Ryder Cup 2016

ligerdub · 04-10-2016 05:42PM

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

But the key question is does this significantly reduce their chances of getting something out of their singles match. I mean these are hard-nosed professionals, presumably used to setbacks.
Someone should do a statistical analysis, although there probably aren't enough guys sent out cold on the Sunday to give a reliable result...

I doubt it to be fair.

I think it mainly comes down to a bit of decency from the captain, plus the chances are if you're good enough to be in the 12 you're probably worth a run-out in the first couple of days anyway. That and captains try to shield themselves from too many hard questions and potential points of criticism should they lose. Only playing a guy in the singles is asking for trouble from that point of view.

G1032 · 04-10-2016 06:50PM

valoren wrote: »

Brown when paired with Des Smyth literally didn't say one word to him.

They were spanked 7&6

From what I remember, Faldo did the same to David Gilford.

Letree · 04-10-2016 08:55PM

valoren wrote: »

Brown when paired with Des Smyth literally didn't say one word to him.

They were spanked 7&6

With some Scots the anti Irish feeling runs deep.

ligerdub · 04-10-2016 10:12PM

I think the incident about Brown and James refers to their behaviour at the opening ceremony when Brown was making his first appearance.

I think they got into a spot of bother over disrespecting the anthems or something like that.

fullstop · 05-10-2016 09:16AM

Seve OB wrote: »

and you heard that from the team room?

So you heard from the team room?

Seve OB · 05-10-2016 09:24AM

fullstop wrote: »

So you heard from the team room?

yes

abff · 05-10-2016 09:50AM

sky88 wrote: »

What did him and ken brown do??

James was fined a record pounds 1,500 for unprofessional conduct and Brown was given a pounds 1,000 fine and banned from international duty for 12 months. Among their "offences" were not wearing team uniform at times and showing disrespect for the flag-raising ceremonies.

fullstop · 05-10-2016 10:20AM

Seve OB wrote: »

yes

Who in the team room?

Seve OB · 05-10-2016 11:48AM

fullstop wrote: »

Who in the team room?

It wasn't through 3rd parties. I heard it directly. I'm not giving names away, but there are enough people on here who know who I'm talking about. The fact is Darren was very well received and there was no animosity or any kind of bad or ill feeling at all by anyone (or else they kept it to themselves). He was Fantastic and created a great team atmosphere.

Joe_ Public · 05-10-2016 11:50AM

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

But the key question is does this significantly reduce their chances of getting something out of their singles match. I mean these are hard-nosed professionals, presumably used to setbacks.
Someone should do a statistical analysis, although there probably aren't enough guys sent out cold on the Sunday to give a reliable result...

Yeah, a statistical analysis would be interesting, though I am certainly not volunteering for the job! Maybe before 2018 renewal if the notion takes!

What I can say is both of the last 2 winning captains have utilised their entire team of 12 on the first day and given each player at least 2 outings before the singles. How much of that is down to merely following a winning strategy or a desire to be true to the spirit of the event and give everybody sufficient game time is open to debate. I think most captains try to find an acceptable balance between the two and, for me, that's the correct way to go about it.

fullstop · 05-10-2016 12:12PM

Seve OB wrote: »

It wasn't through 3rd parties. I heard it directly. I'm not giving names away, but there are enough people on here who know who I'm talking about. The fact is Darren was very well received and there was no animosity or any kind of bad or ill feeling at all by anyone (or else they kept it to themselves). He was Fantastic and created a great team atmosphere.

I heard first hand he didn't...but I won't name names

05-10-2016 02:46PM

I wonder how long it will take for comments to leak out about the whole thing went down inside the European camp - good or bad.

daithi7 · 06-10-2016 01:27PM

glasso wrote: »

I wonder how long it will take for comments to leak out about the whole thing went down inside the European camp - good or bad.

To be fair to Clarke and team Europe, they were heavily outclassed. Despite having several current major holders in the European Team, I think the average European world ranking was the late 20s, whereas the Yanks average world ranking was 14 or something. Having said that Westwood was an awful selection, and then for 4somes was just baffling tbh. He was way off form, he's a poor putter and a very average chipper, and was always highly likely to collapse when pressure came on, which he diid in his matches, not to mind if he ever had to putt to retain cup....yikes!!

