Ryder Cup 2016

ligerdub · 08-10-2016 02:43PM

Joe_ Public wrote: »

The 20/20 hindsight criticising Clarke for the selection of Westwood has been the most persistently annoying feature of this RYder Cup. To say there was an "outcry" when the pick was announced is simply wrong. It didn't happen. There was no outcry. There are valid reasons to ask questions of Clarke's handling of the team, this is pointedly not one of them.

Exactly.

daithi7 · 09-10-2016 02:49AM

Yeah, you're absolutely right this criticism of Clarke is solely with the benefit of hindsight, and no one criticised him or his selections before the cup...... oh, errr, emmmm, except they did!!

Just See below as an example of what I wrote here, (please note the date being weeks before the Ryder cup & some others were vocal on his selections here also. Facts are feckers for showing dodgy claims to be false.

daithi7 wrote: »

13/09/2016 11:27

to be clear I an blaming Clarke. To leave out Knox is baffling tbh. Westwood & Kaymer are 2 experienced players but neither has been great this year at all.

To pick them 2 weeks before the Yanks pick their final wild card is piss poor selecting IMHO.

let's see how Clarke's wildcards get on versus Love's, in the number of matches played, no of points won, etc. i know Love picks 4 v Clarke's 3, but let's just pro rata it to be even allowing for 1 extra yank wild card playing last day. I'm betting Love's wildcards will kick the Europeans wildcards hands down in terms of Ryder cup performances & points.

Clarke has been in the media waffling o. about captains whatsapp groups, etc. Big bloody deal.....he may as well be planning the piss up for after the way he's going about it, that would be his forte anyway, let's be honest.

He was a poor choice as captain imho, and the performance of the respective wildcards is likely to indicate this also.

Westwood lost 3 & won 0 points at this Ryder cup, Kaymer lost 3 & won 1. Pretty prescient predictions by me & others on Clarke's selections tbh.

Mushy · 09-10-2016 07:08AM

If Knox was serious about the RC he wouldn't have attempted to get in by a wildcard pick. He knows the criteria to get in, joining the European tour halfway through won't change that he didn't do enough on that end.

Westwood was always going to get in, the team needed experience. I think Clarke did better than I expected. The one mess up was putting Westwood back in on Saturday evening.

Also, I find it funny how this lambasting of the wildcard picks always appears to completely ignore Pieters. Did he have best tournament of the wildcards? A rookie wildcard do plays all 5, and only loses one.

Tom.D.BJJ · 09-10-2016 08:23AM

My biggest gripe is with the decision to play Westwood in the Saturday fourballs. That was a major ****up and it rests solely on Darren's shoulders.

Dropping Wood after he carried Rose around was odd.

Pairing Pieters and Rory when they hadn't practiced together (one of them said that in an interview). It looked like a masterstroke, but it's more like dumb luck.

The US team was better prepared, and it showed in every facet. "Fail to prepare, prepare to fail".

tritriagain · 09-10-2016 08:30AM

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

My biggest gripe is with the decision to play Westwood in the Saturday fourballs. That was a major ****up and it rests solely on Darren's shoulders.

Dropping Wood after he carried Rose around was odd.

Pairing Pieters and Rory when they hadn't practiced together (one of them said that in an interview). It looked like a masterstroke, but it's more like dumb luck.

The US team was better prepared, and it showed in every facet. "Fail to prepare, prepare to fail".

So when he got it wrong it he's fault but when he gets it right it's dumb luck. Jaysus I'd hate to work for you.

Tom.D.BJJ · 09-10-2016 09:05AM

tritriagain wrote: »

So when he got it wrong it he's fault but when he gets it right it's dumb luck. Jaysus I'd hate to work for you.

Huh? Working for me requires basic reading comprehension.

Picking Westwood on Saturday after his very poor showing on Friday is Darren's fault, yes.

Putting Pieters/ Rory out together worked out great...but it wasn't planned for because they hadn't practiced together. The result was more by luck than by design. I'm glad it worked out.

daithi7 · 09-10-2016 09:47AM

Picking Westwood was a complete own goal. We called it here beforehand. Picking him for foursomes golf was plain stupid and when he did so poorly at that, then picking him for another optional session(I.e. On Saturday afternoon) showed Clarke's selection went from the sublime tto the ridiculous.

Potential Underachiever · 09-10-2016 10:05AM

Fair play to what I'd believe to be a tiny minority who managed to criticise the picking of Westwood before the Ryder Cup started. From what I've seen and read it was a standard pick that created no fuss whatsoever. He was a lock, everybody was talking about all the rookies in the team and that experienced players would have to be picked, I fell for it myself and believed that Westwood with his stellar Ryder Cup experience would be vital to the team and would be able to turn it on on the big occasion, he couldn't, he was terrible obviously.

So with the benefit of hindsight for the next Ryder Cup I'd say forget about rookies not being able to cope, Pieters blew that out of the water, just pick form players and if possible they'd also be able to hold a putter without it looking like a rattlesnake ala Westy. Players of today are far more used to the big stage and mixing it with the cream of U.S talent, they will not automatically freeze like they may have done in the past.

