Wrong item sent, seller wants me to pay return costs to refund!

intheclouds

I ordered an expensive pair of boots on eBay. It said the item location was London.

They seemed to take ages to arrive, I contracted the seller and turns out they were dispatched from France. I have them delivered via parcel motel.

Item shows up and they've sent wrong thing, pair of trainers.

I contact seller, no reply for days. I contact eBay and they tell me to initiate returns process on eBay. I do that and seller responds with offer of free return from within the uk followed by refund but as I'm outside the uk, they want me to pay return. To France.

I tell them I'm not responsible for their mistake and I want refund for item never sent, and if they want incorrect item, they can refund my postage. Also point out that item location said London, not France.

What are the regulations here? I'm hardly responsible for their mistake?

ED E

If they dont play ball open a Paypal dispute. They'll side with you and just refund it if the seller doesnt play ball.

The Wolverine

If you didn't use PayPal you can get your bank to do a charge back on your used card as well FYI.

intheclouds

I dont think I can initiate a paypal dispute because I already involved ebay in it.

I would be quite happy to return the incorrect item, but not at my own expense.

In the past Ive found both paypal and ebay to be less than helpful in disputes.

At this stage my 150 quid has been gone from my account for over 3 weeks with no sign of a refund while the returns stalemate continues.

Walter2016

The fact that you used Parcel Motel is not their issue as they delivered to a UK address and offer free returns from there.

So you need to get them back to a UK address for free collecting or pay for sending from Ireland to France.

Harika

The Wolverine wrote: »

If you didn't use PayPal you can get your bank to do a charge back on your used card as well FYI.

As the money was send to ebay and not the seller directly, a charge back will open a world of pain. So don't do it, if you want to continue using ebay. Solve it with the help of Ebay first.

cruizer101

I'm not really sure why you expect seller to cover the cost of postage from Ireland as opposed to the UK, that is where they sent the item to. This is one of the disadvantages of services like parcel motel, you can save money but put yourself more at risk is something goes wrong.

When they say they will cove postage from UK how much is that and how does it compare with cost of postage from Ireland, Royal Mail and An Post both have calculators on their sites, it may not be costing much at all.

Could you have got the item shipped to Ireland from them originally?

intheclouds

cruizer101 wrote: »

I'm not really sure why you expect seller to cover the cost of postage from Ireland as opposed to the UK, that is where they sent the item to. This is one of the disadvantages of services like parcel motel, you can save money but put yourself more at risk is something goes wrong.

Because its not my mistake. They claimed the item was located in the UK. Then they sent it from France. Where I got it delivered to is irrelevant imo, I could have moved house since it was delivered, I could have had it delivered to a UK address while on holidays. The point is, they sent me something I didnt order - so i do not see why I should have to pay to send it back, to a different location than they claimed it was in also.

cruizer101 wrote: »

When they say they will cove postage from UK how much is that and how does it compare with cost of postage from Ireland, Royal Mail and An Post both have calculators on their sites, it may not be costing much at all.

Its a free returns process where they print a label. Its more complex than cost alone, they actually say that their returns process does not cater for items posted through normal post but I am welcome to "try" to post it to them.

cruizer101 wrote: »

Could you have got the item shipped to Ireland from them originally?

No. But I wouldnt have bought the item if Id realised it was being shipped from France and not the UK as stated on the listing.

I actually had a problem in the past where I opened a dispute with Paypal and Paypal told me to return the faulty item for a refund. The seller wanted me to return it to China, the item location was listed as the UK. I pointed this out and Paypal told me to bin the item and issued the refund. Its misleading when an item is stated as being in one place but returns are in another.

I have asked ebay to intervene, a decision will happen in 48 hours.

intheclouds

Walter2016 wrote: »

The fact that you used Parcel Motel is not their issue as they delivered to a UK address and offer free returns from there.

So you need to get them back to a UK address for free collecting or pay for sending from Ireland to France.

Its irrelevant where I am.

Basically I have something I didnt order, if they want it back it should not going to come out of my pocket.

This isnt a "return" in the strictest sense, I have not yet received the item I ordered. I received something I didnt order.

If someone delivered a washing machine you didnt order to you would you be happy to pay the return costs?

