Ryder Cup 2016

yaboya1 · 03-10-2016 08:13PM

Jayop wrote: »

Clarke had to announce the afternoon pairings before Garcia and Bello had made their fight back. That one's a bit of a false accusation, although if he had been told how well they were playing together then it's a fair argument that he shouldn't have pulled them.

I don't really think the scoreline is reflective of Clarke's ability to captain the side. 1/2 games going the other way on the final day and the score wouldn't have looked half as bad. I think the American's were just that much better this time and they set the course up 100% for their strengths which is their right.

It's not a false accusation. The fightback was under way by 11:40. Are you saying the captain of the team wasn't aware of how his team were performing? What was he doing up until 11:39? Watching something else? Anyway, at that point Cabrera-Bello was 1/1 and behind but hadn't lost. Kaymer had already lost 2/2 and was playing terribly. I don't get the logic of putting a clearly out of form player into the mix. What's he basing his selections on then? We know it wasn't form anyway.

The momentum was back with America going into Sunday. If it had stayed with Europe overnight, the scoreline would have been a hell of a lot tighter on Sunday evening regardless of the result . They needed not to lose that fourball session, but those terrible selections contributed heavily to ensuring that didn't happen.

yaboya1 · 03-10-2016 08:23PM

Hoof Hearted2 wrote: »

Quoting the scoreline to back up your points only serves to highlight your ignorance of how the ride her cup works, a win is a win is a win, the scoreline is irrelevant and doesn't tell the full story. Even given all your "expert" points, the fact is had Westwood made the putt on Saturday evening there would have been only 2 points in it on Sunday and had Rory won his game like he should have the momentum (which by the way cannot be underestimated) would have been with the Europeans and almost certainly would have lead to victory.
It's normal for fans to bitch and moan after a defeat, but Jesus 99.99% of the waffle in thread misses the point completely and that is that the Americans performed better and deserved the win.

Saying the scoreline is irrelevant is the most stupid thing I have ever heard. Is that not how the winner is decided.

Yes, 'if' Westwood holed his putt. But he didn't. Not that surprising considering he was probably the worst putter playing in the competition. If he was a better putter, he might have won a few majors too. But guess what, he didn't do that either.

I'm pretty sure I highlighted how important the momentum was in my original post, yet you're trying to use that point against me? They lost momentum because a poor putter who had proven his poor form the day before missed a short putt. And another out of form player failed to pull his weight in a pairing having replaced an in-form rookie who had gelled well with his fellow countryman.

Poor team selection caused the loss of momentum. No doubt about it.

Hoof Hearted2 · 03-10-2016 08:39PM

yaboya1 wrote: »

My ignorance of the ride her cup? Ok?
Saying the scoreline is irrelevant is the most stupid thing I have ever heard. Is that not how the winner is decided.

Yes, 'if' Westwood holed his putt. But he didn't. Not that surprising considering he was probably the worst putter playing in the competition. If he was a better putter, he might have won a few majors too. But guess what, he didn't do that either.

I'm pretty sure I highlighted how important the momentum was in my original post, yet you're trying to use that point against me? They lost momentum because a poor putter who had proven his poor form the day before missed a short putt. And another out of form player failed to pull his weight in a pairing having replaced an in-form rookie who had gelled well with his fellow countryman.

Poor team selection caused the loss of momentum. No doubt about it.

Can't wait to see how you get on when you're captain.
Of course it's the most stupid thing you've ever heard, because you, like most of the know it alls don't know the difference between the result and scoreline.
In this case the result is known when the team who is not currently in possession of the ride her cup wins 14 1/2 points or 14 points in the case of the team defending the cup, what happens after that is irrelevant insofar as it doesn't affect the result but does affect the scoreline ( which in some cases is irrelevant as it doesn't tell the full story, as is the case this year).

Rikand · 03-10-2016 08:42PM

The best way to win any argument..... point out grammatical errors. :rolleyes:

yaboya1 · 03-10-2016 08:43PM

Hoof Hearted2 wrote: »

the ride her cup

This is hurting my eyes.
Are you doing it on purpose?

