Wiggins/Froome Asthma

Sandwell · 07-10-2016 07:47PM

Arequipa wrote: »

Is it a coincidence that Gert Linders (the dodgy Doc) was with Sky when Wiggins needed steroids to cure his realllly bad asthma & hay fever......?

More to the point, is it a coincidence that they were going nowhere until the year Leinders joined the team? Things took a serious turn for the better after his arrival. His experience of weighing riders in the morning must have been all they were missing.

RobFowl · 07-10-2016 09:26PM

A friend living in the UK said the story was being heavily reported on the BBC today.
British Cycling and Sky getting asked a lot of questions and not too many answers forthcoming...
Brian Cookson's silence becoming much more noticed as well, esp given his links to both BC and Sky..

lismuse · 07-10-2016 10:21PM

It is now being reported that UKAD have "raided" the HQ in Manchester !
Maybe the Sky is falling after all !

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-3827780/Drug-raid-Velodrome-Cycling-crisis-investigators-swoop-dream-factory.html

fishfoodie · 08-10-2016 12:17AM

Leroy42 wrote: »

The TUE's were accepted by both Wada and UCI so not sure why you are saying that.

If they were rule breaking Wiggo would already been banned.

Are you confusing unethical with unlawful?

Personally speaking, I prefer, morally bankrupt

You know; if you extend your morality credit too far, & are found wanting when someone seeks proof of ability to pay

morana · 08-10-2016 11:46AM

As this is the first time in history anything like this has ever happened i think we should all hold fire! Unless we see Dr ferrari putting the needle in his bum we have no proof.

The raid on manchester by UK anti doping was probably something to do with tax.

Wiggo's Sideburns are innocent of Alpecin doping!

velo.2010 · 08-10-2016 02:24PM

BSkyB/FOX could pull the plug on the operation very quickly and we may never get the answers to some very important questions.

MPFGLB · 08-10-2016 03:14PM

velo.2010 wrote: »

BSkyB/FOX could pull the plug on the operation very quickly and we may never get the answers to some very important questions.

This is a major issue for the livlihoods of many staff and riders

I know SKY have pushed the envelope on the rules and have been unethical but do they deserve to be pushed into extinction

And does cycling deserve again to be reported as the 'doping' sport when no actual illgeal substances have been reported to be abused

There needs to be balance...Sensational reporting framed as if everyone at SKY are runing a doping ring while puritancial demands for cycling leaves other sports untouched. Tramadol is not on WADA banned list but its reported in relaton to SKY as if it were an performance enhancer.

And what gets me also is there are so many whose only interested in cycling is to 'debate' the doping agenda ...or follow the voices of gloom

There is no real objectivity with regard to the sport as a whole ...

Who on here is so quick to call cyclists cheats are calling GAA footballers /hurlers cheats and there are plenty of them ?
Or Irish rugby players ?

Or even that bothereed to investiagte or find the 'truth' in these sports yet they seem so concerned with all at SKY

BUt as I said before you can support fairness and not back doping ...but for many if you are not with them you are against them

How many who want to hang SKY as hypocrits are just as hypocritical (in turning a blind eye) to the many county teams who are on substances and laud these athletics as local heros

RobFowl · 08-10-2016 03:49PM

Thinking of having a bet on who goes first, Sky or Trump....

highbury1913 · 08-10-2016 03:58PM

MPFGLB wrote: »

This is a major issue for the livlihoods of many staff and riders

I know SKY have pushed the envelope on the rules and have been unethical but do they deserve to be pushed into extinction

And does cycling deserve again to be reported as the 'doping' sport when no actual illgeal substances have been reported to be abused

There needs to be balance...Sensational reporting framed as if everyone at SKY are runing a doping ring while puritancial demands for cycling leaves other sports untouched. Tramadol is not on WADA banned list but its reported in relaton to SKY as if it were an performance enhancer.

And what gets me also is there are so many whose only interested in cycling is to 'debate' the doping agenda ...or follow the voices of gloom

There is no real objectivity with regard to the sport as a whole ...

Who on here is so quick to call cyclists cheats are calling GAA footballers /hurlers cheats and there are plenty of them ?
Or Irish rugby players ?

