Mayo GAA Discussion Part 2

cocoman · 06-10-2016 09:54PM

km79 wrote: »

Just reading Ed mcgreals latest article
He says Rochfords 7 week old child is in the Chikdrens hospital in Cumlin
Perspective

Hopefully the little lad will be ok. It certainly puts everything into perspective alright when you're sitting in that room in Crumlin.

washman3 · 06-10-2016 10:41PM

SeanJ09 wrote: »

Aos nomitted on reputation alone. Bar the Tyrone game he was fairly in effective for large parts. Clarke, Harrison and Keegan should get their all Stars. I'd say Durcan and Boyle are in with a good shout too.

Ya, definitely. Further proof that these All-Stars are a complete joke. The fact that he already has 2 proves the complete farce that they have become. He has good buddies in the media and gives interviews at the drop of a hat, plus the 'hulk like' impersonation he gives at every final whistle for the cameras.
It actually says just as much about those charged with picking the awards than it does about him.! did a single one of them every actually play a junior b game.?
Doubt it.
Clarke will just about lose out to Cluxton, tough call.
Harrison and Keegan deserved.
Boyle, a very close call, may shade it.
Durcan may be edged out slightly but would be my young POTY.
And I would have COC in there too

AOS was anonymous V Galway, likewise V Fermanagh (cheating aside) average to reasonable V Tyrone (nothing more) waved the 'imaginary black card' to get Kavanagh sent off. Anonymous V Kildare and for the most part anymous in the final and replay. Totally non-existent in the second half last Sunday when the need was greatest.

washman3 · 06-10-2016 10:46PM

Kalyke wrote: »

"In case you can't make that out, the investment per player in Dublin is €274.70. The next nearest is €68.17, in Fermanagh. Third is Longford, at €62.30.

Beaten All-Ireland finalists Mayo have received €22.30. Kerry got €19 per player, while Donegal - the team Dublin beat in the quarter-final - pulled in €20.10 per player"
Article by Gavin Cooney. Figures given are per registered player in a given county. Anyone else want to argue its a level playing field?

What utter rubbish. You need to find a better pastime and get out more bud.
The kind of tripe we would expect to read in the rugby forums when Toulon beat Leinster or Munster.
Dublin have 15 players on the pitch, so do their opposition.

Needles73 · 06-10-2016 10:51PM

washman3 wrote: »

What utter rubbish. You need to find a better pastime and get out more bud.
The kind of tripe we would expect to read in the rugby forums when Toulon beat Leinster or Munster.
Dublin have 15 players on the pitch, so do their opposition.

So you don't see any correlation between increased money pumped into Dublin GAA and recent success...are u for real ?

washman3 · 06-10-2016 11:00PM

Needles73 wrote: »

So you don't see any correlation between increased money pumped into Dublin GAA and recent success...are u for real ?

Applying that logic would mean that Dublin would win every A.I. from here to 2050 along with every 1 for the last 20 years. But they didn't or wont. Stupid logic.
Explain to me why my county, Limerick cannot win a hurling A.I. despite having a blank cheque book from J.P. (which would dwarf what Dublin can get)

I can explain, we simply don't have players good enough.

The Talking Bread · 06-10-2016 11:17PM

washman3 wrote: »

Applying that logic would mean that Dublin would win every A.I. from here to 2050 along with every 1 for the last 20 years. But they didn't or wont. Stupid logic.
Explain to me why my county, Limerick cannot win a hurling A.I. despite having a blank cheque book from J.P. (which would dwarf what Dublin can get)

I can explain, we simply don't have players good enough.

Mate, there is a huge financial difference between the last 20 years or more in GAA than today and in the future, if you can't recognise that basic foundation, the argument that many put forward re Dublin's "advantage" is lost on you.

Dublin do have the massive potential to dominate GAA for years and decades to come. It is not that anyone is in denial of the fact that the players coming through aren't of top quality, it is more to do, that they are nurtured more professionally.

The money is by far not the be all and end all for a teams dominance, but it is a very big factor.
The game is edging on professionalism in terms of how teams are managed, players are looked after, facilities, medical teams, etc etc. Dublin have a greater financial backing to support them in this regard.
Surely you can acknowledge the benefits this brings.

washman3 · 06-10-2016 11:27PM

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Mate, there is a huge financial difference between the last 20 years or more in GAA than today and in the future, if you can't recognise that basic foundation, the argument that many put forward re Dublin's "advantage" is lost on you.