They are trying to force me to pay the return costs by withholding the refund until they receive their item back.

Billydgoat

intheclouds wrote: »

Its irrelevant where I am.

Basically I have something I didnt order, if they want it back it should not going to come out of my pocket.

This isnt a "return" in the strictest sense, I have not yet received the item I ordered. I received something I didnt order.

If someone delivered a washing machine you didnt order to you would you be happy to pay the return costs?

They are trying to force me to pay the return costs by withholding the refund until they receive their item back.

Do Not under any circumstances open a PayPal claim. You WILL have to pay for the return if you do as per PayPal terms and conditions.

EBay have you covered here. Open a item not as described claim. The seller will have 8 days to provide you with a label or show eBay proof they have sent you the cost of return shipping to your PayPal account. If they do not, eBay will refund you and tell you to keep the item.

This covers all international returns so it does not matter where you are located or where the seller is. Its worldwide now.

If they have sent you a label, once it is shown as returned, they will refund you in full so you will get all your money back.

Do not get on to eBay about them mislocating their item location, eBay do not care.

EBay money back guarantee works if you follow the steps above. Its all automated until escalated.

intheclouds

Ebay have responded and agree with me that I should not bear the cost of returns for incorrect item.

They are telling the seller to either provide a free label for returns or to refund my postage. Seller has 5 days to respond.

If no response from seller I will be issued refund without the need to return the item.

Dardania

In fairness, you should be liable for the cost to go from Ireland to the UK, as their sales policy to you was that it was free postage to the UK. You were happy to take the sale under that scenario, and pay the cost of shipping to Ireland.

It's irrelevent where they are located - the free postage to the UK is the important point.

Are you possibly trying to get beyond my above point with the justification that they were delayed with repsonding to you, and because they sent you the wrong item? and so are looking for a goodwill gesture to overcome it?

Billydgoat

intheclouds wrote: »

Ebay have responded and agree with me that I should not bear the cost of returns for incorrect item.

They are telling the seller to either provide a free label for returns or to refund my postage. Seller has 5 days to respond.

If no response from seller I will be issued refund without the need to return the item.

Ah OK it has already been escalated so.

Yes that is correct. So if you mail the seller, ask them to PayPal you the money for the return as they might, out of spite, send you a uk returns label (I.e royal mail label) so ask them for the money. They will need to post the PayPal transaction number into the case if they do. Don't even mention being in Ireland. Just tell them the quote price.

Make sure when returning it that you send it back tracked. You need to do this or else they can claim they never got it. Its vital.

Once they have it back, you will be refunded the money for the shoes and the postage you paid to get then to you.

Also, something to keep in mind for future reference . Paypal have a program where they give you 15 free returns each year. I forget the name but Google it and you will see.

Never ever ever open a PayPal case first you will always have to pay the return shipping no matter what.

Billydgoat

Dardania wrote: »

In fairness, you should be liable for the cost to go from Ireland to the UK, as their sales policy to you was that it was free postage to the UK. You were happy to take the sale under that scenario, and pay the cost of shipping to Ireland.

It's irrelevent where they are located - the free postage to the UK is the important point.

Are you possibly trying to get beyond my above point with the justification that they were delayed with repsonding to you, and because they sent you the wrong item? and so are looking for a goodwill gesture to overcome it?

Not buyers fault they were sent the wrong item. We are all in the EU. EU law clearly states that if you buy an item and it is not as described, seller has to cover the return postage. If you do not think this is fair, take it up with your local politician. I don't think its fair but it is the law.

Until the UK leaves the EU, 'free postage to uk' bit is irrelevant and not an important point. The important point driving is, buyer received and item they did not order and the seller needs to accept responsibility for their mistake. End of.


This doesn't matter if you buy from uk, Romania, France. Its an EU wide law that many many sellers don't follow..... Until someone sues them in small claims court.

Dardania

Billydgoat wrote: »

Dardania wrote: »

In fairness, you should be liable for the cost to go from Ireland to the UK, as their sales policy to you was that it was free postage to the UK. You were happy to take the sale under that scenario, and pay the cost of shipping to Ireland.

It's irrelevent where they are located - the free postage to the UK is the important point.