FixdePitchmark · 03-10-2016 08:46PM

Hoof Hearted2 wrote: »

Quoting the scoreline to back up your points only serves to highlight your ignorance of how the ride her cup works, a win is a win is a win, the scoreline is irrelevant and doesn't tell the full story. Even given all your "expert" points, the fact is had Westwood made the putt on Saturday evening there would have been only 2 points in it on Sunday and had Rory won his game like he should have the momentum (which by the way cannot be underestimated) would have been with the Europeans and almost certainly would have lead to victory.
It's normal for fans to bitch and moan after a defeat, but Jesus 99.99% of the waffle in thread misses the point completely and that is that the Americans performed better and deserved the win.

Yes - but this is a golf forum.

Not a chat with a lad in work who played golf once.
Or a club golfer off a mid handicap - who thinks over 40 points is normal.

Like we are actaully into golf.
The detail
How it was won
The finer detail
The technicalities
The course
The conditions
The squad and team around the teams
The clubs used
The distances to each pin
How the yanks planed and executed the plan
The fans
The press
The caddies
Even the wives
The equipment

I know there are some lads who play golf a bit and love to talk about
"Putt for show" :rolleyes: or is it "drive"

"Never up"
"100 % of short putts"
or a few lads who walk in after a few holes in the rain.

But this is a golf forum. There should be no shame in wanting to know the detail.

There is better stuff here than you would read or hear in the media or sky.

I mean, Sky were saying it was the best golf ever played.

But people who actually understand golf - understood, it was the easiest golf they had ever seen in a Ryder Cup.

Yes there are some posts here having a bit of fun.

But excellent posts above post event.

America - were in an incredible position and made sure they won it. But after all that, the Europeans - bizarrely had a chance.

yaboya1 · 03-10-2016 08:52PM

Hoof Hearted2 wrote: »

Can't wait to see how you get on when you're captain.
Of course it's the most stupid thing you've ever heard, because you, like most of the know it alls don't know the difference between the result and scoreline.
In this case the result is known when the team who is not currently in possession of the ride her cup wins 14 1/2 points or 14 points in the case of the team defending the cup, what happens after that is irrelevant insofar as it doesn't affect the result but does affect the scoreline ( which in some cases is irrelevant as it doesn't tell the full story, as is the case this year).

I'm aware of how the RYDER Cup works. They wouldn't have lost 17-11 and it would have been far more difficult for America to get to the required total (14.5) if they were on 8/8.5 going into Sunday, rather than 9.5 (which is closer to 14.5). The result was known earlier than it would have been if Europe's team selection was better on Saturday afternoon. The final scoreline is irrelevant in relation to the result, but you can't win by a big margin if the match goes to the wire. That was never going to happen after Saturday afternoon and highlights Clarke's poor pairing picks.

Keano · 03-10-2016 08:57PM

Don't be a smart ass. No one likes them

Russman · 03-10-2016 09:11PM

I don't think there's one answer to why they lost really. On one hand its sport and someone has to lose. But Clarke's selections & pairings aside, I think that some of the European players, on a course set up like Hazletine was, are simply not quite on the same level as most of that US team. On a different layout they may well be better than them, but realistically 4 or 5 of them were always out of their depth on a 7,600 yard long putting contest. Even had it been level going into the singles (as it probably should have been), it's hard to see Europe getting much better than they got on the final day, possibly a point or two more maybe.

On the flip side, some of the newish guys should form the core of a really good team in two years time. Hopefully Pieters doesn't do a Colsaerts and disappear, and Fitzpatrick finds 20yds more length.

yaboya1 · 03-10-2016 09:17PM

Russman wrote: »

I don't think there's one answer to why they lost really. On one hand its sport and someone has to lose. But Clarke's selections & pairings aside, I think that some of the European players, on a course set up like Hazletine was, are simply not quite on the same level as most of that US team. On a different layout they may well be better than them, but realistically 4 or 5 of them were always out of their depth on a 7,600 yard long putting contest. Even had it been level going into the singles (as it probably should have been), it's hard to see Europe getting much better than they got on the final day, possibly a point or two more maybe.

