Dublin Marathon 2016 - Mentored Novices Thread

Maximus Alexander · 04-10-2016 06:19PM

kin9pin wrote: »

Runners world 4:01:45 for me. I'll just have to trust that I can go 1:46 quicker !

Last mile at 5k pace: job done.

joesoap5 · 04-10-2016 06:21PM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Last mile at 5k pace: job done.

After a quick Cortisone injection into your ankles :pac:

nop98 · 04-10-2016 06:28PM

Safrongirl wrote: »

Anyway depending on how I am feeling tomorow it will be my last atempt at 32km - bring on the taper

Hey SFG - your number one priority is to feel better - before attempting any massive long run like 32k/20M. You have plenty of mileage in the legs so it's a matter of getting to the starting line in <4 weeks from now in the best shape you can. Do get out to stretch the legs a little, but it sounds to me that the side-effects of a 3h+ run when not feeling great will far outweigh any perceived benefits.

Did you have a read of the article about the taper linked a few pages ago? Here's the link again. The main thing is that you can only do "too much" from now on, not "too little".

http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/4-steps-to-your-perfect-marathon-taper

So relax, chill, get rid of that cold, tell supportive hubby you need to put the feed up / have a lie-in / go for a sports-massage.

scotindublin · 04-10-2016 06:39PM

Marathon Miles 4-10

Here is my stab at miles 4-10; for me this is a part of the marathon that I am very familiar with as I tend to run in the Phoenix Park a good bit.

Mile 4 kicks off as we run down Lord's Walk at the back of the zoo; hopefully by this point the crowds from the first few miles have thinned out and we are now running along at our MP. From here we make a right turn on to Chesterfield Avenue (the main road throuh the Phoenix Park) and continue up through the Park to the Castleknock Gates; there is a slight drag he whole way up the Avenue and you can pretty much see what is ahead of you (which may or may not be a good thing). As we approach mile 5 we reach the first cheering zone of the day and this is where you also pass one of the water stations....from reading a few reports from last year this also seems to be a popular pit stop for a toilet break (loads of trees anyway!!). Keep an eye out for Michael D aswell as this is the point where you pass his city pad in the park.

From here we continue up the Avenue towards the Castleknock gates;potentially the Avenue could be exposed to the elements on the day so it could be a good spot to tuck in behind a group should it be windy.

The slight drag continues until you reach the set of traffic lights before Castleknock village; from there we have a slight downhill toward Myos Pub where we take a sharp left onto College Road....another cheer zone awaits and from what I am told this is a real hairs on the back of the neck moment as the crowds are supposed to be brilliant here.

From College Road there is a very short slight up hill section (it will be barely noticeable) before we head to a fairly sharp down hill section towards mile 8 and head back into the Park at the Knockmaroon Gates before we head up towards the Upper Glen Road; this is where we hit familiar territory from the 1/2 marathon and FD 10 mile with a nice down hill section through mile 9 and towards the Chapelizod Gates.....could be a nice section to conserve some energy on the down hill part..a word of warning here watch out for the deer as they won't let 19,500 runners get in the way of them crossing the road (see my FD 10!) As you get to the gates there is a water/Lucozade station.

Here we leave the Park for the final time and run along the Chapelizod Road past Donore Harriers towards Chapelizod where we cross the Liffey and take a sharp left onto St Lawrence Road and throuh mile 10. There is a nice hill just past here so keep that in mind.

I watched most of the marathon in Chapelizod last year and there were great crowds so I would expect the same this year.

Hopefully this is of some help!

Craig

bucketybuck · 04-10-2016 06:41PM

nop98 wrote: »

Bucketybuck - the first priority has to be not having any injuries. Let us know what your physio advices. You could scale back the mileage a little this week if needed, or move your long run a little bit further out, e.g. to mid-week next week. However, we don't have too much wriggle room as I wouldn't want to jeopardize the tapering period. What was your longest run so far?

I hope the physio appointment went well.

Longest run so far was 28km 4 weeks ago. Unfortunately the modified HHN1 swaps the planned 29km for the DCHM which is something I was always concerned about, it leaves the HH1 short on very long runs and puts a lot of importance on the one 32km run. Even the 28km I did was only supposed to be 25.8, I think had I done that 29km I think I might be less concerned now.