Dublin do have the massive potential to dominate GAA for years and decades to come. It is not that anyone is in denial of the fact that the players coming through aren't of top quality, it is more to do, that they are nurtured more professionally.

The money is by far not the be all and end all for a teams dominance, but it is a very big factor.
The game is edging on professionalism in terms of how teams are managed, players are looked after, facilities, medical teams, etc etc. Dublin have a greater financial backing to support them in this regard.
Surely you can acknowledge the benefits this brings.

Yes mate...!!!
And we have had the same advantage for the last 10 years with JP's money, yet haven't a single player that would make the present Tipp or Kilkenny teams.
Mayo lost the A.I. both days, not because of financial disadvantage, because they didn't have enough players with the bottle to stand up when it mattered most. Simple as.

The Talking Bread · 06-10-2016 11:32PM

ooops, thought I was in the gaelic football thread.

washman3 · 06-10-2016 11:34PM

The Talking Bread wrote: »

ooops, thought I was in the gaelic football thread.

With the kind of s###e you're spouting, you should be on the rugby threads.

The Talking Bread · 06-10-2016 11:53PM

washman3 wrote: »

With the kind of s###e you're spouting, you should be on the rugby threads.

Hurling, now rugby! Its gas that a Dublin fan spots onto a Mayo thread and tells people to go elsewhere!!!!

Your replies are extremely passive aggressive! I don't know why you are lurking on a Mayo thread as a Dublin fan, unless you are just looking to disagree and looking to be offended!

listen, if you can't understand the advantages financial backing right down to underage level, club level up to county level will bring to any sporting development, how talents will be nurtured, how competition will increase, etc etc etc, is there any point chatting,

Sure its Dublin against the World in your eyes!!

You mentioned hurling, if you can't acknowledge the giant strides Dublin have made in the last decade in hurling, again this conversation is lost on you.

You reap what you sow and Dublin have the support to sow well and to tend to excellently.

Anyway, stay here, if you are just around to be offended.

Ignorance is bliss at the end of the day.

Godge · 07-10-2016 12:07AM

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Hurling, now rugby! Its gas that a Dublin fan spots onto a Mayo thread and tells people to go elsewhere!!!!

Your replies are extremely passive aggressive! I don't know why you are lurking on a Mayo thread as a Dublin fan, unless you are just looking to disagree and looking to be offended!

listen, if you can't understand the advantages financial backing right down to underage level, club level up to county level will bring to any sporting development, how talents will be nurtured, how competition will increase, etc etc etc, is there any point chatting,

Sure its Dublin against the World in your eyes!!

You mentioned hurling, if you can't acknowledge the giant strides Dublin have made in the last decade in hurling, again this conversation is lost on you.

You reap what you sow and Dublin have the support to sow well and to tend to excellently.

Anyway, stay here, if you are just around to be offended.

Ignorance is bliss at the end of the day.

Eh, he's a Limerick fan, but that doesn't stop you posting on the Dublin thread, does it?

:D

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Mate, there is a huge financial difference between the last 20 years or more in GAA than today and in the future, if you can't recognise that basic foundation, the argument that many put forward re Dublin's "advantage" is lost on you.

Dublin do have the massive potential to dominate GAA for years and decades to come. It is not that anyone is in denial of the fact that the players coming through aren't of top quality, it is more to do, that they are nurtured more professionally.

The money is by far not the be all and end all for a teams dominance, but it is a very big factor.
The game is edging on professionalism in terms of how teams are managed, players are looked after, facilities, medical teams, etc etc. Dublin have a greater financial backing to support them in this regard.
Surely you can acknowledge the benefits this brings.

So now we are fearful of what Dublin might do, maybe 10 All-Irelands in 18 years? Just like Kerry from 1969 to 1986?

As I said on another thread, I am happy to discuss the issue sometime in the mid 2020s if Dublin have managed to repeat the dominance of a Kilkenny or a Kerry. Until then, this sort of stuff doesn't hold water.

washman3 · 07-10-2016 12:14AM

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Hurling, now rugby! Its gas that a Dublin fan spots onto a Mayo thread and tells people to go elsewhere!!!!

Your replies are extremely passive aggressive! I don't know why you are lurking on a Mayo thread as a Dublin fan, unless you are just looking to disagree and looking to be offended!

listen, if you can't understand the advantages financial backing right down to underage level, club level up to county level will bring to any sporting development, how talents will be nurtured, how competition will increase, etc etc etc, is there any point chatting,

Sure its Dublin against the World in your eyes!!