On the flip side, some of the newish guys should form the core of a really good team in two years time. Hopefully Pieters doesn't do a Colsaerts and disappear, and Fitzpatrick finds 20yds more length.

Yeah, agree with a lot of that.
Not for a second saying Europe would have won even if they had got it back to 8-8, just making the point that the poor pairing selections on Saturday afternoon preventing them having a far better opportunity than they ended up having.

Russman · 03-10-2016 09:19PM

Don't know if it's been mentioned earlier, I haven't read all the pages, but did it seem to anyone that the greens were almost too quick ? Obviously the home team will set it to their advantage, which is fine, but it looked to me that they were just ridiculously quick compared to what you'd normally see at an event or on tv.

Nonevernomore · 03-10-2016 09:21PM

Clarke just seems fake in his interviews, I wonder what he was like in team meetings.

Russman · 03-10-2016 09:33PM

yaboya1 wrote: »

Yeah, agree with a lot of that.
Not for a second saying Europe would have won even if they had got it back to 8-8, just making the point that the poor pairing selections on Saturday afternoon preventing them having a far better opportunity than they ended up having.[/QUOTE

I wouldn't be Clarke's biggest fan, don't hate him either, but the opening session on Friday probably impacted his later selections too much and he had more than half an eye on giving guys game time before Sunday. That said, I'd have kept Kaymar and Westy on the bench on Saturday evening. Probably more so Kaymar, he had been bad in both matches Friday, Westwood had only had one match so was possibly worth a punt, but maybe at the expense of Rose who really wasn't on it at all.

I think he did make an error in seemingly guessing that Love would keep Speith and Reid at number one when he (Love) actually put them out last. Pot luck or Master stroke by Love, who knows.

alan partridge aha · 03-10-2016 09:34PM

McIlroy played well, but was beaten by by the better player on Sunday.

ligerdub · 03-10-2016 09:39PM

yaboya1 wrote: »

Don't know if this is directed at me, but I didn't criticise the wildcard pick(s). I'm saying after Westwood proved himself out of form, he shouldn't have been selected again before the singles.

Number 2 is true. Martin Kaymer had lost 2/2, while Cabrera-Bello won 1/1 and was playing well staging a fightback when the pairings had to be submitted.

By the way, I dont believe I even used the word 'if' in my entire post, so this "if my aunt had balls" stuff is irrelevant. Matches are 18 holes long, unless you win before that, which Westwood didn't and went on to lose (by the 14th on Friday). Again, not criticising his wildcard selection or the fact that he played on Friday. Just that he shouldn't have played again before Sunday having shown such poor form in the first session.

Sorry for the confusion, it wasn't aimed at you at all. I hadn't even seen your post when I posted. Apologies if you felt it was.

I mentioned it regarding the wildcard picks overall, not how he used them. There have been quite a few posts, to put it mildly, that Kaymer and Westwood shouldn't have been picked for the event at all.

The Rape of Lucretia · 03-10-2016 10:20PM

Russman wrote: »

Even had it been level going into the singles (as it probably should have been), it's hard to see Europe getting much better than they got on the final day, possibly a point or two more maybe.

Which would have been enough. Had they been level going into the singles, it would have finished 14 all. Eu would have retained the Ryder Cup. Dazzler the hero. Master strategist. Holds onto the Ryder cup with the weakest Eu team in decades. Superb man manager. Incredible attention to detail. Brilliant psychologist and handled the media war beautifully. Dealt with the Willet article smartly, firmly and quickly. Gee what Captain. etc, etc, etc.

Lads, the americans holed more long putts than us. We missed some sitters. So they won.

Edit : I stand corrected. It was worse than that, and we would have needed another point and a half. But the general point stands.