Regardless of that, the physio went as well as could be expected. As an aside, I went to a new physio last night and am very glad I did, I never realised how poor my last one was. This new guy was far more engaged in checking everything and putting me through my paces to really find any and all issues I was having, it made a big difference. I had been at the old one a few weeks ago for a check up and massage but last night was miles better! Get a good physio folks! Its like your shoes, once you've been to a good one you won't go back to the old style!

Anyway, the injury. Surprisingly, he doesn't think that it will necessarily stop me from running. I had a lot of tight muscles in a lot of places and need to focus on stretching more diligently, but in terms of my groin strain he feels that as long as I manage it, it shouldn't prevent me from continuing on. With all the caveats of course, that I stop if I feel it tightening up and that I take it easy, but easy running won't necessarily do any great harm and that I would be better served focusing on stretching out the causes rather than resting up and waiting for it to heal.

I'm pretty sure what caused this injury was one little thing, I had been feeling so good lately that my pace had increased on my long runs.

Its not that I had intentionally sped up, more that I hadn't stopped myself from doing it naturally, but I was going quicker than I should and it seems I have paid the price. Slow down folks!

So that where I'm at. I have a groin strain but I did my 8k tonight and although my groin was a constant presence, it doesn't seem to be any worse for the run. So I'll continue on with the plan. I may as well bring some knitting with me though, because from now on these runs are going to be so slow I'll need something to keep me awake.

Extrasupervery · 04-10-2016 07:17PM

Thanks for the advice and kind words following my ****ty LSR, you're all very very sound.

I took your advice nop and put it behind me. Didn't quite get 5 miles in as it got very dark very quickly and the park gets weird at night. It now gets dark before 19.00, boo-urns.

Felt good though, I think apart from getting miles in the legs it quietens my head to just get out and run and not over-analyse times and days left and the rest of it. In saying that I'm very intimidated by this next LSR. I'll co-ordinate efforts with A Neurotic for those who want to meet up, does the Hole in the Wall car park/Park entrance suit for a meet up point next Saturday morning?

kin9pin · 04-10-2016 08:03PM

5m easy tonight. I was a bit nervous after feeling stiff on Saturday, but I didn't feel the shin at all. Strange running in the dark again, really have to keep your wits about you on the badly lit paths.

I did try compression socks tonight and I think I'll continue with them as you can certainly feel the extra support. I'll try them on the long run on Saturday to see if they'll work for DCM.
I did have a think about how much the socks cost and how much the whole marathon has cost (so far). Between gels, drink, bars, gear (lots of), runners x2, bodyglide, Epsom salts, physio etc. etc. I've spent a small fortune. All worth it though.

On another note, my wife went shopping today and I found mince pies in the cupboard! I love mince pies, can't resist them.

PauloMN · 04-10-2016 08:24PM

kin9pin wrote: »

Strange running in the dark again, really have to keep your wits about you on the badly lit paths.

Found the same, amazing how many street lights are kaput as well! Trying to be ultra careful not to twist an ankle or worse. :eek:

The Muppet · 04-10-2016 08:24PM

You grand mince pies are classed as Fruit .

That may be only in my mind.

nop98 · 04-10-2016 08:30PM

ligerdub wrote: »

I had my first week off from running, pretty much all year. Post half marathon and sinus problems left me fairly unable to get the necessary training done.

My next run after that point was an 18km run which took just under 90 minutes. To be honest I felt great all the way through and afterwards.

I'm wondering if I just assume the level of training I was doing in the run-up to the HM straight away, ramp it up, or reduce?
I'm curious if I can fit in essentially 2 run-free weeks (last week and the week before the marathon) as good preparation for the race?

P.s. I put on 1kg in that idle week....oops!!

Hi ligerlub - are you following any structured plan? If not, straight over to the first page of this thread, please, to find a link to both the HHN1 and boards plans we're following here. It has a day-by-day, week-by-week mileage prescription. It should give you an idea of how to structure your weeks ahead.

bucketybuck wrote: »

Longest run so far was 28km 4 weeks ago. Unfortunately the modified HHN1 swaps the planned 29km for the DCHM which is something I was always concerned about, it leaves the HH1 short on very long runs and puts a lot of importance on the one 32km run. Even the 28km I did was only supposed to be 25.8, I think had I done that 29km I think I might be less concerned now.

