Monty ?

As a man Monty is an out and out oddball, a weirdo, or a crackpot as they might say in Glasgow.

Everything around his demeanor and mannerisms just screams strange - as Fix said he's a public school boy from the very, very old school Scottish moneyed golfing establishment.

As a Scottish golfer though I was a huge supporter and, joking aside, people easily forget what a golfing machine he was - 6 order of merits in 7 years, 7 in total - will never be equaled. People also forget he couldn't putt but by god, tee to green the man could be the best, most consistent ever IMO(top 3 at least).

If you look through the records, when he wasn't winning, he was finishing 2nd or 3rd. Ultimately his putting and bottle let him down in the end which is a shame as he had the talent to win multiple majors - but the didn't and that's the bottom line.

yaboya1 wrote: »

Most of them were solid enough for a period of time.
There are far worse examples than that:

Todd Hamilton
Rich Beem
Shaun Micheel.....

Where are they now?
The one's in your post are still playing afaik

Todd Hamilton and Shaun Micheel are still playing, albeit in a small number of events. Rich Beem as we know is working for Sky and just turns up for the PGA every year.

Shaun Micheel is very unusual as his only ever PGA win was in a major. He also had a win on the Asian tour and the 'Nike' tour. That's the sort of thing that would really p1ss Monty off.

ronjo wrote: »

Doing him a slight disservice here.

He has 8 European Tour Order of Merit wins including 7 in a row. Thats just ridiculous.

That would indicate that he was simply excellent at being a 'professional' golfer. He is arguably one of the greatest drivers of the ball the game has ever seen with his long stock fade. Having that on tap would allow you to become a very successful player in terms of accruing prize money along with the necessary insular stubborn focus he has.

The order of merit is simply a mathematical prize. You earned the most in a particular season so here's a crystal trophy and a round of applause.

Westwood leads the career money list on the european tour. Donald won the orders of merit on both the PGA/Euro tours. Both have been world number 1. They were both incredibly consistent players. Neither have a major championship. Nor does Monty. It's like Messi. He never got there on the international stage. He will always have an asterisk next to his name in a debate about the best players.

They don't label it the Order of Merit Champion.

You don't hear Woods, Nicklaus, Els, Faldo et al reminiscing about their order of merit titles or their Ryder Cup 'wins'.

Winning Majors takes care of the order of merit

It just never happened for Monty. He's had his chances, his US open/PGA play offs, his make a par and you win a major moments. Call it choking or bad luck, that's the question. He is certainly on the list of best players to never win a major that's certain. However, it strikes me that if he had made the breakthrough then he would be more insufferable, like England and 1966, you'd never hear the end of it

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

"So Shaun, you may have a major, but how many Ryder Cups did you play in ? None ?!?!? What sort of a record is that ? Call yourself a golfer? Do you even swing?
You havent felt pressure. You havent delivered when a whole continent depends on you. Some of us have done that time and time again. That my friend with the strangely spelt Irish-German name, is what matters. Let me tell you. I was that soldier, and I know what I'm talking about. USPGA, ShmUSPGA"

C+

Must try harder....

never liked the fella

had a horrible spoilt brat demeanor on the golf course

not my cup of tea - chuffed he never won a major

The hate for man exhibited by somein this thread is nothing short of extraordinary, not one of you knows the man, you only know his public persona and to stand in judgement over that is beyond stupid, shame on you Fix for starting a thread like this, I thought you were classier than that.

No i dont generally mind monty but did anyone else notice when phil was down looking at pieters getting a ruling and was bascally putting his two cents in on saturday morning i think. Monty was saying that phil shouldnt be there at all and should be minding his own business.

was that not the kind of stuff monty would do as a player or am i thinking of someone else.

He was in his pomp during the era of one of the greatest players to ever play the game. That being said I don't think the overall quality of the era was enough to stop him from winning a major or two if you're a really great player.

I was always a big fan of Monty's game. In my early days of playing the game I wanted to style my swing on his, particularly as a ehhhh "fade" came quite naturally to me ha! Say what you want about him on a personal level, but if I had to depend on anybody to rip a drive down the fairway it would be him. He was rarely anything but accurate.