You mentioned hurling, if you can't acknowledge the giant strides Dublin have made in the last decade in hurling, again this conversation is lost on you.

You reap what you sow and Dublin have the support to sow well and to tend to excellently.

Anyway, stay here, if you are just around to be offended.

Ignorance is bliss at the end of the day.

Wrong on all counts. Limerick fan first and foremost. Sincerely wanted Mayo to win the football as they've suffered similar heartbreak to our hurlers over the years.
But like ourselves, they simply don't have enough players with bottle to drag them over the line. If money alone could change that for us there wouldn't be a problem. 3 U-21 titles on the trot in the 2000's yet only a handful of these players won even a provincial senior medal. Why? we simply weren't good enough to make the step up.
But at least we're honest enough to admit our own failures rather than bitch about another county's financial advantage.
And I've been posting on all GAA threads for many years, good times and bad, unlike you.
Have nothing but admiration for this present Dublin bunch though. Their achievements cannot be denied.

The Talking Bread · 07-10-2016 12:16AM

Of course it holds water. I am shocked neither of you can understand the basic premise that investment in anything in any walk of life, be it sports, education, etc will breed success.

Godge · 07-10-2016 12:19AM

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Of course it holds water. I am shocked neither of you can understand the basic premise that investment in anything in any walk of life, be it sports, education, etc will breed success.

I don't disagree - investment in increasing juvenile participation increases juvenile participation, that much is clear.

Stoner · 07-10-2016 12:20AM

The Talking Bread wrote:

ooops, thought I was in the gaelic football thread.

It's a Mayo GAA thread, hurling is fair game here. I've seen Keith Higgins hurling achievements mentioned more than once.

Needles73 · 07-10-2016 04:54AM

washman3 wrote: »

Wrong on all counts. Limerick fan first and foremost. Sincerely wanted Mayo to win the football as they've suffered similar heartbreak to our hurlers over the years.
But like ourselves, they simply don't have enough players with bottle to drag them over the line. If money alone could change that for us there wouldn't be a problem. 3 U-21 titles on the trot in the 2000's yet only a handful of these players won even a provincial senior medal. Why? we simply weren't good enough to make the step up.
But at least we're honest enough to admit our own failures rather than bitch about another county's financial advantage.
And I've been posting on all GAA threads for many years, good times and bad, unlike you.
Have nothing but admiration for this present Dublin bunch though. Their achievements cannot be denied.

Were Limerick GAA not in financial bother as recent as 2013 ? Where was JP ? I don't begrudge Dublin their success but I will bitch about the current inequality. The best team won the last day no question and fair play to them. But do you really think the lesser counties including limerick are getting a fair shake from central GAA coffers ? Surely future probability of success is enhanced with proper investment ? If limerick has all JP's vast funds your issues are either 1. No natural talent...,2. Inability to spend money properly.........,(Mayo would struggle with no 2 based on how we redeveloped Machale Park but we'd have a good crack at spending some more money !!)

Kalyke · 07-10-2016 07:22AM

washman3 wrote: »

Yes mate...!!!
And we have had the same advantage for the last 10 years with JP's money, yet haven't a single player that would make the present Tipp or Kilkenny teams.
Mayo lost the A.I. both days, not because of financial disadvantage, because they didn't have enough players with the bottle to stand up when it mattered most. Simple as.

Bottle??..... IGNORE!

kilns · 07-10-2016 08:01AM

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Of course it holds water. I am shocked neither of you can understand the basic premise that investment in anything in any walk of life, be it sports, education, etc will breed success.

The point is being missed it is how Dublin is structured. Look at their coaching set up, whatever money Dublin gets the vast vast majority goes into coaching in nearly every school and club in the county, it doesnt all go to prepare a professional team to destroy all the other poor counties. Also Dublin is one of the least political county boards in Ireland allowing them to put these things in place without petty squables that can hinder other counties.

Look at Cork for example, how much money is being wasted on the currenty vanity project down there and the state they are in. Alot of others could learn alot from how Dublin is run both on and off the pitch

PressRun · 07-10-2016 08:54AM

Threads being hijacked by people who have axes to grind or simply want to sneer is getting very tiresome.

The flying mouse · 07-10-2016 09:11AM

PressRun wrote: »

Threads being hijacked by people who have axes to grind or simply want to sneer is getting very tiresome.

Or maybe people getting a bit sick of the self-pity Mayo posts in which everybody and everything is getting blamed on another Mayo defeat.