Are you possibly trying to get beyond my above point with the justification that they were delayed with repsonding to you, and because they sent you the wrong item? and so are looking for a goodwill gesture to overcome it?

Not buyers fault they were sent the wrong item. We are all in the EU. EU law clearly states that if you buy an item and it is not as described, seller has to cover the return postage. If you do not think this is fair, take it up with your local politician. I don't think its fair but it is the law.

Until the UK leaves the EU, 'free postage to uk' bit is irrelevant and not an important point. The important point driving is, buyer received and item they did not order and the seller needs to accept responsibility for their mistake. End of.


This doesn't matter if you buy from uk, Romania, France. Its an EU wide law that many many sellers don't follow..... Until someone sues them in small claims court.

How is this possible - the contract between seller and buyer was sale to an address in the UK.

By your logic, if I get something delivered to Ireland, and find fault with it when I'm in Croatia a few days later, the seller has to cover the return postage from Croatia?

intheclouds

Dardania wrote: »

In fairness, you should be liable for the cost to go from Ireland to the UK, as their sales policy to you was that it was free postage to the UK. You were happy to take the sale under that scenario, and pay the cost of shipping to Ireland.

It's irrelevent where they are located - the free postage to the UK is the important point.

Are you possibly trying to get beyond my above point with the justification that they were delayed with repsonding to you, and because they sent you the wrong item? and so are looking for a goodwill gesture to overcome it?

Distance selling regulations which are EU wide dictate that seller is responsible for returns for faulty or incorrect goods.

Im not liable for any cost, its not my mistake.

Id be delighted to receive the correct item. But as it stands my order has not been completed. So why should I be out of pocket for being sent something I didnt ask for?

I genuinely cannot understand how anyone could think I was liable for cost of return.

intheclouds

Dardania wrote: »

How is this possible - the contract between seller and buyer was sale to an address in the UK.

By your logic, if I get something delivered to Ireland, and find fault with it when I'm in Croatia a few days later, the seller has to cover the return postage from Croatia?

Yes, its distance selling.

Your point above stands for bricks and mortar shop.

Billydgoat

Dardania wrote: »

How is this possible - the contract between seller and buyer was sale to an address in the UK.

By your logic, if I get something delivered to Ireland, and find fault with it when I'm in Croatia a few days later, the seller has to cover the return postage from Croatia?

The contract is void because the seller mislocated their item. This is not really an eBay issue. By law, the seller has to state their company details, item location as accurate and provide a the customer with a legal returns policy.

Yes eBay do make sellers do this. Did you hear of eBay global shipping program? Sellers post to a warehouse on the uk or USA and its forwarded to the person in whatever country. If that buyer opens an item not as described case, the seller HAS to provide them a returns label within 5 days. So seller posts to uk warehouse, then forwarded to Latvia. The buyer opensniyem not as descrived , the seller has to provide a return label from Latvia. Ridiculous I know but its how it works. A read of eBay forums has 1000s of stories of this.

EBay treat parcrlmotel the same.

The only exception by law is a private seller. But eBay does not recognise this and even they have yo issue a label. It is why so many people do not ship outside their country. Its also where there is websites with lists of freight forwarder address' to block.

Dardania

intheclouds wrote: »

Dardania wrote: »

In fairness, you should be liable for the cost to go from Ireland to the UK, as their sales policy to you was that it was free postage to the UK. You were happy to take the sale under that scenario, and pay the cost of shipping to Ireland.

It's irrelevent where they are located - the free postage to the UK is the important point.

Are you possibly trying to get beyond my above point with the justification that they were delayed with repsonding to you, and because they sent you the wrong item? and so are looking for a goodwill gesture to overcome it?

Distance selling regulations which are EU wide dictate that seller is responsible for returns for faulty or incorrect goods.

Im not liable for any cost, its not my mistake.

Id be delighted to receive the correct item. But as it stands my order has not been completed. So why should I be out of pocket for being sent something I didnt ask for?

I genuinely cannot understand how anyone could think I was liable for cost of return.

Because the contract between you and the seller was delivery to the UK. So by my logic, the seller is liable for the return postage from the UK

intheclouds

Dardania wrote: »

Because the contract between you and the seller was delivery to the UK. So by my logic, the seller is liable for the return postage from the UK

But my item was never delivered at all. I could agree with you if I were returning the actual item I bought for some reason.

