Dublin Marathon 2016 - Mentored Novices Thread

JackieChan · 21-09-2016 04:49PM

RasTa wrote: »

Winds supposed to be at 40k on Saturday morning too. Don't mind the rain but hate the wind

Ahhhhh just when the memories of the Frank Duffy were starting to fade!

Murph_D · 21-09-2016 05:44PM

Thewitheredowl wrote: »

Hi Murph,

Looking at my log I have done 1250km this year to date.
My max for 1 week was 77km and that was this month.

With 5 weekends left with the marathon being the 6th w/end my plan is to get two more 30k runs done.
I'm away this weekend so I'm just going to write it off and forget about it. That leaves me 4 training weekends, so next weekend and the weekend after will be the 30k runs before I ease off on the distance for the last two weekends. Was thinking on one of the 30k runs to do the middle 15k at MP. Is this of any benefit to me or would I be as well to keep it at the LSR pace that I have been doing to now - 5.30km?

For my runs during the week I was thinking on one of the days each week to run at MP just to get used to the feel of that pace. I'm open to advice though whether or not that's the right thing.

Your reasoning seems pretty good to me. Taking this week as a stepback week will give you some recovery. 20 the following week, 20-22 3 weeks out, then taper down (14, 12 or so for final 2 LRs). You could build some MP into the first of these remaining 20+ milers, maybe 10 at MP and 10 easy. Better to do on the first 20 miler as you will be reasonably rested after the stepback. Take the second 20-22 easy. As you are used to doing midweek runs at 4:45, you might get a final 10-14 @ MP into a midweek MLR two and a half weeks out from race day. That's always a confidence booster. And build a few miles at MP into the final LRs. Easy during the final week - just a few strides to keep the legs alive during deep taper.

Just a few suggestions. Keep it sensible, like you seem to have been doing.

The Muppet · 21-09-2016 06:02PM

[/B]

Pomplamousse wrote: »

Just heard that at the moment the weather forecast for Saturday morning isn't great, rain forecast for 10am, the time the half marathon is due to start. Do not want a replay of the Frank Duffy 10 mile pre-race conditions:(

JackieChan wrote: »

Ahhhhh just when the memories of the Frank Duffy were starting to fade!

Not mine they will never fade,

Can't say I'm relishing the prospect of the combination of strong wind and rain but hopefully I've learned a few lesson from my Frank Duffy experience.

scotindublin · 21-09-2016 06:51PM

Lesson 1 from the FD10....wear plasters in appropriate areas!

The Muppet wrote: »

[/B]

Not mine they will never fade,

Can't say I'm relishing the prospect of the combination of strong wind and rain but hopefully I've learned a few lesson from my Frank Duffy experience.

paddydriver · 21-09-2016 09:11PM

Get into Dealz and buy their Poncho's - fully cover you and have a hood. Only €1.49.. or €1.50 now.

Also, root around the wardrobe for old loose sports gear that doesn't fit you any more - now that we have lost loads of weight from all this running. Wear that in, under your poncho of course, and then ditch it before the race - have nice dry warm gear waiting for you afterwards.

Murph_D · 21-09-2016 09:38PM

The Muppet wrote: »

[/B]

Not mine they will never fade,

Can't say I'm relishing the prospect of the combination of strong wind and rain but hopefully I've learned a few lesson from my Frank Duffy experience.

I had a terrible F Duffy too, T, but won't be dwelling on it.

While I always like to race a HM 4-5 weeks out from the full, I will be dialling back the ambitions if conditions are similar to the 10-miler. A MP run in those conditions would be decent enough - and good to have under the belt if we have bad weather on the big day.

kin9pin · 21-09-2016 09:47PM

Sooooo....... I'm out of the half this weekend. Tried another run tonight. Felt better than Sunday, but still not right so I stopped after a mile.
Physio already booked for Friday afternoon. I can feel it improving so haven't given up hope for DCM.

Good luck to everyone racing on Saturday. I'm a size large if anyone manages to blag a spare top

Wubble Wubble · 22-09-2016 07:02AM

Sorry to hear you're out for Saturday A. Best of luck with the recovery!

paddydriver · 22-09-2016 09:18AM

kin9pin wrote: »

Sooooo....... I'm out of the half this weekend. Tried another run tonight. Felt better than Sunday, but still not right so I stopped after a mile.
Physio already booked for Friday afternoon. I can feel it improving so haven't given up hope for DCM.

