.
    Some of which includes arson.
    Remind us again how they set fire to the other woman's home, with her in it.
    Remind us again how they tried to burn the body of the victim.

    Coincidence maybe. :rolleyes:



    Could you answer this, you can just answer yes or no.
    Have you previous criminal convictions and do any include violent crime ?



    Ehhh previously convicted killer and suspect rapist gerard barry was issued bail.
    Being issued bail in this state doesn't say much for ones innocence.

    Coincidence maybe about the arson? my first thought was he had nothing to do with it if an experienced arsonist wanted to set a fire it wouldn't have just been an "attempt". Major fail on your behalf


  • #159
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    kunst nugget wrote: »
    Ah… I'm not going to bother getting involved…


    Quick edit there. Just to say, Edenderry does have a serious problem. Kids overdosing on methadone, a big heroin problem, a lot of joyriding and burglaries. Have a look at the statistics. Considering the size of the town, it's a huge problem. I also know it's the town where a lot of the trouble makers from the other towns tend to congregate in at the weekends. I have no doubt there's drug problems in other midland towns, but Edenderry is like bandit country. Everyone knows that. It doesn't help that there isn't a proper garda station there either.


  • #160
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,706 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    69 convictions,
    7 convictions,
    21 convictions.

    Scum like that should have been jailed for life long ago.

    I read about this disgusting story yesterday. That amount of convictions. But hurray, they are hiring more guards, when the existing ones cant get the scum locked up, due to the lack of prison spaces!

    We need far more prison spaces, not guards. I would go as far as to say, its a pity the public cant sue the state, when they are victimes of serious crime. The state are allowing animals like this roam the streets, ruining lives or making peoples lives a misery!


  • #161
    MartyDublin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 131 ✭✭MartyDublin


    Im embarrassed at some of the rubbish on here. Fallacies, and rumours.


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  • #162
    ThinkProgress
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭ThinkProgress


    HensVassal wrote: »
    Your post is complete and utter bullshit. First of all if you would like to read the AMA thread with the prison officer you will find that there IS drug testing in the prisons. And the holiday camp cliche is getting seriously tired at this stage.

    As for horrible prisons being a deterrent....you haven't thought that out very well have you? Ever see the inside of a Brazilian or Mexican jail? How about the Phillipines? These places are the gateways to hell yet crime in these countries is epidemic

    Well there clearly needs to be more then, because most of those coming out have drug addiction issues... so how are they managing that one?

    Gobsh!tes on here talking about "rehabilitation".... These guys are going in as lazy druggie criminals... and coming out as even worse lazy drug addicted criminals.

    At the very least, we could ensure they leave prison with no drug addictions and a true understanding of what it means to work hard everyday!

    Many will probably gladly get a crappy job upon their release and keep their noses clean, because they will dread going back into prison where they'll be worked to exhaustion every day and given the bare minimum of human necessities!

    The prisons you're talking about are also plagued with drugs/gangs/crime etc... Many of the drug lords in those countries you mentioned, operate their "business" freely from behind bars!

    You can wipe that stuff out. Part of the reason for it, is because these clever criminals are allowed to sit around all day thinking up how to beat the system... you can fix that by not giving them any free time to sit around.

    Have them so exhausted everyday, that they don't even have the energy to think... never mind beat the system!


  • #163
    jmayo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,226 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    HensVassal wrote: »
    You make salient points but my problem is with the mouthbreathers who rant about death penalty and anal rape and what not. These people are the very hypocrites who express revulsion at The Provos for orchestrating punishment beatings and punishment shootings against "scumbags".

    You live by the sword, you die by the sword.
    It is like when one drug dealer killers another.
    A lot of people don't care because being honest they don't see it being much of a loss to society.

