Wrong item sent, seller wants me to pay return costs to refund!

intheclouds · 21-09-2016 09:07PM #1

I ordered an expensive pair of boots on eBay. It said the item location was London.

They seemed to take ages to arrive, I contracted the seller and turns out they were dispatched from France. I have them delivered via parcel motel.

Item shows up and they've sent wrong thing, pair of trainers.

I contact seller, no reply for days. I contact eBay and they tell me to initiate returns process on eBay. I do that and seller responds with offer of free return from within the uk followed by refund but as I'm outside the uk, they want me to pay return. To France.

I tell them I'm not responsible for their mistake and I want refund for item never sent, and if they want incorrect item, they can refund my postage. Also point out that item location said London, not France.

What are the regulations here? I'm hardly responsible for their mistake?

ED E · 22-09-2016 12:46AM

If they dont play ball open a Paypal dispute. They'll side with you and just refund it if the seller doesnt play ball.

The Wolverine · 22-09-2016 12:49AM

If you didn't use PayPal you can get your bank to do a charge back on your used card as well FYI.

intheclouds · 22-09-2016 09:06AM

I dont think I can initiate a paypal dispute because I already involved ebay in it.

I would be quite happy to return the incorrect item, but not at my own expense.

In the past Ive found both paypal and ebay to be less than helpful in disputes.

At this stage my 150 quid has been gone from my account for over 3 weeks with no sign of a refund while the returns stalemate continues.

Walter2016 · 22-09-2016 09:55AM

The fact that you used Parcel Motel is not their issue as they delivered to a UK address and offer free returns from there.

So you need to get them back to a UK address for free collecting or pay for sending from Ireland to France.

Harika · 22-09-2016 09:58AM

The Wolverine wrote: »

If you didn't use PayPal you can get your bank to do a charge back on your used card as well FYI.

As the money was send to ebay and not the seller directly, a charge back will open a world of pain. So don't do it, if you want to continue using ebay. Solve it with the help of Ebay first.

cruizer101 · 22-09-2016 10:10AM

I'm not really sure why you expect seller to cover the cost of postage from Ireland as opposed to the UK, that is where they sent the item to. This is one of the disadvantages of services like parcel motel, you can save money but put yourself more at risk is something goes wrong.

When they say they will cove postage from UK how much is that and how does it compare with cost of postage from Ireland, Royal Mail and An Post both have calculators on their sites, it may not be costing much at all.

Could you have got the item shipped to Ireland from them originally?

intheclouds · 22-09-2016 10:20AM

cruizer101 wrote: »

I'm not really sure why you expect seller to cover the cost of postage from Ireland as opposed to the UK, that is where they sent the item to. This is one of the disadvantages of services like parcel motel, you can save money but put yourself more at risk is something goes wrong.

Because its not my mistake. They claimed the item was located in the UK. Then they sent it from France. Where I got it delivered to is irrelevant imo, I could have moved house since it was delivered, I could have had it delivered to a UK address while on holidays. The point is, they sent me something I didnt order - so i do not see why I should have to pay to send it back, to a different location than they claimed it was in also.

cruizer101 wrote: »

When they say they will cove postage from UK how much is that and how does it compare with cost of postage from Ireland, Royal Mail and An Post both have calculators on their sites, it may not be costing much at all.

Its a free returns process where they print a label. Its more complex than cost alone, they actually say that their returns process does not cater for items posted through normal post but I am welcome to "try" to post it to them.

cruizer101 wrote: »

Could you have got the item shipped to Ireland from them originally?

No. But I wouldnt have bought the item if Id realised it was being shipped from France and not the UK as stated on the listing.

I actually had a problem in the past where I opened a dispute with Paypal and Paypal told me to return the faulty item for a refund. The seller wanted me to return it to China, the item location was listed as the UK. I pointed this out and Paypal told me to bin the item and issued the refund. Its misleading when an item is stated as being in one place but returns are in another.

I have asked ebay to intervene, a decision will happen in 48 hours.

intheclouds · 22-09-2016 10:25AM

Walter2016 wrote: »

The fact that you used Parcel Motel is not their issue as they delivered to a UK address and offer free returns from there.