Try to think of this in 2 different stages.

1: I never received the item I ordered so I want a refund.
2: I was sent something I didnt order, so they are welcome to it back, but not at my expense.

Dardania

Billydgoat wrote: »

Dardania wrote: »

How is this possible - the contract between seller and buyer was sale to an address in the UK.

By your logic, if I get something delivered to Ireland, and find fault with it when I'm in Croatia a few days later, the seller has to cover the return postage from Croatia?

The contract is void because the seller mislocated their item. This is not really an eBay issue. By law, the seller has to state their company details, item location as accurate and provide a the customer with a legal returns policy.

Yes eBay do make sellers do this. Did you hear of eBay global shipping program? Sellers post to a warehouse on the uk or USA and its forwarded to the person in whatever country. If that buyer opens an item not as described case, the seller HAS to provide them a returns label within 5 days. So seller posts to uk warehouse, then forwarded to Latvia. The buyer opensniyem not as descrived , the seller has to provide a return label from Latvia. Ridiculous I know but its how it works. A read of eBay forums has 1000s of stories of this.

EBay treat parcrlmotel the same.

The only exception by law is a private seller. But eBay does not recognise this and even they have yo issue a label. It is why so many people do not ship outside their country. Its also where there is websites with lists of freight forwarder address' to block.

Never heard of the ebay sellers programme, but interesting alright about the legal dynamic here...

Billydgoat

Dardania wrote: »

Because the contract between you and the seller was delivery to the UK. So by my logic, the seller is liable for the return postage from the UK

Your missing the point. Point being the contract is void as the seller didn't inform the seller beforehand it was a French company and coming from France.

intheclouds

Billydgoat wrote: »

Your missing the point. Point being the contract is void as the seller didn't inform the seller beforehand it was a French company and coming from France.

Surely the contract is also void because I received something I didnt order at all?

Dardania

Billydgoat wrote: »

Dardania wrote: »

Because the contract between you and the seller was delivery to the UK. So by my logic, the seller is liable for the return postage from the UK

Your missing the point. Point being the contract is void as the seller didn't inform the seller beforehand it was a French company and coming from France.

Okay I see your point now. So say if the the seller was actually in the UK, and the buyer had used parcel motel to get from UK to Ireland - would the buyer be liable for the UK to Ireland postage or the seller?

Billydgoat

Dardania wrote: »

Okay I see your point now. So say if the the seller was actually in the UK, and the buyer had used parcel motel to get from UK to Ireland - would the buyer be liable for the UK to Ireland postage or the seller?

Yes eBay unfortunately will make the seller be responsible. Read eBay's forums its full of this. Also there global shipping programme is the same. Once an item is not as described on eBay, your screwed.

The EU want a level playing field with online shopping so it doesn't matter which EU state you live in. EU law states this is only for EU countries, eBay take it one step further and offer it worldwide.

Dardania

Billydgoat wrote: »

Dardania wrote: »

Okay I see your point now. So say if the the seller was actually in the UK, and the buyer had used parcel motel to get from UK to Ireland - would the buyer be liable for the UK to Ireland postage or the seller?

Yes eBay unfortunately will make the seller be responsible. Read eBay's forums its full of this. Also there global shipping programme is the same. Once an item is not as described on eBay, your screwed.

The EU want a level playing field with online shopping so it doesn't matter which EU state you live in. EU law states this is only for EU countries, eBay take it one step further and offer it worldwide.

learned something here today I'm sure sellers are having to price this risk in...

Billydgoat

Dardania wrote: »

learned something here today I'm sure sellers are having to price this risk in...

EBay go one step above to keep buyers happy. Its a huge risk selling outside Ireland or uk on eBay, due to their policies. If you quiz them, they refer you yo the terms and conditions you agreed too.

Another gripe of mine with eBay is. EU law states if you offer shipping at 2.99 and next day at 9.99, you only have to refund the 2.99, even if you upgraded to next day.

But eBay make you refund the whole lot!! Hence why so many eBay sellers have next day at crazy prices.