Good luck to everyone racing on Saturday. I'm a size large if anyone manages to blag a spare top

Hey Kin9pin, So Sorry to hear that.. I know your pain as same happened me last year and it was end for me; I had a more serious injury though so would be hopeful you'll be back soon. If you are back in shape then let me know and happily meet up locally next week for an easy run. Best of Luck in recovery.. you'll be back strong!

kin9pin · 22-09-2016 09:59AM

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

Sorry to hear you're out for Saturday A. Best of luck with the recovery!

paddydriver wrote: »

Hey Kin9pin, So Sorry to hear that.. I know your pain as same happened me last year and it was end for me; I had a more serious injury though so would be hopeful you'll be back soon. If you are back in shape then let me know and happily meet up locally next week for an easy run. Best of Luck in recovery.. you'll be back strong!

Thanks guys.
Strangely, this morning my shin feels great so hopefully that's a good sign. Taking tomorrow off so, as much as I can with the kids, I'm going to do as little walking/driving as possible for 3 days. I've also discovered ice massage which really seems to be helping.

scotindublin · 22-09-2016 10:03AM

Sorry to hear that.....remember to keep the main thing the main thing though!

Loom after yourself and take on board what your physios says and fingers crossed you will be back on track for the DCM.

kin9pin wrote: »

Sooooo....... I'm out of the half this weekend. Tried another run tonight. Felt better than Sunday, but still not right so I stopped after a mile.
Physio already booked for Friday afternoon. I can feel it improving so haven't given up hope for DCM.

Good luck to everyone racing on Saturday. I'm a size large if anyone manages to blag a spare top

The Muppet · 22-09-2016 10:05AM

kin9pin wrote: »

Sooooo....... I'm out of the half this weekend. Tried another run tonight. Felt better than Sunday, but still not right so I stopped after a mile.
Physio already booked for Friday afternoon. I can feel it improving so haven't given up hope for DCM.

Good luck to everyone racing on Saturday. I'm a size large if anyone manages to blag a spare top

Sorry to read that but it sounds like the wise thing to do. I hope you can get back at it soon.

The Muppet · 22-09-2016 10:25AM

Murph_D wrote: »

I had a terrible F Duffy too, T, but won't be dwelling on it.

While I always like to race a HM 4-5 weeks out from the full, I will be dialling back the ambitions if conditions are similar to the 10-miler. A MP run in those conditions would be decent enough - and good to have under the belt if we have bad weather on the big day.

I know there's nothing to be gained by dwelling on it, if only the nighmares would stop I could possibly move on.:D

For my first time ever in a race I know what I'm going to try and do going in so obviously I've learned some lessons.

aquinn · 22-09-2016 11:14AM

The Muppet wrote: »

I know there's nothing to be gained by dwelling on it, if only the nighmares would stop I could possibly move on.:D

For my first time ever in a race I know what I'm going to try and do going in so obviously I've learned some lessons.

You will learn from it.

I did the DCHM in Sept 2014. I absolutely hated the race as my head wasn't in it but body felt grand. It was roasting of course.

I cycled home, foot cramped. Got to my front door and sobbed. Uncontrollably sobbed.

I went out the next day and ran, nice and gentle. I never had a fear that I couldn't complete the marathon and didn't let it get to me, once the sobbing had subsided. Didn't even think I'd have to race twice the distance in 6 weeks. I had done the training so knew it wasn't an issue.

Learnt a valuable lesson if your head isn't it in you're fcuked. Don't let your head take over.

Firedance · 22-09-2016 11:59AM

aquinn wrote: »

You will learn from it.

I did the DCHM in Sept 2014. I absolutely hated the race as my head wasn't in it but body felt grand. It was roasting of course.

I cycled home, foot cramped. Got to my front door and sobbed. Uncontrollably sobbed.

I went out the next day and ran, nice and gentle. I never had a fear that I couldn't complete the marathon and didn't let it get to me, once the sobbing had subsided. Didn't even think I'd have to race twice the distance in 6 weeks. I had done the training so knew it wasn't an issue.