    There is a lot to be said for rehabilitation. It works in other countries. Why does it not work in Ireland? Because obviously it's not employed properly or employed at all. I would consider myself progressive, open-minded.....what others would call a lefty. But I ain't no tree-hugger. I would be very tough on crime and even tougher on punishment.
    If a guy gets banged up for a few years for a violent crime, I would prefer that he was put through an intensive and extensive program of rehabilitation so that when he gets out he has a sense of purpose, a sense of self worth and hopefully a marketable skill that would translate into a contructive job. Maybe then he might enter mainstream society and become productive rather than just lapse into the prisoner hierarchy while inside only to be released to reoffend.

    Taking a solely reactive approach to crime means you're always going to be chasing your tail. One has to be proactive as well otherwise you'll never make progress.

    There will be ones that can be turned round but it has to happen early.
    After for instance 69 convictions, involvement in a murder one would guess it is already too late and society and normal law abiding people are the ones that deserve the breaks not the criminal.

    Fair enough try rehabilitate young offenders that haven't committed serious crime.
    BTW anyone sets out to seriously harm and kill someone, no matter what age they are, they do the time like that young scrote that killed the Polish guy outside his house a number of years ago.

    No more automatic remission.
    FFS larry murphy got remission for good behaviour in prison.
    Wippee he didn't kidnap, beat up, rape and attempt to kill anyone whilst in prison so he "deserves" to get some of his sentence reduced.
    He made no effort for rehabilitation or offered absolutely no remorse.
    So fook him.

    Another instance is hennessy whose 3 consecutive "life" sentences were reduced down to run concurrently.
    What is that saying to the victims family ?
    It is basically saying the murder of the two little girls don't register anymore.
    Their lives were meaningless in the eyes of the state.

    Why have we reached such a point ?
    Sooner or later there is going to be a backlash.
    Did anyone in the legal profession notice how much support Padraig Nally gathered or have they just chosen to ignore the people.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • #164
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,706 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    All the people calling for the death penalty are wrong IMO. Some ridiculous suggestions above.

    It costs more to actually administer it, than to keep them in prison. Also I'm not a major fan of state sanctioned murder as I like to think I live in a civilised country

    you dont think that it would be a more civilised country with these f**ckers dead or in jail. Also the cost of jailing these scum for life. The money could be spent keeping tens of thousands alive in the third world, helping genuinely vulnerable Irish people at home or on a million other more worth causes...


  • #165
    tomofson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭tomofson


    MartyDublin wrote: »
    Im embarrassed at some of the rubbish on here. Fallacies, and rumours.

    Most of them don't want a serious debate, they just want people to agree with them and reinforce their own bias opinions. They actually get angry when someone politely disagrees and has a respectful discussion with them. I have been banned on this site a few times simply just for going against the flow. What is the point of a debate forum without any debate?


  • #166
    MartyDublin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 131 ✭✭MartyDublin


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    you dont think that it would be a more civilised country with these f**ckers dead or in jail. Also the cost of jailing these scum for life. The money could be spent keeping tens of thousands alive in the third world, helping genuinely vulnerable Irish people at home or on a million other more worth causes...

    *Face palm* Do you believe the B.S your writing.


  • #167
    tomofson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭tomofson


    MartyDublin wrote: »
    *Face palm* Do you believe the B.S your writing.

    The sad thing is he probably does, but only for those disadvantaged people who go on to commit murders certainly not the wayne o'donoghues or murderer of raonaid murray who hasn't even been charged because hes father is a rich businessman. There is a vile classist undertone to most of the "contributors" on here.


  • #168
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    MartyDublin wrote: »
    Im embarrassed at some of the rubbish on here. Fallacies, and rumours.


    And yet not a bit embarrassed of previous convictions, convicted murderers as friends, and being on bail awaiting a murder trial. Nah, they're badges of honour.

    Its easy embarrass you.


  • #169
    MartyDublin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 131 ✭✭MartyDublin


    tomofson wrote: »
    Most of them don't want a serious debate, they just want people to agree with them and reinforce their own bias opinions. They actually get angry when someone politely disagrees and has a respectful discussion with them. I have been banned on this site a few times simply just for going against the flow. What is the point of a debate forum without any debate?

    Yes it seems it wrong to have an opinion of dissent to ones point on here. Read through he full dublin gangland page 657 pages and then had to join. Its like your disputing a point here, while im sure you dont agree with anyone being murdered, but if a qualifying opinion one man should not of being found guilty of murder as its proven he didnt contribute to murder that opinion is valid.


  • #170
    jmayo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,226 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    MartyDublin wrote: »
    Ive previous convictions yes.

    Thanks for answering that.
    But because of your answer I then have to assume you are a criminal and in my world you are one of THEM.
    MartyDublin wrote: »
    And barry was given bail in an assault case. High court need to issue bail on a murder charge not a district court which bailed barry. Murder accused rarely get bail unless an aspect of the case is challenged.

    barry was also a suspect at the time into a very serious rape case.
    The Gardaí had asked for no bail.
    He had a long list of convictions including for leading a gang that killed an innocent guy in the street.
    tomofson wrote: »
    Coincidence maybe about the arson? my first thought was he had nothing to do with it if an experienced arsonist wanted to set a fire it wouldn't have just been an "attempt". Major fail on your behalf

    Well maybe he wasn't on the top of his game that night.
    BTW my definition of a successful experienced arsonist would be one that wasn't caught for it like he obviously had been previously.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • #171
    MartyDublin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 131 ✭✭MartyDublin


    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    And yet not a bit embarrassed of previous convictions, convicted murderers as friends, and being on bail awaiting a murder trial. Nah, they're badges of honour.

    Its easy embarrass you.

    Why would i be embarrassed of being on bail. Im late 20s ive 3 previous convictions. I am wrongly accused of a murder that i will personally come back on in here in the new year and post i told you so aswell as im a contributor to society by running a business that employs 13 people in Dublin. All legitimate may i add.


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  • #172
    MartyDublin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 131 ✭✭MartyDublin


    jmayo wrote: »
    Thanks for answering that.
    But because of your answer I then have to assume you are a criminal and in my world you are one of THEM.



    barry was also a suspect at the time into a very serious rape case.
    The Gardaí had asked for no bail.
    He had a long list of convictions including for leading a gang that killed an innocent guy in the street.



    Well maybe he wasn't on the top of his game that night.
    BTW my definition of a successful experienced arsonist would be one that wasn't caught for it like he obviously had been previously.

    Firstly your opinion of me is null and void your faceless on the net.

    So let me get this right. You wanted barry refused bail because he was suspected of another charge that he wasnt yet charged with. So democratic will of the people isnt what you support. And here i thought you were champion of irish justice.


  • #173
    tomofson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭tomofson


    jmayo wrote: »
    Thanks for answering that.
    But because of your answer I then have to assume you are a criminal and in my world you are one of THEM.



    barry was also a suspect at the time into a very serious rape case.
    The Gardaí had asked for no bail.
    He had a long list of convictions including for leading a gang that killed an innocent guy in the street.



    Well maybe he wasn't on the top of his game that night.
    BTW my definition of a successful experienced arsonist would be one that wasn't caught for it like he obviously had been previously.

    A criminal is someone involved in organized criminality not anyone with a conviction of any caliber. I know what you really mean when you say "one of THEM" though.


  • #174
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,706 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Most of them don't want a serious debate, they just want people to agree with them and reinforce their own bias opinions. They actually get angry when someone politely disagrees and has a respectful discussion with them. I have been banned on this site a few times simply just for going against the flow. What is the point of a debate forum without any debate?

    what debate do you want? they are scum, they are a threat to society! have you been a victim of crime before and suffered from these scum?

    Im sick of the attitude here, its my fault, your fault, the fault of everyone but these scum!
    The sad thing is he probably does, but only for those disadvantaged people who go on to commit murders certainly not the wayne o'donoghues or murderer of raonaid murray who hasn't even been charged because hes father is a rich businessman. There is a vile classist undertone to most of the "contributors" on here.
    there are levels of scum, how many convictions had either of these had prior?