EBay global shipping thing is where a seller in the uk for example has item for sale. You buy it in Ireland. They ship it cheap to the uk warehouse who consolidates all packages and then ships them in bulk to Ireland . but you pay a lot more for it. So seller might only pay 2.99 to ship it to eBay warehouse, but I would have paid around 9.99. EBay keeps the difference.

This is for sellers who only want to ship to the uk. The programme works, until someone files item not as described. Then the trouble starts big time.

intheclouds

Dardania wrote: »

Okay I see your point now. So say if the the seller was actually in the UK, and the buyer had used parcel motel to get from UK to Ireland - would the buyer be liable for the UK to Ireland postage or the seller?

To be honest with you, the sellers attitude was such that I would have refused to pay returns to anywhere.

They have not been decent to deal with.

Ive just googled the company name and there are a lot of bad reviews of their customer service - this obviously isnt apparent from their ebay shop.

witnessmenow

Lets say the following happens:

• I sell a blue card to someone in Ireland for E1 including delivery (I just stick a stamp on it)
• I accidently post the person a red card
• Buyer flies to lets say to a remote area in Finland
• Buyer Complains to ebay that they got a red card instead of a blue one

That I would be responsible for return shipping from Finland!? That doesn't make any sense.

intheclouds

witnessmenow wrote: »

Lets say the following happens:

• I sell a blue card to someone in Ireland for E1 including delivery (I just stick a stamp on it)
• I accidently post the person a red card
• Buyer flies to lets say to a remote area in Finland
• Buyer Complains to ebay that they got a red card instead of a blue one

That I would be responsible for return shipping from Finland!? That doesn't make any sense.

You think buyer would be responsible for your mistake?

You missed the bit where you said you were posting it from the UK but you posted it from France.

Billydgoat

witnessmenow wrote: »

Lets say the following happens:

• I sell a blue card to someone in Ireland for E1 including delivery (I just stick a stamp on it)
• I accidently post the person a red card
• Buyer flies to lets say to a remote area in Finland
• Buyer Complains to ebay that they got a red card instead of a blue one

That I would be responsible for return shipping from Finland!? That doesn't make any sense.

If there eBay account and registered address is Finland, then yes you are correct.

Again I'll say, read the eBay forums. 1000s of stories. EBay are vague about it, but once an it not received case is open , you will see for yourself.

witnessmenow

intheclouds wrote: »

You think buyer would be responsible for your mistake?

You missed the bit where you said you were posting it from the UK but you posted it from France.

I think its reasonably that if I want the item returned that I should provide free return postage from the same place I posted it. Where does it end? What if buyer moves outside EU should I still be liable?

I dont sell anything on ebay, but I think offering free return postage from the UK when it was posted to the UK is all the seller should have to offer. It seems like thats not what Ebays policy is, which seems like just another reason why sellers are more and more avoiding ebay.

That is a separate issue, incorrect listing info, that has nothing to do with the issue in the title.

witnessmenow

Billydgoat wrote: »

If there eBay account and registered address is Finland, then yes you are correct.

Again I'll say, read the eBay forums. 1000s of stories. EBay are vague about it, but once an it not received case is open , you will see for yourself.

But a seller cant reject an offer to buy based on account location, just where the account wants the item posted to.

Crazy policy, ebay is hyper buyer friendly, so much so I dont know why sellers even bother with it anymore. I know i wouldnt sell anything on it

intheclouds

witnessmenow wrote: »

I think its reasonably that if I want the item returned that I should provide free return postage from the same place I posted it. Where does it end? What if buyer moves outside EU should Is till be liable?

It ends within the EU as its covered by EU distance selling regulations.

witnessmenow wrote: »

That is a separate issue, incorrect listing info, that has nothing to do with the issue in the title.

No - I disagree, I would have expected to return it to a UK address, a French address is more costly for me to return to. In fact - ebay took issue with this part of it specifically.

Billydgoat

eBay are VERY vague on it - until you get an "INR Claim". Then the sh hits the fan. But it was confirmed by a mod on the forums.

The problem is EU Regulations are in place but there isn't any agency (like Trading standards) to complain to here.

Its vital on eBay to read EVERYTHING BEFORE SELLING ON IT. eBay's Global shipping programme is automatically turned on to newbies on eBay. I dont know why as with no selling experience it shouldn't be.