Learnt a valuable lesson if your head isn't it in you're fcuked. Don't let your head take over.

Mine was Rock n Roll 2015, I think I may have cried for a few days, possibly a week...... a very wise boardsie sat me down and went through where I went wrong and showed me how to put it right for my next race, he was right and I went on to get a massive PB in my next HM.

As long as we learn from our races, both the positive and the negative, the experience is actually a valuable one. The weather is not great for Saturday but there is nothing we can do about it so we will just do what we can on the bits we can control and as aquinn as said, your head is a big part of that.

The very best of luck to you all, I'm not around (will be west jogging a 10K race in a hurricane

) to cheer you on but am dying to read all the race reports. ENJOY!!

The Black Oil · 22-09-2016 12:02PM

Posted on boards at 11:20pm last night, only after I hit post did I realise...

Maximus Alexander · 22-09-2016 12:50PM

The Black Oil wrote: »

Posted on boards at 11:20pm last night, only after I hit post did I realise...

It's okay, I'll take the heat off you. I went to bed at 01:35.

Thewitheredowl · 22-09-2016 01:16PM

Murph_D wrote: »

Your reasoning seems pretty good to me. Taking this week as a stepback week will give you some recovery. 20 the following week, 20-22 3 weeks out, then taper down (14, 12 or so for final 2 LRs). You could build some MP into the first of these remaining 20+ milers, maybe 10 at MP and 10 easy. Better to do on the first 20 miler as you will be reasonably rested after the stepback. Take the second 20-22 easy. As you are used to doing midweek runs at 4:45, you might get a final 10-14 @ MP into a midweek MLR two and a half weeks out from race day. That's always a confidence booster. And build a few miles at MP into the final LRs. Easy during the final week - just a few strides to keep the legs alive during deep taper.

Just a few suggestions. Keep it sensible, like you seem to have been doing.

Sounds good to me. Thanks for the advice

Wubble Wubble · 22-09-2016 01:26PM

+1 to DCHM 2014. I imagined I'd picked up an injury around the 7 mile mark, and stepped off to the side and tore my bib off in disgust. Over 15 minutes and much feeling sorry for myself later, I realised (a) I still had the bib attached to my top, and (b) there wasn't much wrong with me at all at all, so I got back in and finished. 1:59. 22 minutes slower than my PB. Disgrace.

I didn't enter DCHM last year, which means there's plenty of demons to be slayed this time, whatever the weather!!!!!

chrislad · 22-09-2016 01:34PM

Best of luck to all of you with the half at the weekend! I can't do it due to a family wedding but I am going to use the next few days as rest! My left leg is a bit iffy so a couple days off will be good for me!

budhistmonk · 22-09-2016 02:09PM

One for the plan gurus -
I'm following HHN2 which is supposedly "a slight step upwards in difficulty from Novice 1". I notice though, from the Hal Higdon website, that the last 5 weeks of HHN2 plan appear to be a good bit easier milage-wise to HHN1. Particularly the mid-week medium distance run (see below). Do any of you know if either plan is incorrect? I am guessing they are correct since so many people use them. Is the distance lower on HHN2 because it incorporates some Mar. Pace runs? If you're not sure if they are correct have you any opinions or thoughts on the last few weeks of HHN2 based on the rest of the plan up to then. ( http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51138/Marathon-Novice-2-Training-Program ) I just want to make sure I am not selling myself short on the run-in to the big day.

Last 5 weeks of HHN1:
14 Rest 5 m run 9 m run 5 m run Rest 14 Cross
15 Rest 5 m run 10 m run 5 m run Rest 20 Cross
16 Rest 5 m run 8 m run 4 m run Rest 12 Cross
17 Rest 4 m run 6 m run 3 m run Rest 8 Cross
18 Rest 3 m run 4 m run 2 m run Rest Rest Marathon

Last 5 weeks of HHN2:
14 Rest 5 m run 8 m run 5 m run Rest 12 Cross
15 Rest 5 m run 5 m pace 5 m run Rest 20 Cross
16 Rest 5 m run 4 m pace 5 m run Rest 12 Cross
17 Rest 4 m run 3 m run 4 m run Rest 8 Cross
18 Rest 3 m run 2 m run Rest Rest 2 m run Marathon

Antwerp · 22-09-2016 04:53PM

nop98 wrote: »

Weekly LSR Updates

Reading the LSR reports is the highlight of being your host on this thread. You are all well able to look after yourselves at this stage, running at the proper paces, following the plan, eating well, sleeping loads, and all that. It's just a matter of keeping things steady towards the big day.

