2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

B0jangles · 18-09-2016 03:06PM

Hillary Clinton is perceived as dishonest largely due to an unrelenting 25 year campaign to destroy her credibility, a campaign which has signally failed to produce any concrete evidence of malicious wrong-doing.

Donald Trump lies openly, continuously and incessantly. In one 67 word statement last Friday he managed to finally stop lying about Barack Obama's birthplace and immediately switch to lying about who started the lie in the first place.

That's some seriously efficient lying.

Edit: Potential VP Mike Pence really admires how Dick Cheney fulfilled the role of VP in GW Bush's administration and sees him as a role model for how a VP ought to be.

Yep Dick "Halliburton" Cheney.

https://twitter.com/SopanDeb/status/777497648198782977/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Black Swan · 18-09-2016 03:16PM

RobertKK wrote: »

New LA Times poll in a two horse race.

The most noticeable thing from the poll is if one goes and looks at the graphs, Clinton has been continuously losing support to Trump.

I assume you were observing the LA Times/USC Dornsife poll? This is a new tracking poll by some researchers at Dornsife/USC on behalf of the LA Times that varies daily, and is very different than other polls in terms of its sampling strategies, weighted averaging, and other methodologies. For example, they do not take a fresh sample of the voter population during each sampling frame as other national polls do, rather they go back to the 3,000 that they originally drew; i.e., each daily tracking sample is a sample of the original sample. If you observe the graph that USC provides, you will see that all the percentages fall within the grey area or the confidence interval, suggesting that caution should be exercised when reading the results. USC states: "Note: Shaded gray area indicates the race is too close to call;" i.e. poll "noise" due mostly to random variability. When daily percentages go outside the grey area, then they may be worth noticing. This poll is also weighted which would affect the percentages shown, but I have not taken time to review their modeling algorithm. It will be interesting to see what this poll does against the other national polling organisations up through 8 November 2016 national elections.

oscarBravo · 18-09-2016 03:44PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Hopefully both are challenged on lies.

After all Hillary has worse honesty ratings...

Seriously? Who are you trying to fool with that sort of outright fabrication? I hope it's just yourself, because everyone who isn't blinded by irrational hatred of Hillary Clinton is already aware of the objective and indisputable fact that Trump is vastly more dishonest than Clinton.

Call Me Jimmy · 18-09-2016 04:06PM

B0jangles wrote: »

Hillary Clinton is perceived as dishonest largely due to an unrelenting 25 year campaign to destroy her credibility, a campaign which has signally failed to produce any concrete evidence of malicious wrong-doing.

Donald Trump lies openly, continuously and incessantly. In one 67 word statement last Friday he managed to finally stop lying about Barack Obama's birthplace and immediately switch to lying about who started the lie in the first place.

That's some seriously efficient lying.

Edit: Potential VP Mike Pence really admires how Dick Cheney fulfilled the role of VP in GW Bush's administration and sees him as a role model for how a VP ought to be.

Yep Dick "Halliburton" Cheney.

https://twitter.com/SopanDeb/status/777497648198782977/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

It's not a perception of dishonesty with Hillary, she is dishonest. Are you saying you trust the things she says to be true? Donald Trump is an anomaly and I completely understand people wanting anyone but him, but lets no go nuts. It's almost as if supporters of hillary have supported her BECAUSE of her establishment clout, in that it is more of a guarantee to beat Trump. That is at least the position I'd be in if I was voting.

Suryavarman · 18-09-2016 04:42PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Clinton is open to gaffes as well, the 'basket of deplorables' was awful campaigning.
Attacking the person you are fighting is expected, but attacking the voters is just plain stupid.

That's completely irrelevant. We're talking about debates here, not stump speeches. Clinton is probably the best debater in the entire race apart from maybe Ted Cruz.

RobertKK wrote: »

Hopefully both are challenged on lies.

After all Hillary has worse honesty ratings...

But that's not because Hillary tells lies. It's because voters are idiots. Clinton is the most honest candidate of this election cycle.

who-lies-more-a-comparison.jpg?w=906

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

It's not a perception of dishonesty with Hillary, she is dishonest. Are you saying you trust the things she says to be true? Donald Trump is an anomaly and I completely understand people wanting anyone but him, but lets no go nuts. It's almost as if supporters of hillary have supported her BECAUSE of her establishment clout, in that it is more of a guarantee to beat Trump. That is at least the position I'd be in if I was voting.

