Wiggins/Froome Asthma

mloc123

Fancy Bears have released a number of TUE details on Froome and Wiggins over night.

At one point Wiggins asthma was so bad that he was on three separate medications twice a day... makes his achievements all the more impressive.

Froome seems to have been luckier, only needing one.

robinph

The number of inhalers you may be using isn't related to their strengths or even exactly what purpose they are for.



It is odd that they released Wiggins and Froome data, along with a couple of other people that no one has ever heard of. They must be rubbish hackers and only got a tiny bit of data, or they are rubbish at the propaganda and think that details of Joe Bloggs who plays rugby 7s will be of interest to anyone. Sure there are TUE for much more sports people on the scale of famous between Wiggins and Joe Bloggs.

Rambling Man

There are a lot of references in this story to confidentiality of medical records. I always had the impression TUEs were a matter of public record in cycling?

mloc123

robinph wrote: »

It is odd that they released Wiggins and Froome data, along with a couple of other people that no one has ever heard of. They must be rubbish hackers and only got a tiny bit of data, or they are rubbish at the propaganda and think that details of Joe Bloggs who plays rugby 7s will be of interest to anyone. Sure there are TUE for much more sports people on the scale of famous between Wiggins and Joe Bloggs.

I would assume they have a full set of data, I think the bigger job for them would be grouping/organising it all. As for the the details released so far, British names are all pretty high profile ones?

1bryan

Fancy Bears would be a good name for a cafe

robinph

mloc123 wrote: »

I would assume they have a full set of data, I think the bigger job for them would be grouping/organising it all. As for the the details released so far, British names are all pretty high profile ones?

Other than Wiggins and Froome they are nobody that any who isn't mad into that particular sport will have ever heard of.

mloc123

robinph wrote: »

Other than Wiggins and Froome they are nobody that any who isn't mad into that particular sport will have ever heard of.

Kinda like Froome and Wiggins are to anyone that doesn't care about cycling then?

Macy0161

salbutamol doesn't even require a TUE anymore does it? The other inhaler for wiggins is the one that Yates got done for isn't it? I was always a skeptic on the levels of exercise induced asthma, until being diagnosed! I can't say I notice any performance improvement, except not needing so many bushman blows...

I think we already knew the Froome ones from Romandie and the Dauphine didn't we? Those are more eyebrow raising for me than asthma medication that has limited (if any, hence some of them coming off the banned list) performance enhancing for those not affected by asthma or allergies.

irishrover99

So is Asthma the new in thing for cyclists. Where can i get me some of this?

robinph

mloc123 wrote: »

Kinda like Froome and Wiggins are to anyone that doesn't care about cycling then?

Nope, Wiggins will be known by majority of people who watch any sport in the UK and also amongst a lot of those who don't watch any sport, Froome not as much but he does still get a bit of coverage on headline news when winning that ride around Paris each year. Nowhere near the same as Wiggins profile though. Wiggins got a massive amount of coverage in the general olympimania from London.

A_Sober_Paddy

Yeah "asthma"

Macy0161

irishrover99 wrote: »

So is Asthma the new in thing for cyclists. Where can i get me some of this?

It's not new, and it's not just for cyclists. Exercise induced asthma is a "thing" across all professional sports.

mloc123

robinph wrote: »

Nope, Wiggins will be known by majority of people who watch any sport in the UK and also amongst a lot of those who don't watch any sport, Froome not as much but he does still get a bit of coverage on headline news when winning that ride around Paris each year. Nowhere near the same as Wiggins profile though. Wiggins got a massive amount of coverage in the general olympimania from London.

I would bet if I asked any of my co-workers beside me here... they are as likely to know who Charley Hull is as Wiggins. Anyway, that is off point... I suspect in the coming weeks there will be more and more data leaked on the athletes in between.

Team GB do have a surprisingly high number of cyclists suffering from Asthma for sure.

Carawaystick

irishrover99 wrote: »

So is Asthma the new in thing for cyclists. Where can i get me some of this?

Asthma is the thing for almost all elite athletes, if you don't have it, the chances of you being a champ are greatly reduced....

Crocked

A lot of Irish rugby players used to have asthma, one even served a ban for not doing the paperwork properly. Not sure if it's as prevalent these days.

It's amazing how many professional athletes seem to suffer from it!

ratracer

Good damn it I knew there was a reason I'm not a pro..... No Asthma!!!

mossym

be mroe interesting to see how many of the asthma sufferers had it from birth or developed as a child.

as opposed to developing symptoms later in life, as can happen when you come off of some medicines which my improve performance

RobFowl

irishrover99 wrote: »

So is Asthma the new in thing for cyclists. Where can i get me some of this?

Here ?

DanDublin1982

This is one I can identify with somewhat having used various Asthma medications for the guts of 30 years at this stage. Without it I wouldn't be up to much exercise wise but with it I can go for 100km+ cycles without a bother. I didn't have to use my inhaler on tbe GDBR for instance but used it maybe three times earlier in the year when doing a sportive that brought us up the sally and Wicklow gaps. All sorts of things determine how often im using my inhaler but the thing that makes the biggest difference to me is the more exercise i do the less i need it.