First of, the sick bay.
kittyclaws: Back in the swing of things - delighted to read this. Don't rush back trying to make up for lost time. What's gone, is gone. Oh - and if you were to ask me, don't be entertaining thoughts of racing the HM. Try and run this week pain-free and by all means, run the event but at LSR pace.

tony1980: Also tentatively positive news here, which is excellent. I hope you didn't go out for any LSR...? Slowly build back, I don't want to be alarmist but you don't want any reoccurrence.

aceygray has been advised to take off two weeks - which must be a huge disappointment as you were going so well. Fingers crossed that we'll see you around soon, but you seem to have already adjusted your expectations already. Try and stay positive and do let us know how you get on...

Antwerp seems to be knocking on the infirmary's door, also a case of altering your expectations already. Good to get that done. Look after yourself

FITZA's post wins the award of the week. You are so right that getting to the start-line is hard enough as it is - but it's easy to forget that. A few novices have alreayd deferred

budhistmonk - 13 miles = 13 miles, it will never be just a stroll in the park. Really good job getting a good stretch of the course done. That little drag that is so hyped-up as "Heartbreak Hill" will not bother you on the

RasTa - same assessment

Muppet - well done sir. Glad to see you back in full swing and congrats on the 1000M.

BunnyColvin - great news, any run of that distance that has you feeling you've plenty left, is a great confindence booster. Now there'll be a replay, does this mess with your LSR two weeks time? It better not!

All or nothing - that's very good pace for a solo HM. First of all, that's a PB. Second of all, I hope your long-runs from now on in are all at proper (slow!) pace!

CFR: Wow. That's some week. Not sure if there's anything I can add.

Pomplamousse: Well done on getting through another tough week. Are you doing DCM?

Thanks NOP98, have now realised that it will be a challenge to get to DCM and if I'm lucky enough to get there that my goal is to complete it, even if it's takes 7hrs ( if any later will be in trouble as all the stewards will be gone home

Safrongirl · 22-09-2016 04:59PM

Hi All,
Have to say a little bit jealous of all doing the half on Saturday - I will be working unfortunately and didnt get my entry in on time either - my own fault .

So had my second LSR this morning - took 2 gels today as forgot my sweets and knew I had my gels in the car ( bought in bulk a few months ago )

32Kms in 3.32 which give me 6.37/km

Found it OK this morning but honestly couldnt have run another step - again its like what everyone has been saying about your head though - I had planned to go out and run 32Km and this was all my head allowed me to do - I remember so clearly last year not being able to get by 10km and thinking how will I ever run any further ! Its all in the head but still cant imagine running a further 10km on marathon day

Told my sister today I was going to do it - think she was shocked and then how will you possibly be able for it came next !

Next weeks long run is only 22kms ??? according to my plan and then 2 more weeks of 32kms ???

Antwerp · 22-09-2016 05:00PM

kin9pin wrote: »

Sooooo....... I'm out of the half this weekend. Tried another run tonight. Felt better than Sunday, but still not right so I stopped after a mile.
Physio already booked for Friday afternoon. I can feel it improving so haven't given up hope for DCM.

Good luck to everyone racing on Saturday. I'm a size large if anyone manages to blag a spare top

Ah sorry to hear that, Kin9pin but in the grand scheme of things, at least DCM is still on the radar.

And if you really want a HM before 2016 ends there is the Clontarf HM in November or Waterford AC HM and Full Marathon in December - mind you hopefully by then us Novices will be on a well deserved break

joesoap5 · 22-09-2016 05:45PM

Safrongirl wrote: »

Hi All,

Next weeks long run is only 22kms ??? according to my plan and then 2 more weeks of 32kms ???

Are you doing a 2 week taper then Safron?

