Senior gardaí ‘tried to destroy’ whistleblower

Water John · 06-10-2016 07:01PM

Yes indeed, the RUC treatment. It isn't as if we haven't a working example.
One which we pushed for, which is the joke of the matter.

tayto lover · 06-10-2016 07:34PM

The Garda does not need to be disbanded at all.
It just needs less political interference and proper management.

Hibrasil · 06-10-2016 08:42PM

mynamejeff wrote: »

how many scumbags do you think senior garda management deal with every day ? ..... for my money a uk style police management by qualified civilian staff would be a good step.

I regret to say that Senior Garda management have no interaction whatsoever with scumbags....the interaction with same is confined to those at the coalface who put their lives on the line every day...the Senior Management are generally from those who have positioned themselves in cushy numbers from which they can advance their careers without fear of any adverse criticisms.....and what has the present Commissioner recently done..... eradicated any civilians from her immediate senior circle... civilians are not to be trusted....they are not part of the force....speaks volumes....it quacks so it must be a duck!!!

Esel · 06-10-2016 10:30PM

golfball37 wrote: »

The sad thing about these scandals and the immediate denials from those at the top is it diminishes the respect afforded to the Gardaí who have done nothing wrong.

The guys making the allegations here are senior Gardaí with an unblemished record and a vocation to fighting crime.

The 'vocation' is knocked out of them in Templemore. Same in the RCC, except it happens in the seminary.

Esel · 06-10-2016 11:21PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Let's look at this logically. I have no time for some of the politicians calling for heads but something here doesn't add up.

First of all the new commissioner was Callinan's right hand person. She was in the room when Callinan referred to Whistleblowers as "disgusting".

I find it extremely unlikely that she didn't know the whistleblowers wouldn't be treated well.

He said their behaviour was disgusting. A subtle distinction.

Just before he said that, Noirin wrote something on a piece of paper and pushed it over to him. Some say she put the words in his mouth...

Esel · 06-10-2016 11:27PM

Bambi wrote: »

Sure we were told the gardee did'nt need to worry about the patten commission recommendations ..sure weren't they great lads already

I reckon you could fire the top 50 gardee from the commissioner down without any ill effect, they're just at the top for services rendered.

Gardee - I like it! Better than gaurds (sic) enanyway...

Prime Time tonight named names. This is not going away anytime soon...

Moo Moo Land · 06-10-2016 11:29PM

Esel wrote: »

Prime Time tonight named names. This is not going away anytime soon...

I hope not. Most Irish people are too weak to demand better and will fob it off as a "few bad eggs" and "it doesn't affect me" etc etc

_Kaiser_ · 07-10-2016 12:08AM

tayto lover wrote: »

The Garda does not need to be disbanded at all.
It just needs less political interference and proper management.

Unfortunately not drastic enough - not when you can have an orchestrated internal campaign against whistleblowers with both senior and line officers involved.

As I've said already, there are of course many good and decent individuals who take the responsibilities of the job seriously, but there are lot more than just a few bad apples I'm afraid.

This is just the latest scandal, and one of the few that have been made public over the years. The fact this stuff goes back decades tells you how ingrained it is in the culture of AGS.

But, for balance, it's no different than our political class either - which in turn is a reflection of the many "cute hoor", selfish, parochial, insecure and jealous Irish that still inhabit this country generally.

Not only does AGS and our political system need a clear-out but we really need to "grow up" as a nation as well. Sad state of affairs really that only 100 years since the Rising and we've bankrupted the place several times, stumbled from scandal to scandal and engage in the same divisive "me/us vs them" mindset that the corrupt and the incompetent thrive upon to maintain the status quo. Given this, personally I question whether we were really ready to be let at the controls of a country.

Dyr · 07-10-2016 12:10AM

Esel wrote: »

Gardee - I like it! Better than gaurds (sic) enanyway...

Prime Time tonight named names. This is not going away anytime soon...

Could be some people like to spell irish words literally to lampoon the subject, moryah

Keep up the good work and you'll make detective.