Or even that bothereed to investiagte or find the 'truth' in these sports yet they seem so concerned with all at SKY

BUt as I said before you can support fairness and not back doping ...but for many if you are not with them you are against them

How many who want to hang SKY as hypocrits are just as hypocritical (in turning a blind eye) to the many county teams who are on substances and laud these athletics as local heros

I do agree with this. I love those journalists who report on those other sports who can't wait to have a comment on all this Sky stuff while not bothering to ask questions of their own.

The same with the Russian athletics doping.

Just look at the Sunday Times report on Bonar and all the evidence disclosed about him on football. Far more damning stuff than what I see now with Sky and I leave you guess which sport out of the two will have more legs with covering the story.

Tramadol isn't a surprise. Michael Barry talked about. Farrell said it was in use before in the team. I don't know why people are acting as if this is new news.

MPFGLB · 10-10-2016 11:45AM

Here you go ...feast on this

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tue-problem-is-about-much-more-than-wiggins-says-roche/?utm_content=buffer6bd46&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

paddy no 11 · 10-10-2016 03:20PM

MPFGLB wrote: »

This is a major issue for the livlihoods of many staff and riders

I know SKY have pushed the envelope on the rules and have been unethical but do they deserve to be pushed into extinction

And does cycling deserve again to be reported as the 'doping' sport when no actual illgeal substances have been reported to be abused

There needs to be balance...Sensational reporting framed as if everyone at SKY are runing a doping ring while puritancial demands for cycling leaves other sports untouched. Tramadol is not on WADA banned list but its reported in relaton to SKY as if it were an performance enhancer.

And what gets me also is there are so many whose only interested in cycling is to 'debate' the doping agenda ...or follow the voices of gloom

There is no real objectivity with regard to the sport as a whole ...

Who on here is so quick to call cyclists cheats are calling GAA footballers /hurlers cheats and there are plenty of them ?
Or Irish rugby players ?

Or even that bothereed to investiagte or find the 'truth' in these sports yet they seem so concerned with all at SKY

BUt as I said before you can support fairness and not back doping ...but for many if you are not with them you are against them

How many who want to hang SKY as hypocrits are just as hypocritical (in turning a blind eye) to the many county teams who are on substances and laud these athletics as local heros

Could you please PM what GAA teams are doping? interested in any anecdotal evidence

ednwireland · 10-10-2016 05:14PM

Saw Shane byrne last week on tv3 after the dan carter tue and he said that no player would risk doping because one or two players could get rested at the end of the game.
That was the ens of the discussion.

Real head in the sand stuff imo.

Cycling as spent a lot of time and effort tryin to clean itself up (often very incompetently been charitable here) and it seems to get hammered over it.

Other sports just seem to gloss over it as rogue individuals athletics for one not many talking about Russia but sky is constantly across the headlines.

Chuchote · 10-10-2016 09:19PM

Maybe the solution is to make all the asthmatics limit their entries to Paralympics and other disabled races. Then all the world records would be made by the disabled

CramCycle · 10-10-2016 11:40PM

paddy no 11 wrote: »

Could you please PM what GAA teams are doping? interested in any anecdotal evidence

I have none, interesting that the GAA have different rules to most other sports in regards doping controls. I have witnessed it at interclub level 20 years ago but that is not evidence at intercounty level.

How many doping controls have been done on intercounty players out of season?

MPFGLB · 10-10-2016 11:47PM

CramCycle wrote: »

I have none, interesting that the GAA have different rules to most other sports in regards doping controls. I have witnessed it at interclub level 20 years ago but that is not evidence at intercounty level.

How many doping controls have been done on intercounty players out of season?

http://www.clare.fm/sport/clare-hurlers-one-seven-teams-miss-drug-tests

MPFGLB · 10-10-2016 11:49PM

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/there-is-doping-in-the-gaa-and-thats-for-sure-says-double-paralympic-gold-medallist-31211838.html

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/paul-kimmage-connolly-not-the-first-gaa-player-to-use-steroids-and-he-wont-be-the-last-31317362.html

buffalo · 11-10-2016 08:10AM

On the more general topic of TUEs... Rugby accounts for over a quarter of TUEs

Of the 43 granted, 28 per cent - or 12, were rugby to players. Next on the list was athletics with 19 per cent and GAA on 9 per cent. Cycling, a sport with a long association with doping, accounted for 7 per cent, with motorcycling and motorsport both on six per cent each.