Murph_D · 22-09-2016 06:12PM

budhistmonk wrote: »

One for the plan gurus -
I'm following HHN2 which is supposedly "a slight step upwards in difficulty from Novice 1". I notice though, from the Hal Higdon website, that the last 5 weeks of HHN2 plan appear to be a good bit easier milage-wise to HHN1. Particularly the mid-week medium distance run (see below). Do any of you know if either plan is incorrect? I am guessing they are correct since so many people use them. Is the distance lower on HHN2 because it incorporates some Mar. Pace runs? If you're not sure if they are correct have you any opinions or thoughts on the last few weeks of HHN2 based on the rest of the plan up to then. ( http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51138/Marathon-Novice-2-Training-Program ) I just want to make sure I am not selling myself short on the run-in to the big day.

Last 5 weeks of HHN1:
14 Rest 5 m run 9 m run 5 m run Rest 14 Cross
15 Rest 5 m run 10 m run 5 m run Rest 20 Cross
16 Rest 5 m run 8 m run 4 m run Rest 12 Cross
17 Rest 4 m run 6 m run 3 m run Rest 8 Cross
18 Rest 3 m run 4 m run 2 m run Rest Rest Marathon

Last 5 weeks of HHN2:
14 Rest 5 m run 8 m run 5 m run Rest 12 Cross
15 Rest 5 m run 5 m pace 5 m run Rest 20 Cross
16 Rest 5 m run 4 m pace 5 m run Rest 12 Cross
17 Rest 4 m run 3 m run 4 m run Rest 8 Cross
18 Rest 3 m run 2 m run Rest Rest 2 m run Marathon

It's not just the mileage - HHN2 has more mileage overall and many midweek runs are at MP. Thus the taper is a little more of a drop off than HHN1 over the last few weeks. I used pHHN2 for my debut and found it an excellent introduction to marathon training. Trust the plan, as FD would say (and so would I).

bucketybuck · 22-09-2016 06:34PM

I've been doing the HH1, is it too late to switch to HH2?

nop98 · 22-09-2016 06:47PM

kin9pin wrote: »

Sooooo....... I'm out of the half this weekend. Tried another run tonight. Felt better than Sunday, but still not right so I stopped after a mile.
Physio already booked for Friday afternoon. I can feel it improving so haven't given up hope for DCM.

Good luck to everyone racing on Saturday. I'm a size large if anyone manages to blag a spare top

Sorry to hear that kin9pin, but 'feeling better' and 'improving' are good signs and full marks for keeping your eye on the main thing.

nop98 · 22-09-2016 06:50PM

Antwerp wrote: »

Thanks NOP98, have now realised that it will be a challenge to get to DCM and if I'm lucky enough to get there that my goal is to complete it, even if it's takes 7hrs ( if any later will be in trouble as all the stewards will be gone home

What's the matter, Antwerp? I don't think you've given us a description of your symptoms yet?

nop98 · 22-09-2016 06:54PM

Safrongirl wrote: »

Hi All,
Have to say a little bit jealous of all doing the half on Saturday - I will be working unfortunately and didnt get my entry in on time either - my own fault .

So had my second LSR this morning - took 2 gels today as forgot my sweets and knew I had my gels in the car ( bought in bulk a few months ago )

32Kms in 3.32 which give me 6.37/km

Found it OK this morning but honestly couldnt have run another step - again its like what everyone has been saying about your head though - I had planned to go out and run 32Km and this was all my head allowed me to do - I remember so clearly last year not being able to get by 10km and thinking how will I ever run any further ! Its all in the head but still cant imagine running a further 10km on marathon day

Told my sister today I was going to do it - think she was shocked and then how will you possibly be able for it came next !

Next weeks long run is only 22kms ??? according to my plan and then 2 more weeks of 32kms ???

Safrongirl, well done on the 20M/32k! I totally hear you in terms of being able to run 32k and not a step further. You also know that if you had set out for 34k, you would have done that, too. Don't worry. The crowds (and the thought of the medal) will carry you.

Can you post your plans (mileage) for the next few weeks? You've done 2 20-milers already. The HHN1 plan calls for only 1, the boards plan calls for 2. I am thinking you should just fall in with the boards plan for the next couple of weeks.

Another suggestion: can you find company for one of your LSRs in a few weeks time? It will be so much easier, and you've put in plenty of solo-hours already.

Dublin Marathon 2016 - Mentored Novices Thread

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