It's no surprise that the US Open was his greatest opportunity to win a big one. His high flight game never suited The Open, and given that the Masters is typically about big driving rather than accurate driving, as well as deft touch around the greens, this was not one which really suited his game either. The PGA is a bit of a turkey shoot usually, more of a standard tour event than the other majors, so he stood a decent shot at that one too (incidentally one of his nearest misses). But for a top class driver of the ball with a solid overall game the US Open is the king of majors.

I don't think I've ever been as disappointed about a golf tournament as his blowup at Winged Foot in 2006. That was such a tough setup that week, and after a couple of dropped shots early doors in that round he put in one of the gutsiest rounds of golf I've ever seen. When he got that birdie on 17 I nearly fell off my seat, just brilliant. At that stage I figured all he needed was a par on 18, which turned out to be correct. What a lot of people forget about that last hole was there was a huge tree on the left just in front of the teebox. This was probably the only player in the field where this represented a major problem for. He ended up hitting a beautiful faded drive taking on the aggressive line. He had the tournament won at that stage. 160 yards in, 7 iron at a beautiful angle, he simply couldn't miss, but he did, and it was a total choke. He looked absolutely horrified after it all, I can't imagine how bad it must have felt. I think the most standout moment from this was the relative surprise of it all. He wasn't in particularly good form around that time, so it had a real feel of his last big shot at the big one.

In Winged Foot he messed up, in Congressional in 97 he had it in his grasp but was usurped by a moment of genius from Ernie Els, and the same in the 95 PGA by Steve Elkington. With all due respect to Elkington and Geoff Ogilvie, those guys aren't fit to clean Monty's clubs. He was all but the winner in 92 also, he was in the clubhouse watching Tom Kite put in a very improbable run to the finish to take it from him there.

I think the biggest statement about how good he was is how his status compared against other players. If you look at former Ryder Cup teammates of him, very few would have been more of a scalp than Monty, and many of these were major champs or would be World Number 1's. Think of the like of Olazabal, Clarke, Westwood, Donald, Harrington, Langer, Woosnam. Monty was like a giant of a man compared to these guys. The only ones who weren't dwarfed by his status were Seve and Faldo. It's inexplicable how he failed to win the US Open or PGA, he was just too good a player to miss out, but sadly he did. I guess the fact that the galleries really willed on anybody he was up against probably didn't help him out much!

I guess it depends on how high a standard to assign to this debate. Is "a great" only a player who wins a handful of majors, or something else. He is without a doubt a Hall of Famer though, no matter how you look at it.

Good topic by the way.

Enjoying the thread. As is the case so often these days anyone who excels in a particular field can expect their public persona to come under a lot of scrutiny. In Monty's case he without any doubt excelled at golf and so should rightfully be celebrated for that.

Regarding his trials with the majors, I remember Nicklaus and Monty being interviewed on sky sports and the interviewer posed a question along the lines...'what is it like to stand on the first tee on the last day of a major knowing that you have a chance of winning?'

Monty spoke at length about how there is nothing else like it in golf and how anyone would be doing well just to hit the ball never mind find the first fairway etc. When Monty eventually finished, Nicklaus casually quipped that the last day of a major was just the same as any other day playing golf for him.

And therein lies the difference

I recall one tournament he played in and was getting absolute dogs abuse from the crowd. He always got dreadful treatment in the States.

As he was walking off the green after a hole he messed up on he shouts up "save your cheering to the Ryder Cup" to the galleries. They hated him, but he hated them too.

ligerdub wrote: »

To be fair therein lies the difference between Nicklaus and pretty much every other golfer who has been in that position. I'd possibly include Tiger in with Jack on that score, but with a hint of doubt.

True - but I suppose it does highlight Nicklaus' unshakable self-belief versus Monty's inherent tendency and acceptance to allow the magnitude of the moment to get between his ears.

I don't mind the guy (too much) and I really admire his game but I feel he is a good example of someone possessing qualities which made them very successful in one field but the same qualities when undisguised in everyday life are pretty unpalatable.

On a separate point I wonder does he signal the end of a particular type of golfer who finds his swing as a very young golfer and uses that same swing unchanged throughout his career