I read elsewhere that 31 one counties were for Mayo on Saturday, and who could blame them, Even Dubs have a soft spot in hoping Mayo break through,But the continuing self-pity and Actually thinking that Mayo deserve a AI because ,well because they haven't won one is wearing a bit thin, I wouldent be thinking the 31 counties is still behind Mayo, The game is over you lost, think of your future in the league and championship, thats were you will make the break through not reminiscing about the what ifs from the past.

PressRun · 07-10-2016 09:21AM

The flying mouse wrote: »

PressRun wrote: »

Threads being hijacked by people who have axes to grind or simply want to sneer is getting very tiresome.

Or maybe people getting a bit sick of the self-pity Mayo posts in which everybody and everything is getting blamed on another Mayo defeat.

I read elsewhere that 31 one counties were for Mayo on Saturday, and who could blame them, Even Dubs have a soft spot in hoping Mayo break through,But the continuing self-pity and Actually thinking that Mayo deserve a AI because ,well because they haven't won one is wearing a bit thin, I wouldent be thinking the 31 counties is still behind Mayo, The game is over you lost, think of your future in the league and championship, thats were you will make the break through not reminiscing about the what ifs from the past.

And where have I done any self pitying or said that Mayo "deserve" an All-Ireland? Just because I think that it's pretty tiresome to see the same names cropping up again and again to engage in some triumphalism or sneery "I told you so" nonsense doesn't mean I believe in self pity.

The Talking Bread · 07-10-2016 09:41AM

kilns wrote: »

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Of course it holds water. I am shocked neither of you can understand the basic premise that investment in anything in any walk of life, be it sports, education, etc will breed success.

The point is being missed it is how Dublin is structured. Look at their coaching set up, whatever money Dublin gets the vast vast majority goes into coaching in nearly every school and club in the county, it doesnt all go to prepare a professional team to destroy all the other poor counties. Also Dublin is one of the least political county boards in Ireland allowing them to put these things in place without petty squables that can hinder other counties.

Look at Cork for example, how much money is being wasted on the currenty vanity project down there and the state they are in. Alot of others could learn alot from how Dublin is run both on and off the pitch

But it's essentially what I said. If money is invested in the development of any sports at grassroot up to senior level it will breed success. Without going too deeply into sports development and talent nurturing, finances are a big factor in building foundations. It's a simple premise. Hence why I find it bizarre people don't get it. It's also part of all sport. And I don't begrudge the development of football. You can't point out any advantage Dublin may have as a county w/o some taking offence as if it's some personal attack on their players. It's simple, Dublin are nurturing gaelic games and the game is thriving, clubs are well funded, participation is huge, breeding more competition and more talent and player dedication and support is at an all time high.
There is nothing wrong with that. I don't understand the need to get offended everytime someone mentions the word finance in Gaelic games.
It's not a criticism of your team it's just pointing out that you have a much better chance of breeding a competitive 30 man squad of prime players.
At the end of the day, it's only 15 on 15 but it's getting to that point that Dublin have an advantage.

That isn't begrudging, nor woe is me, it's just a factual point.

The flying mouse · 07-10-2016 09:41AM

PressRun wrote: »

And where have I done any self pitying or said that Mayo "deserve" an All-Ireland? Just because I think that it's pretty tiresome to see the same names cropping up again and again to engage in some triumphalism or sneery "I told you so" nonsense doesn't mean I believe in self pity.

Wasn't actually talking about you PressRun nor Everyone in this thread, There are some very valid and good points made here.But Its also pretty tiresome to see everytime Dublins wins the same auld nonsence being spouted out...population,money,profesionalism,ref,homeground,media,supporters who wont travel, etc etc etc.

Ah sure I leave it there and good luck next year,as you just never know.

TCDStudent1 · 07-10-2016 09:52AM

kilns wrote: »

The point is being missed it is how Dublin is structured. Look at their coaching set up, whatever money Dublin gets the vast vast majority goes into coaching in nearly every school and club in the county, it doesnt all go to prepare a professional team to destroy all the other poor counties. Also Dublin is one of the least political county boards in Ireland allowing them to put these things in place without petty squables that can hinder other counties.

Look at Cork for example, how much money is being wasted on the currenty vanity project down there and the state they are in. Alot of others could learn alot from how Dublin is run both on and off the pitch

God, I am not so sure about that. I am always hearing complaints about the Dublin county board. For example, that they treat their hurlers a lot worse than their footballers.

