The Bible

kneemos · 06-10-2016 02:01AM

Steve wrote: »

If you are accused of / witness to a crime and have to give evidence, the law of this land demands that you swear on the catholic sky fairy. If you do not believe in that sky fairy, you can choose a different one but you must have a fairy in order to be in court.

Certainly don't,you can just affirm you will tell the truth.

The_Valeyard · 06-10-2016 02:06AM

Steve wrote: »

If you are accused of / witness to a crime and have to give evidence, the law of this land demands that you swear on the catholic sky fairy. If you do not believe in that sky fairy, you can choose a different one but you must have a fairy in order to be in court.

You know, when you try to be smart and funny by using terms like 'Sky Fairy' it really shoots down any chance of debate and talk about the topic.

darkpagandeath · 06-10-2016 02:11AM

Who was the woman with 9 heads ?

getzls · 06-10-2016 02:26AM

Still better than the Koran.
Jesus said let the children come onto me to be blessed not to be raped.

RustyNut · 06-10-2016 03:07AM

I taught god liked little children to suffer.

Grayson · 06-10-2016 03:25AM

getzls wrote: »

Still better than the Koran.
Jesus said let the children come onto me to be blessed not to be raped.

Had to bang that drum didn't you. I bet when you're in the pub and a coworker asks what you want to drink you say "You know they don't allow drink in islam and they are going to take us over so enjoy it whilst you can" and your coworkers look into their drink silently avoiding eye contact.

chillin117 · 06-10-2016 03:26AM

Walking on water then turning it into gargle but not before removing 2 fishes ?
It's the biggest lie/hoax ever committed or ever likely to be matched again and we bought it ?

Grayson · 06-10-2016 03:28AM

RustyNut wrote: »

I taught god liked little children to suffer.

He does. There's one point where god orders someone to commit genocide so the guy kills the men and sells the women and children into slavery. God gets angry qand says "I told you to kill them all" So the bloke has to go and kill the women and children.

There's another bit where a group of kids tease a prophet calling him Baldy. So the prophet prays and God sends a load of bears to maim and kill the kids. That'll teach them to take the piss of the folicly challenged.

gctest50 · 06-10-2016 03:42AM

The_Valeyard wrote: »

You know, when you try to be smart and funny by using terms like 'Sky Fairy' it really shoots down any chance of debate and talk about the topic.

Some prefer 'Sexist, racist, murderous c*nt'

i spose you can see why :

Grayson wrote: »

He does. There's one point where god orders someone to commit genocide so the guy kills the men and sells the women and children into slavery. God gets angry qand says "I told you to kill them all" So the bloke has to go and kill the women and children.

There's another bit where a group of kids tease a prophet calling him Baldy. So the prophet prays and God sends a load of bears to maim and kill the kids. That'll teach them to take the piss of the folicly challenged.

Pawwed Rig · 06-10-2016 04:19AM

There are some good stories with a basis in history however the rest varies between tedious to the bizaare. The church doesn't really encourage reading it as their literature (catechism) is deemed more appropriate (and cuts out the strangeness such as talking donkeys and the joy of smashing babies against rocks).
It would be very inconsistant with the message it is giving.

aaronjumper · 06-10-2016 06:36AM

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly wrote: »

Is the Bible classified as factual work?

Also, is it worth a read?

It is by some yes.

Couldn't tell you, I've only read the parts I was forced to in school.
By the time I developed an interest in reading recreationally I'd lost my faith so I never started it.

Everything I know about it has been told to me by others or gleamed from the masses I was made attend/television/films etc.

Samaris · 06-10-2016 08:05AM

There's some great stories in it. I do tend to approach it much as I read the old Greek/Norse/Irish/whatever legends, it's a story of its time, meant to impart some sort of message. I keep meaning to give bits of it another shot, especially the Old Testament. Wouldn't say I've read it from cover to cover, Kings, Numbers and other lists of begatting gets boring after a very short while, and I never had much time for the acid-trip that is Revelations.