  • #175
    MartyDublin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 131 ✭✭MartyDublin


    tomofson wrote: »
    A criminal is someone involved in organized criminality not anyone with a conviction of any caliber. I know what you really mean when you say "one of THEM" though.

    One of them means because if your working class your a parasite.


  • #176
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    tomofson wrote: »
    A criminal is someone involved in organized criminality not anyone with a conviction of any caliber. I know what you really mean when you say "one of THEM" though.

    criminal
    ˈkrɪmɪn(ə)l/
    noun
    1.
    a person who has committed a crime.
    "these men are dangerous criminals"
    synonyms: lawbreaker, offender, villain, delinquent, malefactor, culprit, wrongdoer, transgressor, sinner; More


  • #177
    tomofson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭tomofson


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    what debate do you want? they are scum, they are a threat to society! have you been a victim of crime before and suffered from these scum?

    Im sick of the attitude here, its my fault, your fault, the fault of everyone but these scum!

    I have been a victim of crime before yes I don't mind saying that not only crime though but violent crime. I don't consider the people who randomly attacked me and beat me up to be scum though. I don't wish death on them for that offence prison time yes but it certainly doesn't deserve the death sentence.

    What attitude is there to be "sick" of? most people agree with you bar two people. Are you that offended by a minority of people having a difference in opinion it makes you "sick". Nobody is ever "scum" people react to the circumstances they are born into and their reactions are natural. so thats why some people behave in the manner they do.

    Most do not go on to commit murder.


  • #178
    MartyDublin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 131 ✭✭MartyDublin


    tomofson wrote: »
    I have been a victim of crime before yes I don't mind saying that not only crime though but violent crime. I don't consider the people who randomly attacked me and beat me up to be scum though. I don't wish death on them for that offence prison time yes but it certainly doesn't deserve the death sentence.

    What attitude is there to be "sick" most people agree with you bar two people. Are you that offended by a minority of people having a difference in opinion it makes you "sick". Nobody is ever "scum" people react to the circumstances they are born into and their reactions are natural. so thats why some people behave in the manner they do.

    Most do not go on to commit murder.

    Most intellectual post ive read on this thread yet, and guess what he is going against the norm on here. Must be a bloody criminal so, one that uses good grammar, correcrly worded sentences and has a brain. Damn intelligent criminal.


  • #179
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,706 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    What attitude is there to be "sick" most people agree with you bar two people. Are you that offended by a minority of people having a difference in opinion it makes you "sick". Nobody is ever "scum" people react to the circumstances they are born into and their reactions are natural. so thats why some people behave in the manner they do.

    hang on. the best thing would that people would be locked up early for serious convictions and be rehabilitated, in my opinion...
    Nobody is ever "scum" people react to the circumstances they are born into and their reactions are natural. so thats why some people behave in the manner they do.
    I understand why it is far more likely to happen to some than others. Thats obvious, what we do when it happens is the issue. what would you refer to the 3 perpetrators as?


  • #180
    MartyDublin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 131 ✭✭MartyDublin


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    hang on. the best thing would that people would be locked up early for serious convictions and be rehabilitated, in my opinion...
    I understand why it is far more likely to happen to some than others. Thats obvious, what we do when it happens is the issue. what would you refer to the 3 perpetrators as?

    Do you believe jails in ireland rehabilitate offenders.

    And they should be called offenders in my opinion


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  • #181
    tomofson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭tomofson


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    hang on. the best thing would that people would be locked up early for serious convictions and be rehabilitated, in my opinion...
    I understand why it is far more likely to happen to some than others. Thats obvious, what we do when it happens is the issue. what would you refer to the 3 perpetrators as?

    The reality is those 3 perpetrators are human just like me. If they did what they are accused of then their morals are warped but they aren't "scum".
    Calling people "scum" "animals" ect is a cop out because the reality is whether you like it or not they are just human like me and you their morals and circumstances and background may be different but they are human. Deal with it.


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