So you need to get them back to a UK address for free collecting or pay for sending from Ireland to France.

Its irrelevant where I am.

Basically I have something I didnt order, if they want it back it should not going to come out of my pocket.

This isnt a "return" in the strictest sense, I have not yet received the item I ordered. I received something I didnt order.

If someone delivered a washing machine you didnt order to you would you be happy to pay the return costs?

They are trying to force me to pay the return costs by withholding the refund until they receive their item back.

Billydgoat · 22-09-2016 10:38AM

intheclouds wrote: »

Its irrelevant where I am.

Basically I have something I didnt order, if they want it back it should not going to come out of my pocket.

This isnt a "return" in the strictest sense, I have not yet received the item I ordered. I received something I didnt order.

If someone delivered a washing machine you didnt order to you would you be happy to pay the return costs?

They are trying to force me to pay the return costs by withholding the refund until they receive their item back.

Do Not under any circumstances open a PayPal claim. You WILL have to pay for the return if you do as per PayPal terms and conditions.

EBay have you covered here. Open a item not as described claim. The seller will have 8 days to provide you with a label or show eBay proof they have sent you the cost of return shipping to your PayPal account. If they do not, eBay will refund you and tell you to keep the item.

This covers all international returns so it does not matter where you are located or where the seller is. Its worldwide now.

If they have sent you a label, once it is shown as returned, they will refund you in full so you will get all your money back.

Do not get on to eBay about them mislocating their item location, eBay do not care.

EBay money back guarantee works if you follow the steps above. Its all automated until escalated.

intheclouds · 22-09-2016 10:41AM

Ebay have responded and agree with me that I should not bear the cost of returns for incorrect item.

They are telling the seller to either provide a free label for returns or to refund my postage. Seller has 5 days to respond.

If no response from seller I will be issued refund without the need to return the item.

Dardania · 22-09-2016 10:43AM

In fairness, you should be liable for the cost to go from Ireland to the UK, as their sales policy to you was that it was free postage to the UK. You were happy to take the sale under that scenario, and pay the cost of shipping to Ireland.

It's irrelevent where they are located - the free postage to the UK is the important point.

Are you possibly trying to get beyond my above point with the justification that they were delayed with repsonding to you, and because they sent you the wrong item? and so are looking for a goodwill gesture to overcome it?

Billydgoat · 22-09-2016 10:49AM

intheclouds wrote: »

Ebay have responded and agree with me that I should not bear the cost of returns for incorrect item.

They are telling the seller to either provide a free label for returns or to refund my postage. Seller has 5 days to respond.

If no response from seller I will be issued refund without the need to return the item.

Ah OK it has already been escalated so.

Yes that is correct. So if you mail the seller, ask them to PayPal you the money for the return as they might, out of spite, send you a uk returns label (I.e royal mail label) so ask them for the money. They will need to post the PayPal transaction number into the case if they do. Don't even mention being in Ireland. Just tell them the quote price.

Make sure when returning it that you send it back tracked. You need to do this or else they can claim they never got it. Its vital.

Once they have it back, you will be refunded the money for the shoes and the postage you paid to get then to you.

Also, something to keep in mind for future reference . Paypal have a program where they give you 15 free returns each year. I forget the name but Google it and you will see.

Never ever ever open a PayPal case first you will always have to pay the return shipping no matter what.

Billydgoat · 22-09-2016 10:53AM

Dardania wrote: »

In fairness, you should be liable for the cost to go from Ireland to the UK, as their sales policy to you was that it was free postage to the UK. You were happy to take the sale under that scenario, and pay the cost of shipping to Ireland.

It's irrelevent where they are located - the free postage to the UK is the important point.

Are you possibly trying to get beyond my above point with the justification that they were delayed with repsonding to you, and because they sent you the wrong item? and so are looking for a goodwill gesture to overcome it?

Not buyers fault they were sent the wrong item. We are all in the EU. EU law clearly states that if you buy an item and it is not as described, seller has to cover the return postage. If you do not think this is fair, take it up with your local politician. I don't think its fair but it is the law.

Until the UK leaves the EU, 'free postage to uk' bit is irrelevant and not an important point. The important point driving is, buyer received and item they did not order and the seller needs to accept responsibility for their mistake. End of.

This doesn't matter if you buy from uk, Romania, France. Its an EU wide law that many many sellers don't follow..... Until someone sues them in small claims court.

Dardania · 22-09-2016 10:59AM

Billydgoat wrote: »

Dardania wrote: »

In fairness, you should be liable for the cost to go from Ireland to the UK, as their sales policy to you was that it was free postage to the UK. You were happy to take the sale under that scenario, and pay the cost of shipping to Ireland.

It's irrelevent where they are located - the free postage to the UK is the important point.

Are you possibly trying to get beyond my above point with the justification that they were delayed with repsonding to you, and because they sent you the wrong item? and so are looking for a goodwill gesture to overcome it?

Not buyers fault they were sent the wrong item. We are all in the EU. EU law clearly states that if you buy an item and it is not as described, seller has to cover the return postage. If you do not think this is fair, take it up with your local politician. I don't think its fair but it is the law.

Until the UK leaves the EU, 'free postage to uk' bit is irrelevant and not an important point. The important point driving is, buyer received and item they did not order and the seller needs to accept responsibility for their mistake. End of.

This doesn't matter if you buy from uk, Romania, France. Its an EU wide law that many many sellers don't follow..... Until someone sues them in small claims court.

How is this possible - the contract between seller and buyer was sale to an address in the UK.

By your logic, if I get something delivered to Ireland, and find fault with it when I'm in Croatia a few days later, the seller has to cover the return postage from Croatia?

intheclouds · 22-09-2016 11:02AM

Dardania wrote: »

In fairness, you should be liable for the cost to go from Ireland to the UK, as their sales policy to you was that it was free postage to the UK. You were happy to take the sale under that scenario, and pay the cost of shipping to Ireland.

It's irrelevent where they are located - the free postage to the UK is the important point.

Are you possibly trying to get beyond my above point with the justification that they were delayed with repsonding to you, and because they sent you the wrong item? and so are looking for a goodwill gesture to overcome it?

Distance selling regulations which are EU wide dictate that seller is responsible for returns for faulty or incorrect goods.

Im not liable for any cost, its not my mistake.

Id be delighted to receive the correct item. But as it stands my order has not been completed. So why should I be out of pocket for being sent something I didnt ask for?

I genuinely cannot understand how anyone could think I was liable for cost of return.

intheclouds · 22-09-2016 11:03AM

Dardania wrote: »

How is this possible - the contract between seller and buyer was sale to an address in the UK.

By your logic, if I get something delivered to Ireland, and find fault with it when I'm in Croatia a few days later, the seller has to cover the return postage from Croatia?

Yes, its distance selling.

Your point above stands for bricks and mortar shop.

Billydgoat · 22-09-2016 11:07AM

Dardania wrote: »

How is this possible - the contract between seller and buyer was sale to an address in the UK.

By your logic, if I get something delivered to Ireland, and find fault with it when I'm in Croatia a few days later, the seller has to cover the return postage from Croatia?

The contract is void because the seller mislocated their item. This is not really an eBay issue. By law, the seller has to state their company details, item location as accurate and provide a the customer with a legal returns policy.

Yes eBay do make sellers do this. Did you hear of eBay global shipping program? Sellers post to a warehouse on the uk or USA and its forwarded to the person in whatever country. If that buyer opens an item not as described case, the seller HAS to provide them a returns label within 5 days. So seller posts to uk warehouse, then forwarded to Latvia. The buyer opensniyem not as descrived , the seller has to provide a return label from Latvia. Ridiculous I know but its how it works. A read of eBay forums has 1000s of stories of this.

EBay treat parcrlmotel the same.

The only exception by law is a private seller. But eBay does not recognise this and even they have yo issue a label. It is why so many people do not ship outside their country. Its also where there is websites with lists of freight forwarder address' to block.