It's interesting to see how mores have changed in storytelling too. We tend to attach to some characters and feel either schadenfruede when bad guys get their come-uppances or happy for a good guy when things work out. There's a lot of stories in the OT where one ends up feeling sorry for someone who didn't really deserve what happened to them (always felt bad for Leah - the older sister of Rachel who ..er..some guy wanted to marry, and worked seven years for, only for the father to renege on the deal and hand over Leah rather than Rachel, so he worked longer to get Rachel too. Leah was the permanent ugly duckling in that story and despite bearing him a raft of sons, never got to swan.)

If I remember it rightly, her raft of sons were the elder sons in the Joseph and Benjamin tale.

Sure, it's misogynistic, genocidal, bigoted, quite alarming at times, and the God of the OT is a bit of an asshole, but I can enjoy them as stories and as an interesting view of how people thought at the time.

By the way people, this is AH, and no-one really expects a deeply respectful and whatsit conversation, but if we could all steer off the "Jesus fanboys" and "sky fairy" comments (and on the other side, too much giving out), the discussion would be generally a lot more enjoyable. There's Christianity and Atheist & Agnostics forums if people want to talk srs bsns.

Pherekydes · 06-10-2016 08:53AM

Some bizarre stuff in it all right, and not all in the OT. Consider Matthew 9:9.

As Jesus went on from there, he saw a man named Matthew sitting at the tax collector’s booth. “Follow me,” he told him, and Matthew got up and followed him.

So who wrote Matthew chapters 1-8?

How did he know of the events of Matthew 2:13, for instance?

13 When they had gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream. “Get up,” he said, “take the child and his mother and escape to Egypt. Stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to search for the child to kill him.”

Why did the angel only warn Joseph? Not warning the others led to the slaughter of the innocents, a crime against humanity, if ever there was one.

Of course, Jesus himself is reputed to have said (John 14:6):

6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Which instantly condemned millions who had lived prior to Jesus to hell for all eternity.

He's also reputed to have said "I'll be (right) back".

Billions have died in the meantime.

lazybones32 · 06-10-2016 09:38AM

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly wrote: »

Is the Bible classified as factual work?

Also, is it worth a read?

Yes, it is well worth a read for many reasons. I quite like the wisdom books - some good advice in there.
The New Testament is probably the most important 'book' I've ever read and asked questions that made me think in a new way.
Yes, well worth a read.

HensVassal · 06-10-2016 10:26AM

me_right_one wrote: »

Read it and see for yourself. Then come back on here and make a judgement.

Whoa....reading it 1000 times still won't convince anyone that you can get pregnant without sexual intercourse or IVF treatment. Water cannot be turned into alcohol. H2O cannot morph into an organic chemical compound. You can't bring a dead man back to life unless you have a defribillator or advanced CPR techniques but I suspect that if Lazarus was dead long enough to be braindead so if Jesus kickstarted his heart, the boy would still have been a cabbage. As for rubbing mud on a blind man's eyelids and then he is cured of his disability....all I can say is if and when you develop cataracts or glaucoma will you opt for a medical procedure or for some shaman to smear a mixture of bog water and wattle all over your face?

And I don't care how light you are, you will always break the surface tension of water so forget about walking on it.

valoren · 06-10-2016 10:33AM

Better off reading a compilation of Aesop's fables.

HensVassal · 06-10-2016 10:37AM

kneemos wrote: »

Parables dude. Atheists are embarrassingly simplistic,either deliberately or for real.

I don't think the Great Flood or the story of the garden of Eden were parables, dude. And besides if all this myth is just "parables" then why is MRM stating that it's factual?

RiderOnTheStorm · 06-10-2016 10:39AM

The bible will always have its staunch supporters & distractors. I think it's a great book, and it makes a bold statement that you should not believe what anyone else says about it (pro or con) but read it for yourself and make up your own mind.

kneemos · 06-10-2016 10:55AM

HensVassal wrote: »

I don't think the Great Flood or the story of the garden of Eden were parables, dude. And besides if all this myth is just "parables" then why is MRM stating that it's factual?

