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Councillor protests against Artane Boys Band from City Hall window ledge

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Comments

  • #32
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    The flying mouse wrote: »
    Gardaí were called to Dublin's City Hall this afternoon after independent councillor Mannix Flynn protested from a window about the Artane Boys Band.
    That makes him sound like the villain from a charles dickens novel. Maybe this is just the start of something and we'll get a story around Christmas time of him shouting out the window telling them to run down to lidl and buy the largest goose they can find.


  • #33
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    I don't agree with the chap in general but I don't think he's lying when he says it causes him distress. Nor do I think the victims got sufficient justice. In the words of Christopher Hitchen's in regards institutional abuse "what were your gaurds doing?".


  • #34
    Dirty Dingus McGee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    Esel wrote: »
    Excuse me for truncating/abbreviating your post. But anyway...

    Important stuff, you say. Riiight. Important for who, exactly?

    JCMcQ? Justice for who? Exactly.

    It's a trivial issue he is raising (not to make light of what happened to him there).

    The band is from Artane therefore they are called the Artane Band.


  • #35
    The flying mouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭The flying mouse


    Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »
    It's a trivial issue he is raising (not to make light of what happened to him there).

    The band is from Artane therefore they are called the Artane Band.

    Nope its not because of the area its because of the School they were named.

    “The Artane Boys Band was founded in 1872 by Brother Alphonsus Hoope, Superior of the Artane Industrial School.

    Artane is a word long weighed down with its association with the industrial school. As journalist Gene Kerrigan remarked in his memoir of growing up in working class Dublin in the 1950s, Artane was a “byword for fear”, backed by a largely unspoken knowledge that horrible things happened there and to be sent there was the worst form of punishment.


  • #36
    Sleepy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 25,000 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Which would have been part of the reason they re-branded as the The Artane School of Music whose members play in the "Artane Band".

    Here's their take on it: http://artanemusic.ie/official-statement-from-the-artane-school-of-music/

    Essentially, as a not-for-profit, private organisation, all Mr Flynn can do is have the Council call on the School of Music to change their name. They have absolutely no legal means of forcing them to do so.

    Cllr Flynn is simply wasting the council's time in an attempt to exorcise his own demons and contributing to the high levels of disregard the Irish have for their local govt.

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  • #37
    Dirty Dingus McGee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    The flying mouse wrote: »
    Nope its not because of the area its because of the School they were named.

    “The Artane Boys Band was founded in 1872 by Brother Alphonsus Hoope, Superior of the Artane Industrial School.

    Artane is a word long weighed down with its association with the industrial school. As journalist Gene Kerrigan remarked in his memoir of growing up in working class Dublin in the 1950s, Artane was a “byword for fear”, backed by a largely unspoken knowledge that horrible things happened there and to be sent there was the worst form of punishment.

    But the school is named after the area.

    The area came first.

    They already changed the name to The Artane Band.

    What would you suggest they call the band?

    The Germans haven't changed the name of Nuremberg,Dachau etc.

    Whitewashing history isn't really a good thing to be doing.


  • #38
    The flying mouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭The flying mouse


    Haven't a clue what we could call it ? The stardust memorial band ?

    I don't think there's marching bands going around with the name numemberg ,dachau playing there music in the German football finals.

    I don't think that history will ever be white washed, well hopefully not.


  • #39
    Skyfarm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 235 ✭✭Skyfarm


    The flying mouse wrote: »
    Haven't a clue what we could call it ? The stardust memorial band ?

    I don't think there's marching bands going around with the name numemberg ,dachau playing there music in the German football finals.

    I don't think that history will ever be white washed, well hopefully not.

    That history is the same as our history,smaller numbers but the ethos was the same,destroy and stain on humanity and all that goes with that..


  • #40
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,442 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Samaris wrote: »
    Forty seven years later isn't really the time to decide that a "brand" is too tainted to survive. The school is long-gone and those responsible were punished and their victims vindicated.

    There is no good reason to go after the band because they have a similar name. That they changed it from The Artane Boys (which could well be a call-back to Artane Boys' (School) to The Artane Band should be enough. It's a town, for heaven's sake.

    To be fair though, after 47 years there's still people alive who went there. You couldn't imagine them keeping anything with Jimmy Saville's name on it. I don't think anything will change in 100 year either. They'll still be names after an abusive institution.

    Changing the name slightly is probably best. The Artane village boys band or something like that.

    Editing to add: Or maybe have a free performance every year to support a childrens charity like childline. That way they keep the name but recognise the history too.


  • #41
    Turtle_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 640 ✭✭✭Turtle_


    Grayson wrote: »
    To be fair though, after 47 years there's still people alive who went there. You couldn't imagine them keeping anything with Jimmy Saville's name on it. I don't think anything will change in 100 year either. They'll still be names after an abusive institution.

    Changing the name slightly is probably best. The Artane village boys band or something like that.

    Editing to add: Or maybe have a free performance every year to support a childrens charity like childline. That way they keep the name but recognise the history too.

    They DID change the name slightly, it's the Artane Band, rather than the Artane Boy's Band. And your comparison to Jimmy Saville is irrelevant - the AREA is called Artane. Why should the whole area and everyone in it have to avoid using the name of the area?

    BTW, the school was St Joseph's Industrial School, located in Artane.

    What should they call the band? "The between-Coolock-Killester-Beaumont-and-Marino-Girls'-and-Boys'-band"?

    The area is called Artane.


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  • #42
    NickNickleby
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,913 ✭✭✭NickNickleby


    My sons were members of the Artane Boys Band - before the name change. They had their names down for a couple of years before getting in. They and their friends thoroughly enjoyed their time there. They learned to play musical instruments and also obtained internationally recognised qualifications in music - the result of 5 days a week practise winter and summer.