She isn't dishonest. The facts show her to be honest. The facts show Trump to be one of, if not the most dishonest person to ever run for America's top office.

AbusesToilets · 18-09-2016 05:18PM

Suryavarman wrote: »

That's completely irrelevant. We're talking about debates here, not stump speeches. Clinton is probably the best debater in the entire race apart from maybe Ted Cruz.

But that's not because Hillary tells lies. It's because voters are idiots. Clinton is the most honest candidate of this election cycle.

She isn't dishonest. The facts show her to be honest. The facts show Trump to be one of, if not the most dishonest person to ever run for America's top office.

Except when being questioned by the FBI of course.

Overheal · 18-09-2016 05:31PM

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Except when being questioned by the FBI of course.

Let's put that whole issue into perspective:

List of things people think Clinton is lying about: 1

List of things Trump is categorically lying about: several hundred.

AbusesToilets · 18-09-2016 06:07PM

Overheal wrote: »

Let's put that whole issue into perspective:

List of things people think Clinton is lying about: 1

List of things Trump is categorically lying about: several hundred.

Yea, I mean perjuring yourself when under investigation for serious violations of the law pertaining to intelligence handling is no big deal.

Suryavarman · 18-09-2016 06:18PM

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Yea, I mean perjuring yourself when under investigation for serious violations of the law pertaining to intelligence handling is no big deal.

She didn't perjure herself.

K-9 · 18-09-2016 06:23PM

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

It's not a perception of dishonesty with Hillary, she is dishonest. Are you saying you trust the things she says to be true? Donald Trump is an anomaly and I completely understand people wanting anyone but him, but lets no go nuts. It's almost as if supporters of hillary have supported her BECAUSE of her establishment clout, in that it is more of a guarantee to beat Trump. That is at least the position I'd be in if I was voting.

When people ask could it be any worse under Trump than Hillary my answer is yes, it could be considerably worse.

I wouldn't trust Trump in a situation like today with a claimed ISIS attack. Hillary would be cold and calculated whereas Trump would spout verbal diarrhea and get trolled on Twitter. Trump is a dream president for ISIS because he'd make George W. look statesmanlike.

AbusesToilets · 18-09-2016 06:25PM

Suryavarman wrote: »

She didn't perjure herself.

Survey says...No

http://www.factcheck.org/2016/07/revisiting-clinton-and-classified-information/

http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2016/07/14/hillary-clinton-emails-congress-fact-check-jake-tapper-origwx-fy.cnn

Overheal · 18-09-2016 06:27PM

Have you examined Trumps behavior under oath? You should..

Pro Hoc Vice · 18-09-2016 06:28PM

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Survey says...No

http://www.factcheck.org/2016/07/revisiting-clinton-and-classified-information/

http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2016/07/14/hillary-clinton-emails-congress-fact-check-jake-tapper-origwx-fy.cnn

"But does that constitute perjury? Not necessarily"

From your own posts. Funny you state something as a fact and support it with a link that does not agree with your own stated fact.

AbusesToilets · 18-09-2016 06:35PM

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

"But does that constitute perjury? Not necessarily"

From your own posts. Funny you state something as a fact and support it with a link that does not agree with your own stated fact.

Sure, no doubt Hilary accidentally lied under oath. Repeatedly.

Amerika · 18-09-2016 06:41PM

B0jangles wrote: »

Thing is, that kind of trick only really works against multiple opponents at once; you make a snide remark/insult, and while they are reacting you move on to the next target. One-on-one with a very prepared opponent who is not going to lose their cool no matter what you say and it just falls flat.

Also the audience at the debates is silent and Trump only seems to thrive in a situation when he can hear the crowd's reaction and build up their response with a series of increasingly extreme statements. I think he'll really struggle to build any momentum in a situation where he's completely deprived of positive feedback.

Hopefully the debate moderators will remember the widespread condemnation of Matt Lauer's laughably weak moderation and actually challenge him when he tells outright lies.