Both symbolic stories I'd have thought.
Don't know what MRM is but presumably the message is true rather than the stories

byronbay2 · 06-10-2016 11:05AM

HensVassal wrote: »

Whoa....reading it 1000 times still won't convince anyone that you can get pregnant without sexual intercourse or IVF treatment. Water cannot be turned into alcohol. H2O cannot morph into an organic chemical compound. You can't bring a dead man back to life unless you have a defribillator or advanced CPR techniques but I suspect that if Lazarus was dead long enough to be braindead so if Jesus kickstarted his heart, the boy would still have been a cabbage. As for rubbing mud on a blind man's eyelids and then he is cured of his disability....all I can say is if and when you develop cataracts or glaucoma will you opt for a medical procedure or for some shaman to smear a mixture of bog water and wattle all over your face?

And I don't care how light you are, you will always break the surface tension of water so forget about walking on it.

That's why these episodes are called "miracles" and you need what they call "faith" to believe them!

HensVassal · 06-10-2016 11:06AM

kneemos wrote: »

Both symbolic stories I'd have thought.
Don't know what MRM is but presumably the message is true rather than the stories

The poster Me Right One......my mistake should have been MRO.

HensVassal · 06-10-2016 11:12AM

byronbay2 wrote: »

That's why these episodes are called "miracles" and you need what they call "faith" to believe them!

"Faith" is a belief in something that is possible, e.g. "I have faith that Bill will get back with the pizza and beer before the match starts. The boy knows all the shortcuts".

Insanity is a belief in something that is impossible.

keano_afc · 06-10-2016 11:14AM

Yes and yes.

Worth reading to see why its the most divisive book in the world and banned in over 30 countries (which is pretty awesome really when its supposedly a "book of fairy tales").

I would suggest starting with the gospels (Matthew thru to John in the New Testament) and if you're reading for the first time a more easy to read version might be an idea (New King James, ESV).

If you are genuinely interested I can send you a bible, just drop me a pm.

Atoms for Peace · 06-10-2016 11:16AM

Its all in the book of revelations folks, the end times are at hand:

"17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication"

Yes it seems that kim kardasian is the whore of Babylon.:)

Samaris · 06-10-2016 12:00PM

Pherekydes wrote: »

Of course, Jesus himself is reputed to have said (John 14:6):

6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Which instantly condemned millions who had lived prior to Jesus to hell for all eternity.

As a note on that, I think that has been clarified a few times (that was one that bugged me as a kid too), that one has to make a concious decision to follow or not follow to reach God. It doesn't affect those that died before Jesus' time, or those who never heard his words.

I'm pretty sure it was decided at one of the earliest councils, probably not Nicaea, maybe Constantinople or one of those though.

kneemos wrote: »

Both symbolic stories I'd have thought.
Don't know what MRM is but presumably the message is true rather than the stories

Pretty much every Middle Eastern country claims that they totally had the Garden of Eden, but given the spiritualness of that whole story, I rather doubt it was ever a real place. The Flood however, there is evidence for. It crops up in a number of mythologies - actually, google Flood Myth and you'll get a raft of information on it. I believe there is actually physical evidence for a wide-scale inundation of land in that entire region, which, given the catastrophic effects on farmland and towns, likely would live in folk memory and be incorporated into religions. Much like the Ten Plagues of Egypt; you can take the deity influence or not as you want, but even the rivers of blood and the death of the first-born are plausible.

The rivers of blood could have been water affected by red algae, which still happens every so often. The death of the first-born is interesting, and has been attributed (of course, this is only guesswork) to a natural gas leak, although I can't recall off the top of my head if it was CO or not. The interesting thing about it is that there was a hierarchical structure to where people slept, and the much-valued first born boys of the family slept on the ground floor. The slave children, primarily Jewish, would sleep at the top of the house. Given the gas would have been rising from the -ground-, it would have affected those Egyptian boys, but would have dissipated by the time it reached the Hebrew children.