    In those times, there was no hint of the horrors inflicted on their predecessors decades before. The Band was then (and since) administered by employed (and volunteer) management and tutors.

    None of those boys (now men) wants the name changed or the Band broken up.

    I had two distant relatives incarcerated in what was better known as the Artane Industrial School. I met one of them when he was in his 60's, about 25 years ago, and he simply refused to ever discuss the matter. However, as a child I lived in England, and I remember the Irish neighbours saying "you'll go to Artane if you misbehave!" and I heard from my mother the tales of the two cousins getting out of Artane for a few weeks in the summer and begging the neighbours to take them in so they wouldn't be sent back.

    The school is now the local Secondary School - St David's. Housed in the same building. Same playing fields.

    The school is now a happy place. The Band is now a happy place. Leave them alone. Sins of the fathers and all that.. (or should that be 'of the Brothers').

    NN


  • #43
    josip
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,058 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Our neighbour and his 3 siblings, now in their 70s, were sent to Artane.
    His intelligence is normal but he has great difficulty functioning socially with others adults. He is great with children.
    On the rare occasions when the subject of Artane comes up, he shakes his head and doesn't discuss it.

    For my generation and before, 'Artane' only means one thing.
    It's a byword for cruelty and fear, not for music.


  • #44
    The flying mouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭The flying mouse


    Turtle_ wrote: »
    They DID change the name slightly, it's the Artane Band, rather than the Artane Boy's Band. And your comparison to Jimmy Saville is irrelevant - the AREA is called Artane. Why should the whole area and everyone in it have to avoid using the name of the area?

    BTW, the school was St Joseph's Industrial School, located in Artane.

    What should they call the band? "The between-Coolock-Killester-Beaumont-and-Marino-Girls'-and-Boys'-band"?

    The area is called Artane.

    Nope this is the official name
    On 28 July 1870, the Artane Industrial School for Roman Catholic Boys, also known as St Joseph's, was officially certified to receive boys up to the age of 14...

    No one is asking the whole area to change its name just a musical marching band that is using the name of a former sexual abusive school for children to maybe something more appreciated,

    Where as at first I did thing MF was going a bit over the top, The more I read up on the school were the band originated from the more I think he is right.


  • #45
    Turtle_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 640 ✭✭✭Turtle_


    The flying mouse wrote: »
    Nope this is the official name
    On 28 July 1870, the Artane Industrial School for Roman Catholic Boys, also known as St Joseph's, was officially certified to receive boys up to the age of 14...

    No one is asking the whole area to change its name just a musical marching band that is using the name of a former sexual abusive school for children to maybe something more appreciated,

    Where as at first I did thing MF was going a bit over the top, The more I read up on the school were the band originated from the more I think he is right.


    http://www.childabusecommission.ie/rpt/pdfs/CICA-VOL1-07.PDF

    "St Joseph’s Industrial School, Artane was established under the Industrial Schools Act (Ireland),
    1868 by the Christian Brothers at the request of the then Archbishop of Dublin, Cardinal Cullen.
    It opened on 28th July 1870 with the aim of caring for neglected, orphaned and abandoned Roman
    Catholic boys, and it operated as an industrial school until its closure in 1969."


    The point is that for the last 50 years, it's been a band for local kids, run by decent local people. Why shouldn't it be the Artane Band? That's where they're all from, Artane is where it originated. Nobody is whitewashing history.


  • #46
    Fleawuss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Fleawuss


    I'm as irreligious a bollix you will meet in a week but this idea is pure Shyte. It changes nothing and throws out one of the good things to survive that appalling era. If a ****ing band helps some kid get a start in life then let it go.


  • #47
    Rented Mule
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,154 ✭✭✭Rented Mule


    The flying mouse wrote: »
    This could be just for the Dublin forum ?

    Gardaí were called to Dublin's City Hall this afternoon after independent councillor Mannix Flynn protested from a window about the Artane Boys Band.

    Cllr Flynn and other survivors of institutional abuse are campaigning to have the band disbanded because of its connection to Artane Industrial School.

    He has put down a motion calling for the band to be disbanded.
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1003/821179-mannix-flynn-artane-boys-band/


    So basically Mannix Flynn want the Artane boys band disbanded because of its links to the Artane industrial school, As far as I recall he was one of the unfortunate victims of it.


    Do you think it should be disbanded ? I suppose it be nice for a name change at least.

    The Ryan Commission found that Artane was under-staffed by a small number of largely inexperienced and untrained Brothers.[4] As a result of complaints the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse investigated allegations of abuse at Artane:The Commission concluded that sexual abuse of children by members of the Christian Brothers was "a chronic problem

    https://www.google.es/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwikz47Usb_PAhWEaz4KHe2BAZgQFggeMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FArtane_Industrial_school&usg=AFQjCNG9RtVTZsUOvvf4MCAI2SmddmRemw



    I'd say he should start with disbanding the Catholic Church.


  • #48
    JPCN1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 966 ✭✭✭JPCN1


    I demand your attention... Give it me, coz I, I, I am Mannix Flynn Baby.


  • #49
    muddypaws
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,616 ✭✭✭muddypaws


    My Dad was sent to an industrial school, two of his brothers and my cousin were sent to Artane. He moved to the UK after he was released, but used to love listening to and watching the band at the big GAA occasions on radio and TV. I think he liked the fact that it had evolved and became a good thing for local kids, but I think in a strange way he felt that he had a connection with the band, and was proud of it. Maybe it was a reminder that he, his brothers and nephew did survive.


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