But that's me and everyone who has asthma is affected differently.

dastardly00

mossym wrote: »

as opposed to developing symptoms later in life, as can happen when you come off of some medicines which my improve performance

Link?

NIMAN

Surely if its ok to use these medications and they don't give you an advantage, just take them off the banned list?

Amazing the number of professional athletes who have these conditions. Makes you wonder.

Crocked

DanDublin1982 wrote: »

This is one I can identify with somewhat having used various Asthma medications for the guts of 30 years at this stage. Without it I wouldn't be up to much exercise wise but with it I can go for 100km+ cycles without a bother. I didn't have to use my inhaler on tbe GDBR for instance but used it maybe three times earlier in the year when doing a sportive that brought us up the sally and Wicklow gaps. All sorts of things determine how often im using my inhaler but the thing that makes the biggest difference to me is the more exercise i do the less i need it.

But that's me and everyone who has asthma is affected differently.

But you're not using it to compete at the very highest level of sport, just for everyday life.

I don't know why someone who has asthma should be able to take a drug so they can compete at world level but I can't take a drug to make my puny legs stronger so I can compete at a world level. In fairness even if I did dope myself to the gills I still wouldn't be at a world level!

Their reason is unfortunately their lungs are ****e, my issue are my legs are ****e. Why should one be deemed tough luck and the other here you go take some drugs.

robinph

NIMAN wrote: »

Amazing the number of professional athletes who have these conditions. Makes you wonder.

Not really, just that they are more closely monitored regarding their health and care more than the general population if they get out of breath walking up the stairs, or if they can't breath properly during pollen season etc.

Macy0161

NIMAN wrote: »

Surely if its ok to use these medications and they don't give you an advantage, just take them off the banned list?

Amazing the number of professional athletes who have these conditions. Makes you wonder.

Salbutamol for the levels in Wiggins TUE's on that hack is off the banned list and doesn't need a TUE. I think there's an expectation the other inhaler is going to be taken off too.

My own experience was that I was only diagnosed in my late 30's with exercise induced asthma. Now that's partly because I wasn't fit/ doing any exercise up until then really! I put the symptoms down to hayfever, until they persisted beyond hayfever season and were present when the pollen count was low too. As it turns out, it does really help during peak pollen season as well as during exercise.

My doctor just went trial and error on the dosage (upping it until effective), but if you're willing to pay the money (or a pro) there are tests that can be done to find the specific dose required.

mossym

dastardly00 wrote: »

Link?

just google corticosteroids and specifically what happens if you stop using them

dastardly00

mossym wrote: »

just google corticosteroids and specifically what happens if you stop using them

It would be handier if you post up a good link rather than me wading through a tonne of Google search results, thanks

mossym

it would be handy if someone else cleaned my bike for me this evening but unfortunately i'll have to do that for myself too...

DanDublin1982

Crocked wrote: »

But you're not using it to compete at the very highest level of sport, just for everyday life.

I don't know why someone who has asthma should be able to take a drug so they can compete at world level but I can't take a drug to make my puny legs stronger so I can compete at a world level. In fairness even if I did dope myself to the gills I still wouldn't be at a world level!

Their reason is unfortunately their lungs are ****e, my issue are my legs are ****e. Why should one be deemed tough luck and the other here you go take some drugs.

I'm pretty agnostic as to whether it's right or wrong. Merely saying I can relate to it.

dastardly00

mossym wrote: »

it would be handy if someone else cleaned my bike for me this evening but unfortunately i'll have to do that for myself too...

You had made an interesting statement, and I was interested in reading more about it. I asked for a link, but you're not arsed. Fair enough so

mossym

dastardly00 wrote: »

You had made an interesting statement, and I was interested in reading more about it. I asked for a link, but you're not arsed. Fair enough so

i don't have a single link that points a smoking gun, which is what you seem to be looking for. i follow several people on twitter and other places who i would consider well versed in the area and they have commented on it, and i've seen a few scientific papers on it that they have linked which back up the theory. most or at least some of those papers will show up if you google it, which i've already suggested, and if you find it interesting enough to want to read about it then the next step seems simple enough

longshanks

Which Twitter accounts?

mossym

to get you started,Ross Tucker Antoine Vayer, F7ck the Hypocricy.lots more, but i'm not going back through 4 days of my twitter feed to see who posted . twitter will only allow short statements, you want to understand what they are claiming, or look into it to see if you believe it or not, then you need to do your own research

Chuchote

One of the Irish marathon stars also had asthma. Treacy…?