Regardless of that, the physio went as well as could be expected. As an aside, I went to a new physio last night and am very glad I did, I never realised how poor my last one was. This new guy was far more engaged in checking everything and putting me through my paces to really find any and all issues I was having, it made a big difference. I had been at the old one a few weeks ago for a check up and massage but last night was miles better! Get a good physio folks! Its like your shoes, once you've been to a good one you won't go back to the old style!

Anyway, the injury. Surprisingly, he doesn't think that it will necessarily stop me from running. I had a lot of tight muscles in a lot of places and need to focus on stretching more diligently, but in terms of my groin strain he feels that as long as I manage it, it shouldn't prevent me from continuing on. With all the caveats of course, that I stop if I feel it tightening up and that I take it easy, but easy running won't necessarily do any great harm and that I would be better served focusing on stretching out the causes rather than resting up and waiting for it to heal.

I'm pretty sure what caused this injury was one little thing, I had been feeling so good lately that my pace had increased on my long runs. Its not that I had intentionally sped up, more that I hadn't stopped myself from doing it naturally, but I was going quicker than I should and it seems I have paid the price. Slow down folks!

So that where I'm at. I have a groin strain but I did my 8k tonight and although my groin was a constant presence, it doesn't seem to be any worse for the run. So I'll continue on with the plan. I may as well bring some knitting with me though, because from now on these runs are going to be so slow I'll need something to keep me awake.

Well - that sounds like it went as well as it good have gone. Continue on with the plan, and the rule-of-thumb is worth repeating: a dull little pain/discomfort that doesn't get any worse is ok. Any sharp pain or increasingly worse constant pain obviously should not be ignored.

So for your long-ish runs, just make sure you're not doing a long out-and-back and might find yourself stranded 10km from home/car. Other than that, super glad to hear you're picking up knitting getting back stuck in

Oh, and +1 to this point

another future mentor, no doubt!

nop98 · 04-10-2016 08:33PM

Extrasupervery wrote: »

Thanks for the advice and kind words following my ****ty LSR, you're all very very sound.

I took your advice nop and put it behind me. Didn't quite get 5 miles in as it got very dark very quickly and the park gets weird at night. It now gets dark before 19.00, boo-urns.

Felt good though, I think apart from getting miles in the legs it quietens my head to just get out and run and not over-analyse times and days left and the rest of it. In saying that I'm very intimidated by this next LSR. I'll co-ordinate efforts with A Neurotic for those who want to meet up, does the Hole in the Wall car park/Park entrance suit for a meet up point next Saturday morning?

Great ESV - keep the head up. Don't worry about times, paces, etc - just clock up miles and enjoy them! Same for Saturday. :pac:

Unfortunately, I can't make it to the Saturday meet, much as I would have liked to. Your running hero (junior nop) has two hurling matches AND wants to do a parkrun on Saturday. :eek:

tony1980 · 04-10-2016 08:38PM

Another 5 miles easy in tonight, no issues with the knee at all. I got herself to use the massage stick on the legs before the run and done a lot of good stretching afterwards and feel great. I felt a little sluggish on the run but I expect it to take a few runs to get the fitness back to normal.

I have arranged to do this weeks LSR with my brother and a few of his friends who are training for DCM too, will be nice to have some company on a long run for a change!

nop98 · 04-10-2016 08:43PM

JackieChan wrote: »

Is the marathon route marked in miles only? I can't remember seeing km markers used at half race?

diego_b wrote: »

It's marked in miles for each mile, possibly there are 5K markers but I can't recall or see anything on the FAQs for it.

It's marked in miles. For those of us preferring the modern kilometers, running a race in miles can be somewhat daunting. Imagine shuffling through the crowds in the inner-city for what feels like quite a while, and then you see a big sign with...

1

... and then you realize you have to repeat what you just done, 26 times. :eek:

Kilometer signs just happen to come more often. Even the great TFB says that running 42(.2) kilometers is easier than 26(.2) miles - so it must be true.

Joking aside - I also wanted to mention that there are several timing mats throughout the course. If memory serves, 10km, HM, 30km and, obviously, the finish - you can have everyone you know follow you on the live tracker as these splits are uploaded instantly.

The Muppet · 04-10-2016 08:51PM

tony1980 wrote: »

Another 5 miles easy in tonight, no issues with the knee at all. I got herself to use the massage stick on the legs before the run and done a lot of good stretching afterwards and feel great. I felt a little sluggish on the run but I expect it to take a few runs to get the fitness back to normal.