Dardania · 22-09-2016 11:07AM

intheclouds wrote: »

Dardania wrote: »

In fairness, you should be liable for the cost to go from Ireland to the UK, as their sales policy to you was that it was free postage to the UK. You were happy to take the sale under that scenario, and pay the cost of shipping to Ireland.

It's irrelevent where they are located - the free postage to the UK is the important point.

Are you possibly trying to get beyond my above point with the justification that they were delayed with repsonding to you, and because they sent you the wrong item? and so are looking for a goodwill gesture to overcome it?

Distance selling regulations which are EU wide dictate that seller is responsible for returns for faulty or incorrect goods.

Im not liable for any cost, its not my mistake.

Id be delighted to receive the correct item. But as it stands my order has not been completed. So why should I be out of pocket for being sent something I didnt ask for?

I genuinely cannot understand how anyone could think I was liable for cost of return.

Because the contract between you and the seller was delivery to the UK. So by my logic, the seller is liable for the return postage from the UK

intheclouds · 22-09-2016 11:13AM

Dardania wrote: »

Because the contract between you and the seller was delivery to the UK. So by my logic, the seller is liable for the return postage from the UK

But my item was never delivered at all. I could agree with you if I were returning the actual item I bought for some reason.

Try to think of this in 2 different stages.

1: I never received the item I ordered so I want a refund.
2: I was sent something I didnt order, so they are welcome to it back, but not at my expense.

Dardania · 22-09-2016 11:14AM

Billydgoat wrote: »

Dardania wrote: »

How is this possible - the contract between seller and buyer was sale to an address in the UK.

By your logic, if I get something delivered to Ireland, and find fault with it when I'm in Croatia a few days later, the seller has to cover the return postage from Croatia?

The contract is void because the seller mislocated their item. This is not really an eBay issue. By law, the seller has to state their company details, item location as accurate and provide a the customer with a legal returns policy.

Yes eBay do make sellers do this. Did you hear of eBay global shipping program? Sellers post to a warehouse on the uk or USA and its forwarded to the person in whatever country. If that buyer opens an item not as described case, the seller HAS to provide them a returns label within 5 days. So seller posts to uk warehouse, then forwarded to Latvia. The buyer opensniyem not as descrived , the seller has to provide a return label from Latvia. Ridiculous I know but its how it works. A read of eBay forums has 1000s of stories of this.

EBay treat parcrlmotel the same.

The only exception by law is a private seller. But eBay does not recognise this and even they have yo issue a label. It is why so many people do not ship outside their country. Its also where there is websites with lists of freight forwarder address' to block.

Never heard of the ebay sellers programme, but interesting alright about the legal dynamic here...

Billydgoat · 22-09-2016 11:15AM

Dardania wrote: »

Because the contract between you and the seller was delivery to the UK. So by my logic, the seller is liable for the return postage from the UK

Your missing the point. Point being the contract is void as the seller didn't inform the seller beforehand it was a French company and coming from France.

intheclouds · 22-09-2016 11:17AM

Billydgoat wrote: »

Your missing the point. Point being the contract is void as the seller didn't inform the seller beforehand it was a French company and coming from France.

Surely the contract is also void because I received something I didnt order at all?

Dardania · 22-09-2016 11:17AM

Billydgoat wrote: »

Dardania wrote: »

Because the contract between you and the seller was delivery to the UK. So by my logic, the seller is liable for the return postage from the UK

Your missing the point. Point being the contract is void as the seller didn't inform the seller beforehand it was a French company and coming from France.

Okay I see your point now. So say if the the seller was actually in the UK, and the buyer had used parcel motel to get from UK to Ireland - would the buyer be liable for the UK to Ireland postage or the seller?

Billydgoat · 22-09-2016 11:23AM

Dardania wrote: »

Okay I see your point now. So say if the the seller was actually in the UK, and the buyer had used parcel motel to get from UK to Ireland - would the buyer be liable for the UK to Ireland postage or the seller?