Seve OB · 03-10-2016 10:39PM

captbarnacles wrote: »

Re the Saturday pairings: Clarke was probably in a group of one who thought ww and kaymer should be played. Noone I spoke to or read of thought they should play so not hindsight

I think you are being very unfair. WW pairing was probably not as bad as everyone make out. They were all square playing 17, so had been doing well in their match. The fact is both of them made 4's on 17 that me as a 13 handicapper would of been pissed at, even from their tee shot positions. Westy had a 3 putt and Willets chip was muck. That left them needing to win 18 and Westy put himself in great position but missed a tiddler. So 2 bad holes and they lost on 18 FFS, they weren't annihilated. If Clarke had of played any other combo, they could of easily lost through 14 or 15 and people would still be calling for his blood.

There is a witch hunt on, and to be honest, from what I see, a lot of it is coming from people who already made up their mind they don't like Clarke and have no intention of doing anything other than lay the blame at his feet. Grow up. There can only be one winner, so at least the European Team had the pride amongst themselves to be gracious in defeat. Why can't you guys also!

Seve OB · 03-10-2016 10:41PM

Nonevernomore wrote: »

Clarke just seems fake in his interviews, I wonder what he was like in team meetings.

The word is, he was Fantastic.

Nonevernomore · 03-10-2016 10:43PM

I heard the opposite!

Seve OB · 03-10-2016 10:45PM

Nonevernomore wrote: »

I heard the opposite!

and you heard that from the team room?

Nonevernomore · 03-10-2016 10:50PM

Yeah, not from a player though.

Seve OB · 03-10-2016 11:04PM

Nonevernomore wrote: »

Yeah, not from a player though.

so why did you ask such a question if you already knew the answer??? :cool:

I'm sorry, but I find it hard to believe you

Rikand · 03-10-2016 11:17PM

A wild rover approaches....

Seve OB · 03-10-2016 11:22PM

Rikand wrote: »

A wild rover approaches....

haha, and already has his knuckles wrapped on another thread :rolleyes:

DiegoWorst · 04-10-2016 06:49AM

Russman wrote: »

I think he did make an error in seemingly guessing that Love would keep Speith and Reid at number one when he (Love) actually put them out last. Pot luck or Master stroke by Love, who knows.

To drive momentum, the Americans were always going to target the last fourball match on Saturday.
It was predicted DL3 would use his strongest pairing in the first match Friday morning, and the last match on Saturday. DC did likewise. Their "strong" pairing played slightly better than ours, correction, Reed played slightly better than Stenson/Rose combined.

DL3 got the bonus of LW/DW stepping all over each other on the 17th & 18th holes to lose match 2 Saturday afternoon. IMO this was the biggest blow to Europe's chances of making a comeback on Sunday.
I do believe DC got his pairings wrong on Saturday afternoon. However, you can't take it away from the Americans, they holed more putts and well deserved their victory.

Tom.D.BJJ · 04-10-2016 08:23AM

In hindsight, Thank god Poulter was injured. He would have been there instead of Pieters, and has been off form all year, and the score would have been even worse.

abff · 04-10-2016 09:00AM

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

In hindsight, Thank god Poulter was injured. He would have been there instead of Pieters, and has been off form all year, and the score would have been even worse.

But would he have been worse than Westwood?

sky88 · 04-10-2016 09:00AM

I think far too much is being made of europeans having rookies. Pieters,bello were fantastic. wood and sullivan didnt get much of a chance but did fine.

Only willet who was in bad form since the masters and fitzpatrick who was the only player on both sides who looked nervous.

LuckyGent88 · 04-10-2016 09:46AM

Just about to sit down and finally watch all the golf from the weekend and will give my full verdict after that.

FixdePitchmark · 04-10-2016 10:01AM

LuckyGent88 wrote: »

Just about to sit down and finally watch all the golf from the weekend and will give my full verdict after that.

We wont spoil outcome for you

Ryder Cup 2016

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