I thought the European Team looked like a team of 2 distinct halves with the experienced guys like McIllroy, Stenson, Garcia, Rose (though he didn't play well) & Kaymer looking very comfortable at this level & the two rookies Pieters & C Bello competing very well, Wood was average but unfortunately all the others either looked very out of form (e.g.Willet, Westwood) , or outclassed (e.g. Fitzpatrick,Sullivan) or a combination of both. Pity, but that's sport sometimes.

mickmackey1 · 06-10-2016 02:03PM

daithi7 wrote: »

Kaymer looking very comfortable

I think a lot of people were getting ready to slate Kaymer until he somehow beat Kuchar. Not quite sure how he managed that myself!

daithi7 · 06-10-2016 02:09PM

mickmackey1 wrote: »

I think a lot of people were getting ready to slate Kaymer until he somehow beat Kuchar. Not quite sure how he managed that myself!

Yeah, to be fair to him he showed all his class and experience there. I mean his form wasn't great at all, but he got himself up for that match in particular, and beat one of the best US match play opponents away from home in a losing side... fair dues!!

ligerdub · 06-10-2016 03:57PM

daithi7 wrote: »

To be fair to Clarke and team Europe, they were heavily outclassed. Despite having several current major holders in the European Team, I think the average European world ranking was the late 20s, whereas the Yanks average world ranking was 14 or something. Having said that Westwood was an awful selection, and then for 4somes was just baffling tbh. He was way off form, he's a poor putter and a very average chipper, and was always highly likely to collapse when pressure came on, which he diid in his matches, not to mind if he ever had to putt to retain cup....yikes!!

I thought the European Team looked like a team of 2 distinct halves with the experienced guys like McIllroy, Stenson, Garcia, Rose (though he didn't play well) & Kaymer looking very comfortable at this level & the two rookies Pieters & C Bello competing very well, Wood was average but unfortunately all the others either looked very out of form (e.g.Willet, Westwood) , or outclassed (e.g. Fitzpatrick,Sullivan) or a combination of both. Pity, but that's sport sometimes.

I'd have Wood as better than average there. He scored pretty well against DJ, and with the scorecard he had he would have won most matches. He only won a point when paired with an out of sorts J. Rose.

ionadnapóca · 06-10-2016 08:47PM

ligerdub wrote: »

I'd have Wood as better than average there. He scored pretty well against DJ, and with the scorecard he had he would have won most matches. He only won a point when paired with an out of sorts J. Rose.

Yea wood did well. rose in fairness was very fulsome in his praise of him. thought that was one of the strangest decisions to pair rose and Stenson back in the four balls. Particularly as Wood was the player carrying Rose in the morning foursomes

CMOTDibbler · 07-10-2016 09:57AM

I think the 4-0 whitewash in the Friday morning foursomes played a big part in what transpired later. Instead of competing for a 1 or 2 point lead/deficit, Clarke found himself having to get as many points as possible in the afternoon session. That may have influenced his selections somewhat, along with the Danny Willett issue.

It got compunded after that because the players who should have gone out on Friday didn't and it snowballed. That 4-0 loss was unprecedented in modern times. The last time it had happened was when Arnold Palmer was captain in 1975.

Dbu · 07-10-2016 02:16PM

I see Lee Westwood is continuing his good form in Scotland. +8, 20 behind the leader

Mantis Toboggan · 07-10-2016 02:39PM

Dbu wrote: »

I see Lee Westwood is continuing his good form in Scotland. +8, 20 behind the leader

And Mathew fitzpatrick is is 17 off the lead already, I'd say the ryder cup hit them hard.

ligerdub · 07-10-2016 05:16PM

I see Alex Noren is up there in the standings. He must feel a little unlucky not to make the European team. He has won 3 times in the last 18 months or so. I wonder if he had a chance if Clarke had taken a delayed wildcard pick like the US team did.

On a related note, I see Carnoustie is in the rota of that tournament. Having played that course once I'd have to say it's probably my favourite course of any I've ever played. Scotland in general is a real treat and I'd highly recommend a golf break over there to play some of their courses, so many gems. Another one was North Berwick, a great place.

HighLine · 07-10-2016 06:03PM

ligerdub wrote: »

I see Alex Noren is up there in the standings. He must feel a little unlucky not to make the European team. He has won 3 times in the last 18 months or so. I wonder if he had a chance if Clarke had taken a delayed wildcard pick like the US team did.

Just imagine then how Russel Knox must have felt. Ranked 19 in the world and on good form.

Nepotism trumped. I really hope the "we can't have too many rookies" thinking has been put to bed. Current or recent form is where it's at.