Rikand · 09-10-2016 10:14AM

Picking westy and kaymer prior to the ryder cup starting was not bad. They had experience in a team that had very little of it.

Playing them on the Saturday after the way they played on Friday was an atrocious decision.

tritriagain · 09-10-2016 11:00AM

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

Huh? Working for me requires basic reading comprehension.

Picking Westwood on Saturday after his very poor showing on Friday is Darren's fault, yes.

Putting Pieters/ Rory out together worked out great...but it wasn't planned for because they hadn't practiced together. The result was more by luck than by design. I'm glad it worked out.

i agree it was luck to some extent but both wlere playing well so therefore it was a calculated risk that paid off. i agree westwood shouldnt have played on sat but equally you cant just put rory/pieters dow to dumb luck. of course luck is needed. everytime we all go out on course you need luck. Clarke made mistakes i think we can all agree but i would not blame for everything . beaten by a better side

ligerdub · 09-10-2016 11:01AM

There's also the problem of Europe missing out on two players who might have qualified automatically (Casey and Knox) were it not for Tour regulations.

I expect something similar will happen again.

A New earth · 09-10-2016 09:16PM

http://www.sportinglife.com/golf/news/article/585/10603007/ryder-cup-column-usa-beat-europe-reaction

Panrich · 09-10-2016 09:55PM

A New earth wrote: »

http://www.sportinglife.com/golf/news/article/585/10603007/ryder-cup-column-usa-beat-europe-reaction

The knives are out in that article.

HighLine · 09-10-2016 10:14PM

A New earth wrote: »

http://www.sportinglife.com/golf/news/article/585/10603007/ryder-cup-column-usa-beat-europe-reaction

Now that is a sharp but fair assessment and a well written article. The following for me is the crucial point...

When Clarke added Pieters to his Ryder Cup side in August, reporters asked whether he was concerned by taking six rookies across the Atlantic. His reply was firm: he had faith in each and every one of them. Yet come the crunch, when it really mattered, the European captain went with out-of-form experience instead of in-form youth.

daithi7 · 10-10-2016 09:26AM

Rikand wrote: »

Picking westy and kaymer prior to the ryder cup starting was not bad. They had experience in a team that had very little of it.

Playing them on the Saturday after the way they played on Friday was an atrocious decision.

Totally disagree with regards to Westwood. He was woefully out of form, not scoring at all since blowing up at another major in April, and can't chip or putt. I mean come on!?

Knox should have been picked ahead of Westwood. (Chummy, chummy, he's experienced, it'll be alright on the night, yeah right!!)

Kaymer may have been worth a punt based on his experience & the evidence at the time, but that depends on the alternatives available.

Also Clarke finalised his wild cards way too early imho, weeks ahead of Love. This unnecessarily ceded advantage to the yanks imho. He should have invited all of them to Europe to play 2 + tournaments to play their way into the side. He did this well with Pieters in fairness, including playing opposite him in a competitive round and it worked. A player who (feels he) has hard won his place on a team, will nearly always outplay a cosy, complacent, historic pick. Also finalising selection later allows a captain to reward more recent form which has been proven to be key.

AnneFrank · 10-10-2016 09:33AM

Clarke was a terrible captain, Westwood should never have been near that team, the ryder cup is about holding putts and he's one of the worst putters ever, not even considering he's woefully out of form.Kaymer was a good pick, but for whatever reason just didn't show up, fine drop him after his first bad performance and give one of the young guns a chance, Fitzpatrick is a future major winner.Why didn't the two spaniards, life long friends play every match with each other ? Clarkes shoulder to shoulder mantra was lame, lazy and laughable.His schoolmaster response to Danny Willets brothers piece was cringey to say the least.It's a bloody article, written by a nobody connected with the team, gloss over it and get on with it instead of hanging Danny out to dry.The chap is a numbskull and a poor choice as captain in my opinion. Let's hope we pick better next time

Joe_ Public · 10-10-2016 09:45AM

As far as I'm aware Clarke does not pick the deadline for his wild card picks. It's set by the European Tour, if you're going to criticise him - and he's open to it for sure - then at least try and be fair about it.

daithi7 · 10-10-2016 10:10AM

Joe_ Public wrote: »

As far as I'm aware Clarke does not pick the deadline for his wild card picks. It's set by the European Tour, if you're going to criticise him - and he's open to it for sure - then at least try and be fair about it.

If the captain is not able to recognise when his opposition will be able to pick and announce their wildcards, and to then convince the European tour they must at least match their opposition....... well then he should not be captain. Simples!!

AnneFrank · 10-10-2016 10:21AM

i'm sure Paul Casey could have been convinced to change his mind aswell after he was snubbed by faldo,just a poor captain.Tommy Bjorn should do better

Seve OB · 10-10-2016 10:27AM

this thread is becoming a joke

Joe_ Public · 10-10-2016 10:35AM

Seve OB wrote: »

this thread is becoming a joke

Pretty much. All we need now is for someone to come along and hammer Clarke for not convincing the PGA to grow the rough deeper and impose more challenging pin positions and we'll have the bingo full house.