I have arranged to do this weeks LSR with my brother and a few of his friends who are training for DCM too, will be nice to have some company on a long run for a change!

Good to see the comback going well tony , those massage sticks are the business . I've been using one regularly for the last few months .

FITZA · 04-10-2016 08:57PM

Thanks Nop for the good wishes with the 3/4....I will not race it, I promise

Who else is doing it??

"As we begin tapering soon, it would be interesting to maybe hear from all those that started out in the thread and let us know how it's going and what their current thoughts are and how they've maybe revised targets up or down. Obviously don't want to be stirring up any bad news or upsetting anyone that's had to depart due to injury etc so apologies if it comes across bad.."
Paddydriver....after the 3/4 I should have updated thoughts

That new race time predictor has me at 4.07.xx ... McMillan shows at least 10 mins+ better!!! I think the new one is quite realistic when I look at the predictors and actuals from last years novices.

The Black Oil · 04-10-2016 09:02PM

Mince pies? I was waiting for nop to announce he's Santa.

tony1980 · 04-10-2016 10:05PM

The Muppet wrote: »

Good to see the comback going well tony , those massage sticks are the business . I've been using one regularly for the last few months .

Thanks TM, they sure are, just got herself to give the legs another going over, was sore in certain areas but God does it feel good afterwards!!

kabuxa · 05-10-2016 07:12AM

FITZA wrote:

Thanks Nop for the good wishes with the 3/4....I will not race it, I promise Who else is doing it??

Hi fitza I am doing it!
It will be definetely a slow one. My calf is getting better and I managed to do 19 miles of the marathon route. Shockingly, but I guess it makes sense, everything was going well until started downhill... omg.... that was sore. Walking for a bit and it was ok. Then everything else was sore ;0) hips... oh well...
Yesterday I did 4 miles and was ok.. not very sore and today ok-ish. Wearing compression shocks day and night... however I have a good pair of beautiful roundy calves and the top of the socks are a bit too tight... what can i do... try to loosen it a bit? Thanks!

splashthecash · 05-10-2016 07:33AM

Did 5 miles yesterday morning, have 10m tonight (ugh..) and then 5m tomorrow...i ran 17 last Saturday and scheduled to do 20 this weekend...that'll be my longest run ever. Whoohoo! Hard to believe we'll be starting to taper off after this weekend.

Does anyone else only have one 20m LSR in their marathon plan? I'm doing Half Higdon but I think I got the template plan off boards here

seanin4711 · 05-10-2016 07:41AM

hi,All came to the game later than I would have liked(got invite 3 weeks ago) anyways 3 x 13milers done and 1 20miler for LSR's so far.
Planning 2 more 20milers and a half M week before(time not on my side- condense training/balancing training and not getting injured).
Will Get Physio once a week from now until the big day.
I am doing 10-12km Monday(speed) and Wednesday(hills) plus LSR (21km-32km) on Friday afternoon. looking at circa 55+kms a week.
Done 7 marathons before but have not run in a year consistently.
Best of luck to all in their training!
J

paddydriver · 05-10-2016 07:49AM

kin9pin wrote: »

Good tip. Always carry a spare drawstring on your runs Seriously though, I'd say we all know what shorts we'll wear on the day so that would really throw me if it happened to THAT pair on the 30th.

Not only do I know what pair of shorts and t-shirt I will wear on the day.. I have ordered a 2nd set off Adidas and waiting on delivery. I've gone for the slightly shorter shorts in the shorts though..

Once received I will wear them on a few runs to make sure fit is exact same as current and then have them all ready for the day.

paddydriver · 05-10-2016 07:54AM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

McMillan: 3:49:09
Runner's World: 4:01:21

McMillan is way better. :pac:

McMillan gave me 3:45

and Runners World was 3:57..:cool: Think Runners World is probably better one to think about for me as all my pace calculations etc have me thinking about that area but the bit that worries me is that there is little room for error.

tailgunner · 05-10-2016 08:01AM

McMillan and Runners World were both a little off for me.

The old "double your half marathon time and add twenty minutes" was pretty much spot on.

davedanon · 05-10-2016 08:14AM

tailgunner wrote: »

McMillan and Runners World were both a little off for me.