Here is 2 examples that happened to me:

Buyer bought item using eBay GSP from me. I ship to the UK Derbyshire address. This is the only address provided to me. I ship to it. 2 weeks later, buyer who turns out to be from Australia, says "Item not as described" (It was). Opens case. I have 8 days to reply - after this eBay emails me to say I have 5 days to provide the buyer with a label or postage, or they keep item. I have to pay for the item to come back to me from Australia.

I then ship to UK/Ireland only. Buyer buys item from me, address is to Heathrow Airport (Some industrial estate).I should be ok ye? NO! 3 weeks later, buyer says "Item not as described". They are in KENYA. I have to send them a label or they keep item, within 5 days. I let them keep it. On top of this, if I try fight it, Ill end up with "defect" if I don't keep the buyer happy

Now on the other hand, on my website - both of these customers would have to pay to return the item to me as they are not in the EU. If they were in the EU and they paid "€20+€5 shipping and I sent them the wrong item. I have to pay for the return shipping back to me (where ever in the EU they live) and then give them back €20+€5. This is EU law that many sellers ignore, like I said until Trading standards gets involved.

This happened 100s of times to me and other sellers. Phone eBay. Lovely Irish call center staff state "OMG you don't have to pay return shipping, but Ill transfer you to the appeals department, who are in Manilla". Get transferred to get the usual "This is the cost of doing business, you are a seller you should know this, you are not giving your buyer a good experience". Quote EU Regulations to them, they say "You agreed to our Terms and Conditions when you signed up, even though they change every week you still agree".

So on eBay it DOES NOT MATTER where in the world you are. Many many sellers get stung with this and new sellers do not know how to handle it.

You can see yourself in the OP's thread, eBay have already taken the buyers side. So rightly or wrongly, it is what it is.

EU Regulations state that once you are in the EU you are covered for item not as described. Many Many Many sellers do not comply including big UK brands. In the UK You file a report with trading standards who sort it asap. Not sure here if there is any such agency.

ohnonotgmail

what is stop them sending you a postage paid return label from the UK to france?

intheclouds

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

what is stop them sending you a postage paid return label from the UK to france?

That is what they offered but as I am in ROI it doesnt work for me.

Billydgoat

Whats the to stop the seller sending back an empty box with a tracking number? If they did this, eBay would refund the buyer in full and the seller would be out of pocket. So it is in no ones benefit for the seller to do that as the buyer could scam them (not implying the buyer will do this at all). If a seller wants to be arkward, so can a buyer.

The buyer would need to escalate it as the buyer was not informed that it was a French company and also was not informed the returns address was in France. The buyer bought the item thinking it was in the UK. As the correct information was not provided to the buyer at the time of sale, so there is no contract as such.

In eBay's playground, you play by eBays rules - simple as that.

Walter2016

intheclouds wrote: »

That is what they offered but as I am in ROI it doesnt work for me.

sorry, but that is the drawback to Parcel Motel.

You circumvented their delivery offerign by using Parcel Motel to divert it to a third party address that was not provided on your order.


You seem to be searching for someone to agree with your thinking, but unfortunately you are incorrect.

That the person listed that it was delivered from the UK is a mute point once they can show that returning from the address delivered to is available. Rememebr, as you ahve said, they are in the EU and therefore there is no hindrance for them to trade from any part of the EU.

But once they can show that they are willing to collect from the address they delivered to they comply fully with distance selling regulations.

If the boots weigh under 2kg and size for the packet is a combined length, height and depth of 900mm and no individual dimension can exceed 600mm, cost will be €11.75 via an post packet rate.

intheclouds

Walter2016 wrote: »

You seem to be searching for someone to agree with your thinking, but unfortunately you are incorrect.

Nope, Ebay already agrees with me. Theyre the only people who matter in this case!

intheclouds

Just an update.

Seller did not respond to ebay instruction to either provide free returns label or pay postage costs so I have been refunded in full without the need to return the wrong item.

Seems madness to me that the company didnt just pay for the return. The incorrect item has a higher value than the cost of return postage AND they have left me a disgruntled customer who will leave them bad feedback when they could have cost themselves less and left me happy.