CMOTDibbler · 10-10-2016 10:56AM

Seve OB wrote: »

this thread is becoming a joke

The same 'issues' keep getting brought up despite having been put to bed pages ago.

It's becoming tiresome.

AnneFrank · 10-10-2016 12:00PM

Is it not ok for people to have differing opinions ?
I presume that's why the thread was put up.
Hopefully noone is being forced at gunpoint to read them.
It's an emotive subject for golfers like us who care

Joe_ Public · 10-10-2016 12:39PM

AnneFrank wrote: »

Is it not ok for people to have differing opinions ?
I presume that's why the thread was put up.
Hopefully noone is being forced at gunpoint to read them.
It's an emotive subject for golfers like us who care

Of course it is, I happen to agree with much of the Clarke criticism but too much of it is OTT, imo, and totally missing the point. For one, Casey doesn't belong in the Ryder Cup discussion for a start. His boat sailed almost a year ago, nothing to do with the captain and probably nothing the captain could have done about it.

AnneFrank · 10-10-2016 12:48PM

i don't know Joe, he decided to play on the Us tour after his snub from Faldo when he was number 6 in the world, but i'm sure a phonecall could have been made, maybe it was who knows, i think we can all agree with hindsight, it's a pity he wasn't there.What about Pieters though, love his sense of humour too

LuckyGent88 · 10-10-2016 12:53PM

AnneFrank wrote: »

i don't know Joe, he decided to play on the Us tour after his snub from Faldo when he was number 6 in the world, but i'm sure a phonecall could have been made, maybe it was who knows, i think we can all agree with hindsight, it's a pity he wasn't there.What about Pieters though, love his sense of humour too

What snub from Faldo??? Faldo picked him as a wildcard in 2008.
Cases had a few tough years on tour due to personal issues and injuries and decided to fully focus on the U.S. Your this year in order to get back to where he felt he belonged and it has turned into the correct decision. Will he now make the decision to go for Ryder cup in 2018, I think he will as he is now back on top 30 of rankings so gets to play all wgc events which help his scheduling

CMOTDibbler · 10-10-2016 12:54PM

AnneFrank wrote: »

i don't know Joe, he decided to play on the Us tour after his snub from Faldo when he was number 6 in the world, but i'm sure a phonecall could have been made, maybe it was who knows, i think we can all agree with hindsight, it's a pity he wasn't there.What about Pieters though, love his sense of humour too

This is the point Seve was making.

Paul Casey was ineligible for selection. He wasn't a member of the European Tour which is one of the requirements.

This has been brought up many times on this thread and aswered clearly. Clarke can't change the qualification requirements and the European Tour couldn't either without making a mockery of the system.

Joe_ Public · 10-10-2016 01:04PM

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

This is the point Seve was making.

Paul Casey was ineligible for selection. He wasn't a member of the European Tour which is one of the requirements.

This has been brought up many times on this thread and aswered clearly. Clarke can't change the qualification requirements and the European Tour couldn't either without making a mockery of the system.

Can't recall how the question was dealt with earlier on, but I agree with this stance. Maybe the traditional ethos of the RC being the PGA Tour v European Tour is fading, given that so many players are based in the US now, but for me that's more of a reason for the European Tour to keep their regulations as to relax them. The Ryder Cup is prestigious and important but the sanctity of the Tour is more important again and I wouldn't blame the Tour for seeking to preserve it.

That's why I'd have no sympathy for Casey and limited sympathy for Knox. The regulations are there for a reason and they knew what they had to do in order to be automatic picks. None of that should be thrown at Clarke's door.

CMOTDibbler · 10-10-2016 01:14PM

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Can't recall how the question was dealt with earlier on, but I agree with this stance. Maybe the traditional ethos of the RC being the PGA Tour v European Tour is fading, given that so many players are based in the US now, but for me that's more of a reason for the European Tour to keep their regulations as to relax them. The Ryder Cup is prestigious and important but the sanctity of the Tour is more important again and I wouldn't blame the Tour for seeking to preserve it.

That's why I'd have no sympathy for Casey and limited sympathy for Knox. The regulations are there for a reason and they knew what they had to do in order to be automatic picks. None of that should be thrown at Clarke's door.

Agreed.

The only things that I believe were mistakes by Clarke were making such a big deal of P.J. Willett's article; he could have taken that on himself and left Danny out of it altogether, and his selections for the Saturday afternoon fourballs.

I can't really fault him for his picks. It'd be hypocritical of me to do it as I really couldn't see any viable alternatives at the time other than possibly Knox, but that was a 50/50 call at best.

AnneFrank · 10-10-2016 01:36PM

Who would you guys like as the next captain ? I presume Bjorn is the frontrunner ?

Ryder Cup 2016

Comments