The old "double your half marathon time and add twenty minutes" was pretty much spot on.

Plus 10 minutes was what I used to hear. Although I reckon that doubling half time and adding 10% is a better way. That way it works for a 3 hour or 5.5 hour marathon.

paddydriver · 05-10-2016 08:19AM

kin9pin wrote: »

5m easy tonight. I was a bit nervous after feeling stiff on Saturday, but I didn't feel the shin at all. Strange running in the dark again, really have to keep your wits about you on the badly lit paths.

I did try compression socks tonight and I think I'll continue with them as you can certainly feel the extra support. I'll try them on the long run on Saturday to see if they'll work for DCM.
I did have a think about how much the socks cost and how much the whole marathon has cost (so far). Between gels, drink, bars, gear (lots of), runners x2, bodyglide, Epsom salts, physio etc. etc. I've spent a small fortune. All worth it though.

On another note, my wife went shopping today and I found mince pies in the cupboard! I love mince pies, can't resist them.

Hey A, I actually thought the Sandyford Ind Estate loop was great.. I run past it so much and never thought to run it. The main loop around is just slightly over 2Km and the paths are all lit. Few uneven bits but in general all is good.

Did the 5M too fast though and I had a few layers on also due to me stopping into Beacon Hosp for half hour and not wanting to be in standard shorts and t-shirt.. running in lots of layers made it a tougher run as I did heat up more! Makes me really wonder how people can run long races with layers on.,:eek:

paddydriver · 05-10-2016 08:26AM

tailgunner wrote: »

McMillan and Runners World were both a little off for me.

The old "double your half marathon time and add twenty minutes" was pretty much spot on.

I like that calculation.. Ironically enough just slightly below what the Runners World gave me. No room for error so really need to count on a perfect day out with no (major) unforseen's..

budhistmonk · 05-10-2016 08:27AM

splashthecash wrote: »

Did 5 miles yesterday morning, have 10m tonight (ugh..) and then 5m tomorrow...i ran 17 last Saturday and scheduled to do 20 this weekend...that'll be my longest run ever. Whoohoo! Hard to believe we'll be starting to taper off after this weekend.

Does anyone else only have one 20m LSR in their marathon plan? I'm doing Half Higdon but I think I got the template plan off boards here

Yep I'm doing HHN2 and the HHN1 and HHN2 have only 1 x 20m LSR included which I believe are both on this upcoming weekend.

budhistmonk · 05-10-2016 08:44AM

I think I am am having some success with managing my plantar fasciitis which was beginning to worry me. I was in Amphibian King in Bray yesterday to buy some gels and mentioned it to Damian in there and he directed me to a video on this problem he posted some weeks back. Doing this twice a day and icing afterwards has helped me hugely already. Also he suggested to wear an old pair of properly fitted running shoes around the house (well as much as I can) for a few day as these probably give the best arch support for my feet of all the shoes i have. I think I will take today off running to give it one more day and get back to it tomorrow. If all goes well tomorrow I will try the 20m lsr on Sat but will build in some options for quitting the run if the heel pain returns. So basically I'll be doing laps

My PT is back from his vacation next week so will book in with him for some expert advice.

Here is the link for what it is worth to anyone. Word of caution - be prepared for some pain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hauyuX-uCq8

kin9pin · 05-10-2016 08:52AM

paddydriver wrote: »

Hey A, I actually thought the Sandyford Ind Estate loop was great.. I run past it so much and never thought to run it. The main loop around is just slightly over 2Km and the paths are all lit. Few uneven bits but in general all is good.

Did the 5M too fast though and I had a few layers on also due to me stopping into Beacon Hosp for half hour and not wanting to be in standard shorts and t-shirt.. running in lots of layers made it a tougher run as I did heat up more! Makes me really wonder how people can run long races with layers on.,:eek:

I stayed on the right because I was adding Burton Hall Rd, by Woodies. I should really stick to the left, it does seem to be lit better

With you on the layers, I prefer to feel on the cold side at the start.

kin9pin · 05-10-2016 08:57AM

paddydriver wrote: »

I like that calculation.. Ironically enough just slightly below what the Runners World gave me. No room for error so really need to count on a perfect day out with no (major) unforseen's..

That gives me 4:00:36! Looks like it's an 8:30 final mile

Dublin Marathon 2016 - Mentored Novices Thread

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