Seve OB · 07-10-2016 07:41PM

Good read, talks sense

http://thegcw.co.uk/latest-stuff/2016/10/5/the-people-who-know-better-than-darren-clarke

redzerdrog · 07-10-2016 08:09PM

Awful read in my opinion.

Clarke got the pairings wrong in pretty much every session and i dont need to witness missed cuts in south africa or morroco to come to that conclusion

A Shaved Duck? · 07-10-2016 08:51PM

redzerdrog wrote: »

Awful read in my opinion.

Clarke got the pairings wrong in pretty much every session and i dont need to witness missed cuts in south africa or morroco to come to that conclusion

Cant agree more clarke got the wildcard selection of westwood wrong and his pairings were baffling.

Awful piece of journalism and is basically taking the opposite stance to the majority to appear "edgy" or something..

Miley Byrne · 07-10-2016 10:20PM

"Westwood missed a couple of short putts. So be it. Nobody knew that was going to happen and nobody will be more gutted than Lee and Darren"

But the world and his dog knew Westwood is a very poor putter and an even worse chipper. You can't say that nobody knew that was going to happen. Everybody knew that it could happen and that is why where was an outcry before the event started. He's ignoring the exact reason people felt Westwood was a bad pick and a pick based more on his friendship with Clarke than any form he has shown in the last year or two. The very thing we feared could happen and probably would happen, did happen.

Joe_ Public · 08-10-2016 12:46AM

The 20/20 hindsight criticising Clarke for the selection of Westwood has been the most persistently annoying feature of this RYder Cup. To say there was an "outcry" when the pick was announced is simply wrong. It didn't happen. There was no outcry. There are valid reasons to ask questions of Clarke's handling of the team, this is pointedly not one of them.

First Up · 08-10-2016 06:19AM

Joe_ Public wrote:

The 20/20 hindsight criticising Clarke for the selection of Westwood has been the most persistently annoying feature of this RYder Cup. To say there was an "outcry" when the pick was announced is simply wrong. It didn't happen. There was no outcry. There are valid reasons to ask questions of Clarke's handling of the team, this is pointedly not one of them.

We all knew he was going to pick Westwood. They are best mates and share management. It was obvious from the day he was made captain that Westwood was in the team one way or another.

There was no outcry, just resigned shrugs and mutterings that he better get this right.

Westwood may have brought good things to the team room which is what was expected but he didn't deliver on the course, which is what was feared.

HighLine · 08-10-2016 08:56AM

Joe_ Public wrote: »

The 20/20 hindsight criticising Clarke for the selection of Westwood has been the most persistently annoying feature of this RYder Cup. To say there was an "outcry" when the pick was announced is simply wrong. It didn't happen. There was no outcry. There are valid reasons to ask questions of Clarke's handling of the team, this is pointedly not one of them.

There were plenty of people criticising the picking of Westwood before he even was picked. Myself included, on this thread.

Indeed there was outcry. Many questioned how Darren could leave out a top 20 world ranked player who was on good form and plays in the US... for a has been who had a good result back in April and played a load of sh1te since and whose RC singles record was bad... even back in his day when he was playing good golf.

FixdePitchmark · 08-10-2016 10:16AM

I know with hindsight - foresight and every other type of sight an in form player on PGA tour - Knox made way more sense - green speed - green type , course type.

But - if you were just to look at his putting stats - the key to the event. He wasn't great - in fact he was poor. He wasn't the panacea that was talked about.

SG: PUTTING -.054 Rank 107 TOTAL SG:PUTTING - -3.499 MEASURED ROUNDS - 65
TOTAL PUTTING 224.5 Rank 113 - -
PUTTING AVERAGE 1.789 Rank 145 GIR PUTTS - 1,998 GREENS HIT - 1,117
OVERALL PUTTING AVERAGE 1.640 Rank 151 # OF PUTTS - 2,627 # OF HOLES - 1,602
ONE-PUTT PERCENTAGE 38.08% Rank 116 # OF 1 PUTTS - 610 # OF HOLES - 1,602

He is slightly better than - Lee.

But all stats say that Knox is not a great putter. He would be another poor putter on Team Europe - along with Kaymer and Lee at event.
That 151 (overall) - is very bad.

For examples - Luke Donald (67)
Garca (170)
Reed(2)
Rose (155)
McIlroy (100) - Rory is a different player as his putting performance has a positive correlation to GIR.

Anyway - If we are being easier on Darren

He had the choice of a US player - putting poor - versus Ryder Cup winners with a proven record in the team room and at winning in event. Both also putting poor.

Ryder Cup 2016

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