It's one of those illnesses that's become increasingly common; hard to know if it's that it's more often diagnosed (my feeling is that this is not the reason), or if it's caused by some environmental factor/s.

morana

a few a very small number I bet suffer from asthma but for the rest as vaughters says
"go to camp, consume corticos, lose 4kgs, come back, stop taking corticos, race 4kgs lighter"

morana

like i need this asthma

desertcircus

I did read two things that go part of the way to indicating why cycling appears to have a high number of asthma sufferers. The first is that when searching for a sport for their kid to do, parents of kids with asthma often opt for cycling, because it's more of a steady-state sport than something like football or tennis and therefore a more manageable sport for someone with the condition. As a result, the kids that do well are disproportionately likely to have asthma rather than any other condition. The second is that as you go up the tiers in the sport, and particularly when you become a professional, your body starts getting exposed to punishments that don't really exist in most sports - cycling for an hour up a climb in thin air for several days in a row at the Giro, for example. When you're already dealing with a sport that overselects for asthma sufferers as per the previous point, the effect of a ride up the Stelvio puts people under stresses that a normal person would never come within a mile of experiencing. As a result, you end up with a peloton that has an overrepresented cohort of asthma sufferers, racing courses that might as well have been designed to trigger asthma.

callaway92

desertcircus wrote: »

I did read two things that go part of the way to indicating why cycling appears to have a high number of asthma sufferers. The first is that when searching for a sport for their kid to do, parents of kids with asthma often opt for cycling, because it's more of a steady-state sport than something like football or tennis and therefore a more manageable sport for someone with the condition. As a result, the kids that do well are disproportionately likely to have asthma rather than any other condition. The second is that as you go up the tiers in the sport, and particularly when you become a professional, your body starts getting exposed to punishments that don't really exist in most sports - cycling for an hour up a climb in thin air for several days in a row at the Giro, for example. When you're already dealing with a sport that overselects for asthma sufferers as per the previous point, the effect of a ride up the Stelvio puts people under stresses that a normal person would never come within a mile of experiencing. As a result, you end up with a peloton that has an overrepresented cohort of asthma sufferers, racing courses that might as well have been designed to trigger asthma.

Come on. . . . .

pelevin

morana wrote: »

like i need this asthma

In fairness if he's smoking whilst having asthma, then he'd really need the TUEs as of course he'd be more in need of such medications than others. It's bad enough being disadvantaged by having asthma without being so unlucky as to smoke as well.

mossym

morana wrote: »

a few a very small number I bet suffer from asthma but for the rest as vaughters says
"go to camp, consume corticos, lose 4kgs, come back, stop taking corticos, race 4kgs lighter"

And , as I was saying above, once you stop taking, one of the side affects is increased risk of asthma attacks. With respect to the rules about speculation on PEDs I m not going to name specific cases but anyone who follows the sport will know of cases of TUEs for sudden asthma attacks.

pelevin

Actually just came to me what Wiggins should respond with if questioned about the asthma, the TUEs & the smoking.

"I didn't inhale."

Just leave them with that line, no further explaining, & the beauty of this line being that it could apply to the inhalers or the fags.

morana

mossym wrote: »

And , as I was saying above, once you stop taking, one of the side affects is increased risk of asthma attacks. With respect to the rules about speculation on PEDs I m not going to name specific cases but anyone who follows the sport will know of cases of TUEs for sudden asthma attacks.

but its not about the asthma its about losing weight

mossym

morana wrote: »

but its not about the asthma its about losing weight

Aye, the asthma attacks afterwards are the side effect.

Chuchote

Further to @desertcircus's description, cycling can be a kind of breathing meditation, which is great for asthma.

morana

mossym wrote: »

Aye, the asthma attacks afterwards are the side effect.

if you have it in the first place

Chuchote

morana wrote: »

if you have it in the first place

One of the reasons that asthma isn't one of those long-term illnesses that warrant granting of a medical card (even though it is) is that a lot of people get bronchitis from smoking, and so are prescribed the same kind of medications.

morana

Chuchote wrote: »

One of the reasons that asthma isn't one of those long-term illnesses that warrant granting of a medical card (even though it is) is that a lot of people get bronchitis from smoking, and so are prescribed the same kind of medications.

look look at riders who dropped a stack of weight before the tour specifically in a short period. How did they do it and ride at the front of the bunch....in the mountains???

its nothing to do with asthma.

Chuchote

Sorry, I'm thick, didn't realise some people were saying the drug results were from taking steroids for power, not to cure asthma (if that's what people are saying). I was still talking about the fact that some athletes are stars despite actually having asthma. But maybe they weren't. On the other hand, if that's so, why amn't I racing up mountains, I've been taking the stuff for years!

mloc123

Chuchote wrote: »

Sorry, I'm thick, didn't realise some people were saying the drug results were from taking steroids for power, not to cure asthma (if that's what people are saying). I was still talking about the fact that some athletes are stars despite actually having asthma. But maybe they weren't. On the other hand, if that's so, why amn't I racing up mountains, I've been taking the stuff for years!

I should have included this smiley in my original post....

desertcircus

callaway92 wrote: »

Come on. . . . .

If you think there's an error in what I wrote, or that it's not sufficient to explain the apparent prevalence in the peloton of asthma, then by all means address it.

callaway92

desertcircus wrote: »

If you think there's an error in what I wrote, or that it's not sufficient to explain the apparent prevalence in the peloton of asthma, then by all means address it.

It's a load of bullshít. There's your error.

lenihankevin

desertcircus wrote:

If you think there's an error in what I wrote, or that it's not sufficient to explain the apparent prevalence in the peloton of asthma, then by all means address it.

Methinks ur fact that kids with asthma are more likely to cycle than other less aerobically demanding sports is made up gibberish.