Can take all of this with a grain of salt, of course, or even an entire pillar, but it has certainly been theorized as possible, although with the facts diluted over time by folk memory.

Grayson · 06-10-2016 08:25PM

Samaris wrote: »

As a note on that, I think that has been clarified a few times (that was one that bugged me as a kid too), that one has to make a concious decision to follow or not follow to reach God. It doesn't affect those that died before Jesus' time, or those who never heard his words.

I'm pretty sure it was decided at one of the earliest councils, probably not Nicaea, maybe Constantinople or one of those though.

It was decided that there was a new covenant between God and humans. People before Jesus had the one in the old testament and their rules people after had the new one with Jesus. It was mainly brought in to discern the new church from the Jews. Up till that point, for the first hundred years or so, Christians were a Jewish sect. By the time the catholic church was coming into it's own it needed to shed the Judaic law and become it's own separate entity.

Samaris wrote: »

Pretty much every Middle Eastern country claims that they totally had the Garden of Eden, but given the spiritualness of that whole story, I rather doubt it was ever a real place. The Flood however, there is evidence for. It crops up in a number of mythologies - actually, google Flood Myth and you'll get a raft of information on it. I believe there is actually physical evidence for a wide-scale inundation of land in that entire region, which, given the catastrophic effects on farmland and towns, likely would live in folk memory and be incorporated into religions. Much like the Ten Plagues of Egypt; you can take the deity influence or not as you want, but even the rivers of blood and the death of the first-born are plausible.

The rivers of blood could have been water affected by red algae, which still happens every so often. The death of the first-born is interesting, and has been attributed (of course, this is only guesswork) to a natural gas leak, although I can't recall off the top of my head if it was CO or not. The interesting thing about it is that there was a hierarchical structure to where people slept, and the much-valued first born boys of the family slept on the ground floor. The slave children, primarily Jewish, would sleep at the top of the house. Given the gas would have been rising from the -ground-, it would have affected those Egyptian boys, but would have dissipated by the time it reached the Hebrew children.

Can take all of this with a grain of salt, of course, or even an entire pillar, but it has certainly been theorized as possible, although with the facts diluted over time by folk memory.

The flood myth isn't just isolated to the middle east. Lots of societies have stories. It's not unusual to fear natural disasters and have them co-opted into mythology.
Although, as you pointed out, there is evidence of wide spread flooding between the Tigris and Euphrates. The story permeated Mesopotamian mythology. The Epic of Gilgamesh predates the biblical flood myth by quite a while and it's almost certain that the flood myth is drawn from it.

Jesus. · 06-10-2016 09:16PM

me_right_one wrote: »

Jesus was a complete revolutionary. If he was around today, he would be disliked / liked the way Paul Murphy is.

Fukk me. Paul Murphy! I must tone it back a bit

jester77 · 06-10-2016 09:26PM

Fact or fiction aside, it's amazing the cult following it has.

06-10-2016 09:40PM

So far, the best posts on this thread are from those who have actually read it and are providing an interesting take on it, rather than those who are saying "nonsense, Dawkins, Flying Spaghetti Monster, crap..." and ridiculing it.

Grayson · 06-10-2016 09:53PM

Deleted User wrote: »

So far, the best posts on this thread are from those who have actually read it and are providing an interesting take on it, rather than those who are saying "nonsense, Dawkins, Flying Spaghetti Monster, crap..." and ridiculing it.

I didn't notice that but I probably missed it and can't be bothered reading back.

I don't know if there's much moral knowledge in the bible. If you include the old testament then there's far more nastiness in it.

I do think there is a lot to be gained from it as an understanding of human nature. It's a big part of our history. Probably the most recognisable book in western culture (although harry potter and fifty shades are giving it a run). I'd recommend reading it. I'd say the same for the holy books of most major religions.

The Bible

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