Outrage because Lauer wasn't biased enough against Trump? Yes, media moderators need to follow CNN's lead that they need to revert to hand-to-hand combat against Trump. Sadly, the tactic will probably work.

Pro Hoc Vice · 18-09-2016 06:43PM

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Sure, no doubt Hilary accidentally lied under oath. Repeatedly.

I have no idea but you claimed as a matter of fact she did so and too back up your claim linked to a source that did not say that. If you think she did fine but those investigating her do not as a matter of fact agree. I believe Trump is a rapist but as he has never been found guilty of that crime then I can not say as a matter of fact that he is a wife rapist.

AbusesToilets · 18-09-2016 06:48PM

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

I have no idea but you claimed as a matter of fact she did so and too back up your claim linked to a source that did not say that. If you think she did fine but those investigating her do not as a matter of fact agree. I believe Trump is a rapist but as he has never been found guilty of that crime then I can not say as a matter of fact that he is a wife rapist.

It's a not question of thinking she lied.

She did, there is video evidence of her doing so. There is confirmation by Comey.

The only area of doubt is whether it was intentional or not. If you think Clinton lied by accident, I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you.

Pro Hoc Vice · 18-09-2016 06:52PM

AbusesToilets wrote: »

It's a not question of thinking she lied.

She did, there is video evidence of her doing so. There is confirmation by Comey.

The only area of doubt is whether it was intentional or not. If you think Clinton lied by accident, I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you.

My understanding of the event she did not intentionally lie. If she had and it could be proven I would think a whole truck load of prosecutors would be lined up to prosecute her.

Do you think Trump raped his wife or did she lie under oath that he did. Funny one of them telling lies one under oath!

AbusesToilets · 18-09-2016 07:02PM

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

My understanding of the event she did not intentionally lie. If she had and it could be proven I would think a whole truck load of prosecutors would be lined up to prosecute her.

Do you think Trump raped his wife or did she lie under oath that he did. Funny one of them telling lies one under oath!

I'm not talking about Trump, he is irrelevant to this subject. Clinton broke the law and lied about it under oath, which directly ties into the public perception of her being dishonest.

Suryavarman · 18-09-2016 07:03PM

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Survey says...No

http://www.factcheck.org/2016/07/revisiting-clinton-and-classified-information/

http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2016/07/14/hillary-clinton-emails-congress-fact-check-jake-tapper-origwx-fy.cnn

So she's been found guilty of perjury in a court of law she has?

18-09-2016 07:04PM

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I'm not talking about Trump, he is irrelevant to this subject. Clinton broke the law and lied about it under oath, which directly ties into the public perception of her being dishonest.

Ahh perception.. Because public perception = Fact

AbusesToilets · 18-09-2016 07:07PM

Suryavarman wrote: »

So she's been found guilty of perjury in a court of law she has?

She lied under oath, but that's not important, right?

Pro Hoc Vice · 18-09-2016 07:10PM

AbusesToilets wrote: »

She lied under oath, but that's not important, right?

Trump raped his wife but you don't think that matters! We can all play stupid games.

AbusesToilets · 18-09-2016 07:17PM

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

Trump raped his wife but you don't think that matters! We can all play stupid games.

The issue posted was the perception of Clinton as being dishonest and posters expressing incredulity at such. I posted evidence to show clear cut occasions of her lying.

Why you persist in bringing up rape allegations against Trump is a mystery.

Suryavarman · 18-09-2016 07:18PM

AbusesToilets wrote: »

She lied under oath, but that's not important, right?

Do you have any proof of that? Even the two links you provided earlier don't back you up on this. For someone to tell a lie they need to know what they are saying is untrue. There is no evidence that Clinton did that.

Do you have anything productive to add to this thread? I think I speak for everyone when I say that your irrational hatred of Clinton is getting a bit boring. You could at least take it in new directions instead of bringing up the same thing time and again and being proven wrong.

AbusesToilets · 18-09-2016 07:23PM

Suryavarman wrote: »

Do you have any proof of that? Even the two links you provided earlier don't back you up on this. For someone to tell a lie they need to know what they are saying is untrue. There is no evidence that Clinton did that.

No evidence, are you having a laugh? Does the Director of the FBI admitting she lied not count as truth in your book? