Dublin Marathon 2016 - Mentored Novices Thread

Wubble Wubble · 05-10-2016 09:28AM

nop98 wrote: »

It's marked in miles. For those of us preferring the modern kilometers, running a race in miles can be somewhat daunting. Imagine shuffling through the crowds in the inner-city for what feels like quite a while, and then you see a big sign with...

1

... and then you realize you have to repeat what you just done, 26 times. :eek:

Kilometer signs just happen to come more often. Even the great TFB says that running 42(.2) kilometers is easier than 26(.2) miles - so it must be true.

Joking aside - I also wanted to mention that there are several timing mats throughout the course. If memory serves, 10km, HM, 30km and, obviously, the finish - you can have everyone you know follow you on the live tracker as these splits are uploaded instantly.

FYI...I definitely saw 25k marked on the side of the road as I was approaching KCR on Saturday morning. Presumably a(nother) timing mat there?

nop98 · 05-10-2016 09:39AM

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

FYI...I definitely saw 25k marked on the side of the road as I was approaching KCR on Saturday morning. Presumably a(nother) timing mat there?

Looking at the to-be tracker, there seem to be the three timing points there were last year. As some folks have mentioned, there are markers every 5k along the course (even tho I can't remember that at all), but I doubt these are timing points.

http://track.rtrt.me/e/TDL-DUBLINM-2016#/map

nop98 · 05-10-2016 10:19AM

kittyclaws wrote: »

Here's a great finishing time predictor http://www.runnersworld.com/tools/race-time-predictor

kittyclaws wrote: »

Google Runners World Marathon Time Predictor, it's a new calculator they only launched this week. Supposedly more accurate than McMillan.

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

McMillan: 3:49:09
Runner's World: 4:01:21

McMillan is way better. :pac:

kin9pin wrote: »

Runners world 4:01:45 for me. I'll just have to trust that I can go 1:46 quicker !

paddydriver wrote: »

McMillan gave me 3:45 and Runners World was 3:57..:cool: Think Runners World is probably better one to think about for me as all my pace calculations etc have me thinking about that area but the bit that worries me is that there is little room for error.

tailgunner wrote: »

McMillan and Runners World were both a little off for me.

The old "double your half marathon time and add twenty minutes" was pretty much spot on.

paddydriver wrote: »

I like that calculation.. Ironically enough just slightly below what the Runners World gave me. No room for error so really need to count on a perfect day out with no (major) unforseen's..

kin9pin wrote: »

That gives me 4:00:36! Looks like it's an 8:30 final mile

Hey - how did we get to discussing target times and final-mile paces

:eek:

I realize it's all in jest for now - and I promise we'll have a proper conversation about target-times and race-day plans once the tapering starts for real. The focus for now is to get through the current week and set of very long runs - especially for the HHN1 folks (20M), to nurse every cold and niggle back to complete fitness.

However, you can do a little homework - but in your heads for now

Most of you have already heard of this, or used this in races (or even other sports), but a very helpful tool in goal-setting is to define multiple goals for the same event - let's call them A, B, and C goals.

Your A goal would be what you would achieve when the day went absolutely perfect. It's important to set it correctly - and the best way to describe it is "challenging but realistic". For example, twice your half-marathon PB is not realistic

. If your training has gone well, twice your HM PB + 20 minutes might be fine.

Your B and C goals are less challenging, but still phenomenal achievements on the day. It's important to have these goals, too. Don't go out and say, "it's sub-4 or I have failed". For many novices, the C goal would be to finish at all - and that's perfectly fine. :cool:

The reason to think about these different goals beforehand is to mentally prepare yourself for the (not completely unrealistic) scenario that things might not all go to plan on the day. You can simply fall-back at targeting your B- or C-goals rather than having to work this out during the race itself.

So, if you want do some day-dreaming, use calculators, read last year's race reports, etc, go for it - and start thinking in terms of the three different goals for the day. Next week or the week after, we'll start sharing them.

Two things are important.
> It's important to be flexible at these goals and adapt them to the circumstances of the day. Stubbornly pursuing an ultra-challenging goal when, for example, the weather is challenging (windy, or hot), will not end pretty.
> For your first marathon, and I can't stress this enough, it's important to not get too attached to the outcome. Think about it. It can't be that if you come in 10 seconds over your A-goal, that you feel you have failed. You haven't. You have just ran your very first marathon, and that is AMAZING. This will be such a memorable day that the time-outcome should not leave a sense of disappointment. None of us will run records, go to Olympics, or make our living from running. You've spend months and months preparing for this, go around and give it your best shot - but above all, enjoy it - it is epic - and don't ruin it by being too hard on yourself and your achievement.

Wubble Wubble · 05-10-2016 10:38AM

nop98 wrote: »

The reason to think about these different goals beforehand is to mentally prepare yourself for the (not completely unrealistic) scenario that things might not all go to plan on the day. You can simply fall-back at targeting your B- or C-goals rather than having to work this out during the race itself.

So, if you want do some day-dreaming, use calculators, read last year's race reports, etc, go for it - and start thinking in terms of the three different goals for the day. Next week or the week after, we'll start sharing them.

Two things are important.
> It's important to be flexible at these goals and adapt them to the circumstances of the day. Stubbornly pursuing an ultra-challenging goal when, for example, the weather is challenging (windy, or hot), will not end pretty.
> For your first marathon, and I can't stress this enough, it's important to not get too attached to the outcome. Think about it. It can't be that if you come in 10 seconds over your A-goal, that you feel you have failed. You haven't. You have just ran your very first marathon, and that is AMAZING. This will be such a memorable day that the time-outcome should not leave a sense of disappointment. None of us will run records, go to Olympics, or make our living from running. You've spend months and months preparing for this, go around and give it your best shot - but above all, enjoy it - it is epic - and don't ruin it by being too hard on yourself and your achievement.

Edited from above, added emphasis mine.

By chance, at work yesterday I bumped into a girl who ran DCM in 2014. I mentioned spectating at Castleknock College (7.25 miles approx.) and even at that stage noticing how many people were gasping for air and/or in other states of distress. Still 19 miles to go....if you're in that kind of trouble now, there's no way you'll be able to keep it going for another 19....time to revise the targets and slow down? Even for a few minutes, until (hopefully) everything resets properly.

paddydriver · 05-10-2016 11:13AM

So are any novices signing up to the Sub2Hr project.. Note that's a 2 and not a 4!

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/fitness/can-anyone-run-a-sub-2-hour-marathon-and-why-1.2817192

We are talking about the fine lines of maybe a 3:55 and a 4:00 marathon.. That 5 mins is a gulf at any stage of the timing scales it seems.

The Muppet · 05-10-2016 11:14AM

nop98 wrote: »

For many novices, the C goal would be to finish at all - and that's perfectly fine. :cool:

That could well be the A goal for some of us .

kin9pin · 05-10-2016 11:17AM

nop98 wrote: »

Looking at the to-be tracker, there seem to be the three timing points there were last year. As some folks have mentioned, there are markers every 5k along the course (even tho I can't remember that at all), but I doubt these are timing points.

http://track.rtrt.me/e/TDL-DUBLINM-2016#/map

Has anyone used Garmin LiveTrack in a race? Does it work? I'm thinking of taking my phone with me, I have a great pocket at the back of my shorts, and using it so my family/friends can track my progress.
Would have been nice to see timing mats every 5k.

The Muppet · 05-10-2016 11:20AM

kin9pin wrote: »

Has anyone used Garmin LiveTrack in a race? Does it work? I'm thinking of taking my phone with me, I have a great pocket at the back of my shorts, and using it so my family/friends can track my progress.
Would have been nice to see timing mats every 5k.

I've used it on Training Runs and it works fine, my facebook friends love it, not.:D

I did try to turn it on at that start of the DCHM so my missus could see I was still alive and moving but the signal in the park was crap so I didn't bother. I will probably use it on the day but expect it to be hit and miss . I'm with three and have unlimited data but its crap lately.

The Muppet · 05-10-2016 11:25AM

paddydriver wrote: »

So are any novices signing up to the Sub2Hr project.. Note that's a 2 and not a 4!

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/fitness/can-anyone-run-a-sub-2-hour-marathon-and-why-1.2817192

I might if they alter it slightly to the Sub2Hr Half project otherwise I think I'll give it a miss.:)

scotindublin · 05-10-2016 11:25AM

As Mrs scotindublin is always saying to me " I don't think you have a chance of winning the marathon so just enjoy the day!!"

TFBubendorfer · 05-10-2016 11:57AM

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

FYI...I definitely saw 25k marked on the side of the road as I was approaching KCR on Saturday morning. Presumably a(nother) timing mat there?

DCM always had mile markers and addition markers every 5k. Nothing to do with timing mats

Wubble Wubble · 05-10-2016 12:30PM

Thanks TFB, apologies for the (DCM) rookie error!

kin9pin · 05-10-2016 12:56PM

The Muppet wrote: »

I've used it on Training Runs and it works fine, my facebook friends love it, not.:D

I did try to turn it on at that start of the DCHM so my missus could see I was still alive and moving but the signal in the park was crap so I didn't bother. I will probably use it on the day but expect it to be hit and miss . I'm with three and have unlimited data but its crap lately.

Does it just provide one link on Facebook at the start or does it automatically post splits? Not sure my friends would appreciated being bombarded too much

05-10-2016 01:21PM

Almost broke myself running 23km yesterday. Worrying that I didn't prepare any differently than usual.

aquinn · 05-10-2016 02:00PM

kin9pin wrote: »

Does it just provide one link on Facebook at the start or does it automatically post splits? Not sure my friends would appreciated being bombarded too much

As it's an extra weight and thing to carry is it worth it? Part of LSR gear etc?

Also does it not work off Bluetooth so your phone may be dead and you could get lost finding the pub and location of fellow Graduates. Prioritise here, missing out on drinks or posting splits?

kin9pin · 05-10-2016 02:13PM

aquinn wrote: »

As it's an extra weight and thing to carry is it worth it? Part of LSR gear etc?

Also does it not work off Bluetooth so your phone may be dead and you could get lost finding the pub and location of fellow Graduates. Prioritise here, missing out on drinks or posting splits?

But I can take selfies on the way! And post them on Facebook immediately! And get blocked by everyone on Facebook!

aquinn · 05-10-2016 02:26PM

kin9pin wrote: »

But I can take selfies on the way! And post them on Facebook immediately! And get blocked by everyone on Facebook!

Remove yourself immediately.

THERE WILL BE NO SELFIES TAKEN!

Everyone will have to listen to you for months after anyway after racing DCM so you need to keep friends for after the event, and not be unfriended during.

Wubble Wubble · 05-10-2016 02:27PM

paddydriver wrote: »

So are any novices signing up to the Sub2Hr Sub2HM project.. Note that's a 2 and not a 4!

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/fitness/can-anyone-run-a-sub-2-hour-marathon-and-why-1.2817192

We are talking about the fine lines of maybe a 3:55 and a 4:00 marathon.. That 5 mins is a gulf at any stage of the timing scales it seems.

FYP....I read it as HM the first time

and then I read it again :eek: worlds apart from anything we're trying to do!

crogerso · 05-10-2016 04:28PM

BuddhistMonk I am in the same boat as you with the foot pain. Went out for my 5 miles last night and around mile 3 I could feel the pain in my arch of my foot and my lower calf. Around mile 4 I got a sharp pain in my heel that lasted about 3 minutes and then went away. Pain in my arch however is lingering so I am taking a rest tonight with ice and stretching. From my visit with the physio at the weekend I am confident that with stretching, rest and ice I can get back on the road tomorrow but will see how it feels. Certainly not going to risk aggrevating it this evening as much as I'd love to get the paced run in.
Hope yours feels better soon.
(Also I have attempted to reply with quote but can't seem to work it....)

The Black Oil · 05-10-2016 05:19PM

Extrasupervery wrote: »

Felt good though, I think apart from getting miles in the legs it quietens my head to just get out and run and not over-analyse times and days left and the rest of it. In saying that I'm very intimidated by this next LSR. I'll co-ordinate efforts with A Neurotic for those who want to meet up, does the Hole in the Wall car park/Park entrance suit for a meet up point next Saturday morning?

Shall we say 9am? I'm down for 20m, say 10:45-11:15 min/mi would suit me. Are we going to do some of the course or a few laps of the park?

Wubble Wubble · 05-10-2016 06:25PM

Mon 3/10 - Rest

Tue 4/10 - 5 miles @9:36 p/m average

To say the least, I'm not a fan of lunchtime running. However, being in college after work means this will be a necessary evil every Tuesday for the duration.

The plan was to keep it at an easy pace from work, up Chesterfield Avenue to the Phoenix and back. Even on a good day, it's nearly impossible to pick up any kind of momentum anyway, with so many pedestrian crossings, and usually vast amounts of human traffic, along the paths between PP and work. Still and all, away I went, trying to keep a steady enough pace up the steepest part of Chesterfield, which occurs as you enter from Parkgate Street. Lots of runners about, but I'd plenty of room to do my thing, and got to the roundabout feeling reasonably comfortable. Unusually however, there was a strong wind in my face as I turned back down Chesterfield towards the city centre. It meant that any gains from running downhill were wiped out, and I had to work a bit harder than expected.

Overall time not too bad, although I confess it did feel harder than 9:36. Maybe having to constantly dodge around people and wait for safe spots to cross stresses me out more than I imagine!

Wed 5/10 - PMP Session

According to a link someone here put up, McMillan reckons I can run the marathon in 3:25 (based on my 1:37 DCHM effort). Hmmmm. Anyway, this evening I headed to Porterstown to try the 1/5/1 as per the Boards plan.

Warmup mile (8:42) set me up for the start of five PMP laps. Well, the first of these was a superfast 7:44. Steady on! Which I did, somewhat, on Lap 2 (7:55). With the old ITB stinging again, the remaining three were a bit closer to what I'll end up going with pace wise (8:05, 8:00, 8:03) with extra added consistency. Overall, not great to put it mildly, and too much of a variance in the times for my liking. Cooldown lap (9:24) and a mile or so round trip from the house brought the mileage to 8 for tonight. Seems like McMillan needs to revise his calculator - I'd have to average sub-8 to reach that target!

The Muppet · 05-10-2016 07:04PM

Got my wu + 5 pmp +1 cd in this afternoon. pmp miles , 10:01, 9:57 : 9:54 : 9:42 and 9:29 , wu and cd 10.45 pace . I wasn't in the mood for it today I felt quite tired, Pace was too fast , hr maxed at 136 so that was good. Cant say it was enjoyable just one of those runs where you dig in and get it done, I started to get into it for the last pmp mile .

The Muppet · 05-10-2016 07:06PM

kin9pin wrote: »

Does it just provide one link on Facebook at the start or does it automatically post splits? Not sure my friends would appreciated being bombarded too much

Just the one post on your timeline which tracks your run. Its quite cool. Id imagine with 19000 participants if only a small % use it the network may suffer. I'll definitley have my phone with me and give it ago. Not an iphone so battery life should be grand, my hrm is bluetooth and its never died on a run.

All or nothing · 05-10-2016 08:22PM

budhistmonk wrote: »

I think I am am having some success with managing my plantar fasciitis which was beginning to worry me. I was in Amphibian King in Bray yesterday to buy some gels and mentioned it to Damian in there and he directed me to a video on this problem he posted some weeks back. Doing this twice a day and icing afterwards has helped me hugely already. Also he suggested to wear an old pair of properly fitted running shoes around the house (well as much as I can) for a few day as these probably give the best arch support for my feet of all the shoes i have. I think I will take today off running to give it one more day and get back to it tomorrow. If all goes well tomorrow I will try the 20m lsr on Sat but will build in some options for quitting the run if the heel pain returns. So basically I'll be doing laps My PT is back from his vacation next week so will book in with him for some expert advice.

Here is the link for what it is worth to anyone. Word of caution - be prepared for some pain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hauyuX-uCq8

Hi Budhistmonk,
I had my second visit to the physio yesterday regarding my plantar fasciitis. She did a lot of work on both my feet. She thinks the runners could be part of the problem but it's too late now to change them. As I wear orthotics she suggested I try run without them as the runners plus the orthotics are offering too much support. I did the 7 mile run tonight, not too much pain. I've been doing stretches 2 or 3 times a day. Seems to be doing the trick. Thanks for the link to that video I might give the stretches in it a go. Good luck with your run tomorrow.

kin9pin · 05-10-2016 08:35PM

The Muppet wrote: »

Just the one post on your timeline which tracks your run. Its quite cool. Id imagine with 19000 participants if only a small % use it the network may suffer. I'll definitley have my phone with me and give it ago. Not an iphone so battery life should be grand, my hrm is bluetooth and its never died on a run.

Thanks TM, I think I'll try it out this weekend. I take the phone on long runs anyway so I know battery (and weight

) won't be a problem.

phil1nj · 05-10-2016 08:35PM

Long time lurker, first time poster (well this year anyway). Have hit a problem since the mileage has starated to increase. My feet are giving me awful problems with both blisters and burning of the soles. Have put a lot of miles in over the past few months with no problems but the past two weeks have seen a sharp increase in foot discomfort. Have tried changing socks and using powder to no avail. I'm using two different pairs of trainers and the problem is present with both trainers and with different dri fit type socks. Any suggestions for different things to try? My LSR this week was a struggle due to this and it wasn't something I even considered as being a potential problem. Help!!!

kin9pin · 05-10-2016 08:40PM

phil1nj wrote: »

Long time lurker, first time poster (well this year anyway). Have hit a problem since the mileage has starated to increase. My feet are giving me awful problems with both blisters and burning of the soles. Have put a lot of miles in over the past few months with no problems but the past two weeks have seen a sharp increase in foot discomfort. Have tried changing socks and using powder to no avail. I'm using two different pairs of trainers and the problem is present with both trainers and with different dri fit type socks. Any suggestions for different things to try? My LSR this week was a struggle due to this and it wasn't something I even considered as being a potential problem. Help!!!

Are you using 1000 mile fusion socks? Not cheap, but they have an inner layer to stop blisters. It also adds some nice padding. Maybe try some bodyglide or similar on your feet as well.
How are you tying your laces? Are you using the runners loop to lock your heel in? It should stop your foot moving around inside the shoe. There are videos on that lacing, I'll post a link if I can find it.

All or nothing · 05-10-2016 08:40PM

The Muppet wrote: »

I do a lot of my running around there so I Just created this one for you on the rungo app as a possibility. Its a nice route and you could easily add on a little in the park itself at the end if you wanted. down along the coat there is beautiful flat cycle track and running path right over by the sea inside the little wall.

https://routes.rungoapp.com/route/Pfoo8VjQwa

Heres another possibility if you fancy taking in some of the city.

https://routes.rungoapp.com/route/tlGzVjs4XT

Thanks again TM for going to the bother of creating a route for me. My first experience of running in Dublin was a wet one. I set off at 9:15 Saturday morning. The rain turned into monsoon like conditions around 15 minutes into the run. I did think once of twice whether I should turn back and go back to bed. I had the run go app set with your route but in the end I gave up
on it. It was telling me to turn after I had gone past the junctions. I ended up
Just following the path all the way out to Howth and back for 18 miles in total. I should have stayed in bed for another hour as it turned out to be nice after that.

phil1nj · 05-10-2016 08:50PM

kin9pin wrote: »

Are you using 1000 mile fusion socks? Not cheap, but they have an inner layer to stop blisters. It also adds some nice padding. Maybe try some bodyglide or similar on your feet as well.
How are you tying your laces? Are you using the runners loop to lock your heel in? It should stop your foot moving around inside the shoe. There are videos on that lacing, I'll post a link if I can find it.

Thanks. Haven't done anything different since the start of the year with regard to socks and laces. Will look at picking up a pair of the fusion socks ASAFP

With regard to bodyglide....would vaseline do as a stop gap fix until I source some of that??

The Muppet · 05-10-2016 09:20PM

All or nothing wrote: »

The Muppet wrote: »

I do a lot of my running around there so I Just created this one for you on the rungo app as a possibility. Its a nice route and you could easily add on a little in the park itself at the end if you wanted. down along the coat there is beautiful flat cycle track and running path right over by the sea inside the little wall.

https://routes.rungoapp.com/route/Pfoo8VjQwa

Heres another possibility if you fancy taking in some of the city.

https://routes.rungoapp.com/route/tlGzVjs4XT

Thanks again TM for going to the bother of creating a route for me. My first experience of running in Dublin was a wet one. I set off at 9:15 Saturday morning. The rain turned into monsoon like conditions around 15 minutes into the run. I did think once of twice whether I should turn back and go back to bed. I had the run go app set with your route but in the end I gave up
on it. It was telling me to turn after I had gone past the junctions. I ended up
Just following the path all the way out to Howth and back for 18 miles in total. I should have stayed in bed for another hour as it turned out to be nice after that.

It was a wet morning I ran a variation of the dublin city route myself wss ready to go at 9 30 but I saw the clearing coming so I held off until 10 and it was a nice morning from then on . That's a lovely run out to howth . That stretch along the cycle track is my favourite place to run there's always a nice breeze along there. Glad you enjoyed your run .

Dublin Marathon 2016 - Mentored Novices Thread

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