ChikiChiki · 07-10-2016 12:20AM

Moo Moo Land wrote: »

I hope not. Most Irish people are too weak to demand better and will fob it off as a "few bad eggs" and "it doesn't affect me" etc etc

There's no shortage of thickos on this island.

_Kaiser_ · 07-10-2016 12:29AM

ChikiChiki wrote: »

There's no shortage of thickos on this island.

It's not necessarily thick.. it's more a fundamental selfishness and an inability to see beyond anything that doesn't immediately affect them - unless it's BECAUSE it doesn't directly benefit/affect them. There's no concept of what's good for the many/country - only what's good for "me"

Take the whole "feckin Dubs" thing that gets people like the Healy Rae's elected and which is perpetuated by the GAA. It's this nonsense that has the city crippled from an infrastructure point of view because rural politicians can't be seen to support anything that will lose them votes back home... nevermind that without the economic benefits Dublin generates, most of those people "back home" would be living in poverty.

This country has made internal division and pitting one side against another an art form. Last week it was the bus drivers.. this week it's the Gardai - but in the long run fook all actual PROGRESS to improving the country and the services it depends on (political, law/police, social etc) is made and the same pattern repeats itself endlessly - because unless it directly impacts someone, they don't give a toss

darkpagandeath · 07-10-2016 12:32AM

What happened to the protection for Whistle blowers should that not be centre stage on this regardless of politics ?

07-10-2016 12:35AM

The top few ranks in AGS do need to go.
Not because of corruption per se, but because they are acting like children.
All this whistleblower stuff, it's all personalities really.
Someone f##cked over someone else, now the first someone is trying to f##k over the original!!
It's schoolyard stuff, & they all need to go!

07-10-2016 12:59AM

I can imagine a whistleblower in Ireland is subjected to something similar to this from their superiors when they come forward

http://a69.g.akamai.net/n/69/10688/v1/img5.allocine.fr/acmedia/medias/nmedia/18/79/85/57/19534876.jpg

"These are for you McNulty"

My name is URL · 07-10-2016 12:50PM

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-chief-personally-told-of-smear-campaign-35111146.html

Garda chief 'personally told of smear campaign'

It's understood the highly damaging claim is contained in a protected disclosure provided to Tánaiste and Justice Minister Frances Fitzgerald last week.

Superintendent David Taylor, the officer behind the explosive allegations, last night met Fianna Fáil leader Micheál Martin and his Chef de Cabinet Deirdre Gilliane in Leinster House.

During the 90-minute meeting, Supt Taylor claimed senior Garda management orchestrated a campaign to discredit the character of Sgt McCabe.

It's understood he has also claimed in his disclosure that Ms O'Sullivan was made aware of the campaign through text messages and other forms of communication.

Moo Moo Land · 07-10-2016 12:56PM

The more I hear from Fitzgerald, the more convinced I am that she is very very weak. I am amazed she is a minister in fact. She has to be coached as much as Enda to be able to handle interviews.

Hibrasil · 07-10-2016 01:31PM

Moo Moo Land wrote: »

The more I hear from Fitzgerald, the more convinced I am that she is very very weak. I am amazed she is a minister in fact. She has to be coached as much as Enda to be able to handle interviews.

Remember the time when she actually became a Minister....the news of the day was "up to its ears" in stories about what went on in the orphanages of yester-year and how terrible it all was for those in them ......She became Minister for Children and instead of immediately asking herself the very relevant question of could this actually be happening in some way today to children....she waited until RTE broke the story about what was really happening in creches.....but then again I suppose she was too busy getting herself into the picture beside Enda when the cameras were rolling.....and if you listen to what she says at times....it's all about...I....I....I. Not a pretty picture.

seamus · 07-10-2016 01:45PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

You can't think that repercussions are a side issue to A) How the Gardai progress from this and how the public view the Gardai?

What I really mean is that the specific legal repercussions are somewhat not that important. If there are no repercussions, that's an issue obviously, because it makes people unlikely to come forward in future.

But the fact that this already hasn't been ignored. That the commissioner and the minister are getting savaged over it, already indicates that when you blow the whistle, the public sit up and notice.