Yes eBay unfortunately will make the seller be responsible. Read eBay's forums its full of this. Also there global shipping programme is the same. Once an item is not as described on eBay, your screwed.

The EU want a level playing field with online shopping so it doesn't matter which EU state you live in. EU law states this is only for EU countries, eBay take it one step further and offer it worldwide.

Dardania · 22-09-2016 11:25AM

Billydgoat wrote: »

Dardania wrote: »

Okay I see your point now. So say if the the seller was actually in the UK, and the buyer had used parcel motel to get from UK to Ireland - would the buyer be liable for the UK to Ireland postage or the seller?

Yes eBay unfortunately will make the seller be responsible. Read eBay's forums its full of this. Also there global shipping programme is the same. Once an item is not as described on eBay, your screwed.

The EU want a level playing field with online shopping so it doesn't matter which EU state you live in. EU law states this is only for EU countries, eBay take it one step further and offer it worldwide.

learned something here today

I'm sure sellers are having to price this risk in...

Billydgoat · 22-09-2016 11:30AM

Dardania wrote: »

learned something here today I'm sure sellers are having to price this risk in...

EBay go one step above to keep buyers happy. Its a huge risk selling outside Ireland or uk on eBay, due to their policies. If you quiz them, they refer you yo the terms and conditions you agreed too.

Another gripe of mine with eBay is. EU law states if you offer shipping at 2.99 and next day at 9.99, you only have to refund the 2.99, even if you upgraded to next day.

But eBay make you refund the whole lot!! Hence why so many eBay sellers have next day at crazy prices.

EBay global shipping thing is where a seller in the uk for example has item for sale. You buy it in Ireland. They ship it cheap to the uk warehouse who consolidates all packages and then ships them in bulk to Ireland . but you pay a lot more for it. So seller might only pay 2.99 to ship it to eBay warehouse, but I would have paid around 9.99. EBay keeps the difference.

This is for sellers who only want to ship to the uk. The programme works, until someone files item not as described. Then the trouble starts big time.

intheclouds · 22-09-2016 11:33AM

Dardania wrote: »

Okay I see your point now. So say if the the seller was actually in the UK, and the buyer had used parcel motel to get from UK to Ireland - would the buyer be liable for the UK to Ireland postage or the seller?

To be honest with you, the sellers attitude was such that I would have refused to pay returns to anywhere.

They have not been decent to deal with.

Ive just googled the company name and there are a lot of bad reviews of their customer service - this obviously isnt apparent from their ebay shop.

witnessmenow · 22-09-2016 11:36AM

Lets say the following happens:

I sell a blue card to someone in Ireland for E1 including delivery (I just stick a stamp on it)
I accidently post the person a red card
Buyer flies to lets say to a remote area in Finland
Buyer Complains to ebay that they got a red card instead of a blue one

That I would be responsible for return shipping from Finland!? That doesn't make any sense.

intheclouds · 22-09-2016 11:37AM

witnessmenow wrote: »

Lets say the following happens:
I sell a blue card to someone in Ireland for E1 including delivery (I just stick a stamp on it)

I accidently post the person a red card

Buyer flies to lets say to a remote area in Finland

Buyer Complains to ebay that they got a red card instead of a blue one

That I would be responsible for return shipping from Finland!? That doesn't make any sense.

You think buyer would be responsible for your mistake?

You missed the bit where you said you were posting it from the UK but you posted it from France.

Billydgoat · 22-09-2016 11:48AM

witnessmenow wrote: »

Lets say the following happens:
I sell a blue card to someone in Ireland for E1 including delivery (I just stick a stamp on it)

I accidently post the person a red card

Buyer flies to lets say to a remote area in Finland

Buyer Complains to ebay that they got a red card instead of a blue one

That I would be responsible for return shipping from Finland!? That doesn't make any sense.

If there eBay account and registered address is Finland, then yes you are correct.

Again I'll say, read the eBay forums. 1000s of stories. EBay are vague about it, but once an it not received case is open , you will see for yourself.

Wrong item sent, seller wants me to pay return costs to refund!

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