Godge · 07-10-2016 09:56AM

The Talking Bread wrote: »

But it's essentially what I said. If money is invested in the development of any sports at grassroot up to senior level it will breed success. Without going too deeply into sports development and talent nurturing, finances are a big factor in building foundations. It's a simple premise. Hence why I find it bizarre people don't get it. It's also part of all sport. And I don't begrudge the development of football. You can't point out any advantage Dublin may have as a county w/o some taking offence as if it's some personal attack on their players. It's simple, Dublin are nurturing gaelic games and the game is thriving, clubs are well funded, participation is huge, breeding more competition and more talent and player dedication and support is at an all time high.
There is nothing wrong with that. I don't understand the need to get offended everytime someone mentions the word finance in Gaelic games.
It's not a criticism of your team it's just pointing out that you have a much better chance of breeding a competitive 30 man squad of prime players.
At the end of the day, it's only 15 on 15 but it's getting to that point that Dublin have an advantage.

That isn't begrudging, nor woe is me, it's just a factual point.

It is not just the amount of money, it is the way it is spent.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/brogan-im-going-again-and-ill-take-that-jersey-back-35111177.html

Today's Independent has an interview with Brogan. He says a few things about the money, but this is possibly the one that other counties should look at:

"Money, what does it give you? We haven't been away at all for a training camp at all, we go down the country.

"Every other team has gone to Spain and Portugal and all this stuff."

Where did Mayo go this year? Was that money well spent? Or should it like Dublin be "at grassroots level it's about participation, teaching these kids and getting them to evolve"

Barlett · 07-10-2016 10:54AM

Godge wrote: »

It is not just the amount of money, it is the way it is spent.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/brogan-im-going-again-and-ill-take-that-jersey-back-35111177.html

Today's Independent has an interview with Brogan. He says a few things about the money, but this is possibly the one that other counties should look at:

"Money, what does it give you? We haven't been away at all for a training camp at all, we go down the country.

"Every other team has gone to Spain and Portugal and all this stuff."

Where did Mayo go this year? Was that money well spent? Or should it like Dublin be "at grassroots level it's about participation, teaching these kids and getting them to evolve"

FYI Mayo went to Limerick

The Talking Bread · 07-10-2016 11:00AM

I am not talking about holidays!! I am not saying the Dublin County Board are incentivicing their players to go out and showcase their talents with promises of money.
What I am saying is that Dublin have the money and the means to expend on ventures throughout the club and even school structures which other counties don't have.
Brogan is talkin about a completely different accusation regarding player funding at senior county level. By that level players are near their best anyway so no amount of money will get them better on an individual player level.
But the County Board has funds to ensure they are at their peak, training facilities twice the level of standard than the Mayo's and the Kerry and we won't even mention the second and third tier counties.
I know the Kildare County Secretary. He has just taken over and spends more time going to matches, training at Hawkfield than with his family and work! Every night nearly!
He will get paid petrol money in December, before that, zilch. Tickets to any game but it's on a much lower standard of professionalism than the Dublin County Board who can hire the best of people to look after stuff like financial investment in clubs, player welfare, grants.
Players have special dinners dropped to their workplace in Dublin! I mean, seriously, it's stuff like this that will bring out the best in a team.

Kildare County Board hasn't a fraction of the finances Dublin has to go giving clubs grants, schooling developments etc etc

You say it's how the finances are being spent. Jimmy Hyland, one of the brightest talents in Kildare GAA just done his cruciate. An All Ireland semi finalist this year. If he wasn't covered by private insurance he would be screwed. Club's wouldn't have the finances to get him the top medical treatment, physio etc.

Their can't be a coincidence with how Dublin have dominated senior level the past decade. Plenty of good underage players in the Kildare and Westmeaths in that period but they just don't step up that extra level past U 21 that Dublin do.

statto25 · 07-10-2016 11:09AM

Barlett wrote: »

FYI Mayo went to Limerick

They also had a training camp in London after the game over there

Barlett · 07-10-2016 11:14AM

statto25 wrote: »

They also had a training camp in London after the game over there

They did, but no different from having a training camp in Ireland

Fr Tod Umptious · 07-10-2016 11:52AM

Stoner wrote: »

It's a Mayo GAA thread, hurling is fair game here. I've seen Keith Higgins hurling achievements mentioned more than once.

Nicky Rackard Cup Champions no less

16 MO NICK.

Mayo GAA Discussion Part 2

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