So even if nothing more than a resignation or two were to come of this, from the Garda point of view it's clear that you won't be ignored if you come forward.
Even if nobody ends up in prison over it, provided it's clear that whistleblowing has a positive impact generally, it will encourage those who feel the need to speak up.

There are still some people calling it a disgrace that Callinan isn't in prison, but they've missed the bigger picture - that the disgrace of Callinan and Shatter was likely a causative factor in encouraging these Gardai to come forward. Callinan being prosecuted would be a cherry on top, but not actually that important - the reputational damage is done, the power and importance of whistleblowing has been demonstrated.

Moo Moo Land · 07-10-2016 03:40PM

Hibrasil wrote: »

Remember the time when she actually became a Minister....the news of the day was "up to its ears" in stories about what went on in the orphanages of yester-year and how terrible it all was for those in them ......She became Minister for Children and instead of immediately asking herself the very relevant question of could this actually be happening in some way today to children....she waited until RTE broke the story about what was really happening in creches.....but then again I suppose she was too busy getting herself into the picture beside Enda when the cameras were rolling.....and if you listen to what she says at times....it's all about...I....I....I. Not a pretty picture.

Yes she was a terrible Minister for Children too. Completely coasting.

tayto lover · 07-10-2016 04:00PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Unfortunately not drastic enough - not when you can have an orchestrated internal campaign against whistleblowers with both senior and line officers involved.

As I've said already, there are of course many good and decent individuals who take the responsibilities of the job seriously, but there are lot more than just a few bad apples I'm afraid.

This is just the latest scandal, and one of the few that have been made public over the years. The fact this stuff goes back decades tells you how ingrained it is in the culture of AGS.

But, for balance, it's no different than our political class either - which in turn is a reflection of the many "cute hoor", selfish, parochial, insecure and jealous Irish that still inhabit this country generally.

Not only does AGS and our political system need a clear-out but we really need to "grow up" as a nation as well. Sad state of affairs really that only 100 years since the Rising and we've bankrupted the place several times, stumbled from scandal to scandal and engage in the same divisive "me/us vs them" mindset that the corrupt and the incompetent thrive upon to maintain the status quo. Given this, personally I question whether we were really ready to be let at the controls of a country.

Surely the vast majority of the people involved in the Donegal scandal are now gone.

The problem as I see it is with the senior management and the promotion system. All this should be done by an independent Board and by doing away with political appointments, in fact an independent Board would prevent it happening in the future as nobody would be beholding to anyone else in order to get promotion as seems to be the case up to now.

The junior ranks always take the brunt of any scandal as sh*t always flows down-stream and this seems to be in order to protect those above. I believe that a civilian or outside Commissioner should be appointed and not a Govt lackey as is the case up to now.

From a personal point of view any dealings I have had with the Garda on the ground has been nothing but positive but I can see how senior officers could use them as they have to obey orders. With an independent Board and Commissioner they might have someone to go to in order to report wrong-doing without them suffering for it as is the case now.

Water John · 07-10-2016 09:42PM

Hearing The Minister, one can hear straight away when she is under pressure.
she was in the Dail.

Really time out on all this.

Henwin · 07-10-2016 10:14PM

anyone following gareth o callahans facebook page, the are some serious claims as to what is going on with the philip cairns case, top gardai and fianna fail politicians apparantly involved in a cover up over the whole thing and a former taoisigh knew all about it, it seems the body is buried in the garden of a senior doctor to the guards and is now deceased. could people really be that cold that they could not disclose information into the disappearance of a young boy

Moo Moo Land · 07-10-2016 11:38PM

Henwin wrote: »

anyone following gareth o callahans facebook page, the are some serious claims as to what is going on with the philip cairns case, top gardai and fianna fail politicians apparantly involved in a cover up over the whole thing and a former taoisigh knew all about it, it seems the body is buried in the garden of a senior doctor to the guards and is now deceased. could people really be that cold that they could not disclose information into the disappearance of a young boy

They are discussing it on Late Late now. There is something very dodgy about that case alright.

Senior gardaí ‘tried to destroy’ whistleblower

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