In this context, rugby covers international teams across men’s and women’s teams at all age grades up to full international and the provincial sides. That’s a pool of less than 500 players.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2016/1010/822937-rugby-accounts-for-over-a-quarter-of-tues/

ford2600 · 11-10-2016 08:30AM

MPFGLB wrote: »

And what gets me also is there are so many whose only interested in cycling is to 'debate' the doping agenda ...or follow the voices of gloom

There is no real objectivity with regard to the sport as a whole ...

Who on here is so quick to call cyclists cheats are calling GAA footballers /hurlers cheats and there are plenty of them ?
Or Irish rugby players ?

Or even that bothereed to investiagte or find the 'truth' in these sports yet they seem so concerned with all at SKY

BUt as I said before you can support fairness and not back doping ...but for many if you are not with them you are against them

How many who want to hang SKY as hypocrits are just as hypocritical (in turning a blind eye) to the many county teams who are on substances and laud these athletics as local heros

While I'd have my own suspicions with certain GAA teams, have you any actual proof of who these many cheats are?

A para Olympic athlete and a journalist airing their suspicions and one 23 yr old using steroids to make Monaghan senior panel isn't evidence of "plenty".

What substances are they on? Which teams? Is it county board administered or is it management doing a solo run?

Is it at club level. all inter county or just top tier? Or do you actual know anything specific? If it's just an anti GAA rant work away

MPFGLB · 11-10-2016 08:43AM

Is it at club level. all inter county or just top tier? Or do you actual know anything specific? If it's just an anti GAA rant work away

What anti GAA rant ? I said there is use among GAA as outlined in the above articles

Of course if GAA is suspect its an anti GAA rant ...says it all

But everyone knows cycling is all drugs ? They ar all at it is the usual cry? Everyone in cycling is damned by the few not so the GAA ?

Just the kind of response one expects

ford2600 · 11-10-2016 08:47AM

MPFGLB wrote: »

What anti GAA rant ? I said there is use among GAA as outlined in the above articles

Of course if GAA is suspect its an anti GAA rant ...says it all

But everyone knows cycling is all drugs ? They ar all at it is the usual cry? Everyone in cycling is damned by the few not so the GAA ?

Just the kind of response one expects

The articles gave suspicions of two individuals, Kimmage and a para Olympic athlete. The only evidence of cheating was one positive test by a 23 year old.

What evidence do you have to extrapolate to many/plenty?

None I take it?

In the absence of evidence to back up your claim it probably fits this definition?
https://www.google.ie/?gws_rd=ssl#q=rant+definition

MPFGLB · 11-10-2016 08:59AM

rant : speak or shout at length in an angry, impassioned way.

I spoke at length about how unfair that cycling carries all the bad press
No anger or even impassioned

My views are from articles like above and what I have heard from county players from one GAA team

Of course your use of derogatory terms about my views is typical shoot the messanger

ford2600 · 11-10-2016 09:10AM

MPFGLB wrote: »

rant : speak or shout at length in an angry, impassioned way.

I spoke at length about how unfair that cycling carries all the bad press
No anger or even impassioned

My views are from articles like above and what I have heard from county players from one GAA team

Of course your use of derogatory terms about my views is typical shoot the messanger

So no evidence? Opinion pieces aren't evidence.

I'd have my own suspicions about a few teams in particular, but have no evidence. Without evidence sweeping statement are just ranting.

It is easy enough to make a case that the GAA anti doping stance is lax, not taken seriously by the administrators/players/media/management (there is evidence of that) but no evidence of wide scale doping.

Choosing to defend cycling by slagging of Rugby/GAA without evidence is not the strongest position to start with? Expect to get called on it. The body of evidence of doping in cycling over many generations is staggering, comparing that to GAA where you provided evidence of one failed test is hardly a robust argument and closer to the rant category?

pelevin · 11-10-2016 09:29AM

To bring this back to Wiggins, has it been mentioned or intimated how Matt Lawton of the Mail got this info about the medical package? Very odd to come to light several years later & requiring very specific info about something far more likely to have stayed totally unknown. Could he have already been in possession of the knowledge from well back but the climate wasn't right? - in that it wouldn't have made much of a ripple or been any appetite in Britain for such until the Fancy Bears stuff came out & all the furore that followed. Or what?

cloonamnaman · 11-10-2016 10:25AM

New comment on TUE use by Nicholas Roche in The Guardian.
He is emphatic again here, calling it like more pro's should be.

MPFGLB · 11-10-2016 10:28AM

ford2600 wrote: »

So no evidence? Opinion pieces aren't evidence.

I'd have my own suspicions about a few teams in particular, but have no evidence. Without evidence sweeping statement are just ranting.

It is easy enough to make a case that the GAA anti doping stance is lax, not taken seriously by the administrators/players/media/management (there is evidence of that) but no evidence of wide scale doping.

Choosing to defend cycling by slagging of Rugby/GAA without evidence is not the strongest position to start with? Expect to get called on it. The body of evidence of doping in cycling over many generations is staggering, comparing that to GAA where you provided evidence of one failed test is hardly a robust argument and closer to the rant category?

Maybe I don't have hard evidence becaue no one has bothered to investiage ...

This is an opinion forum and I am sharing opinions and I have as I said conversatiosn about testosterone use in GAA (but its not hard evidence) plus this just in about rugby

https://twitter.com/PaulKimmage/status/785564654240141312

That you dont like it you call it ranting .say I am attacking GAA & Rugby while stating a valid opinion ..(not so for outlandish claims about ALL cyclists being dopers that are often expressed on here..where is your defense of this )

But willing to use derogatory terms if GAA/rugby brought into the spotlight

As i said says it all ....this is what we are up against

I

ford2600 · 11-10-2016 10:40AM

MPFGLB wrote: »

Maybe I don't have hard evidence becaue no one has bothered to investiage ...

This is an opinion forum and I am sharing opinions and I have as I said conversatiosn about testosterone use in GAA (but its not hard evidence) plus this just in about rugby

https://twitter.com/PaulKimmage/status/785564654240141312

That you dont like it you call it ranting .say I am attacking GAA & Rugby while stating a valid opinion ..(not so for outlandish claims about ALL cyclists being dopers that are often expressed on here..where is your defense of this )

But willing to use derogatory terms if GAA/rugby brought into the spotlight

As i said says it all ....this is what we are up against

It's not that I don't like it(I've stated twice I have my own suspicions), it's that you claim many are cheats, yet when asked for evidence you have none. Don't look for a higher standard with regard to cycling while having such a low bar in relation to other sports and expect to be taken seriously.

I heard about testosterone doesn't quite cut.

Classifying an opinion as a rant, which paints two sports with the same brush, without any evidence and comparing them to a sport with (along with athletics) the most notorious history of doping is really that unfair?

If you are going to be offended when called on an unsubstantiated opinion not much I can do for you

happytramp · 11-10-2016 05:20PM

ford2600 wrote: »

Classifying an opinion as a rant, which paints two sports with the same brush, without any evidence and comparing them to a sport with (along with athletics) the most notorious history of doping is really that unfair?

Yes it is. There was nothing approaching a 'rant'.

RobFowl · 11-10-2016 06:52PM

happytramp wrote: »

Yes it is. There was nothing approaching a 'rant'.

A message to all

Beasty · 11-10-2016 07:43PM

Rob's the one with the yellow jersey and black 'tash

Cantona's Collars · 15-10-2016 12:25AM

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-3838882/Sir-Bradley-Wiggins-new-drugs-storm-British-cycling-star-s-test-blunder-just-three-months-Rio-Olympics-revealed.html

Sir Bradley Wiggins has been embroiled in a new drugs storm
Wiggins committed a 'whereabouts failure' before the Rio Olympics
The failure occurred just three months before Wiggins won gold in Brazil
Wiggins committed other failures, believed to be between 2005 and 2009
The 36-year-old previously criticised Lizzie Deignan following her three missed drugs tests ahead of the Games
The latest news leaves Wiggins open to accusations of severe hypocrisy
Wiggins remains a central figure in a UK Anti-Doping investigation into ‘allegations of wrongdoing in cycling’

Wiggins/Froome Asthma

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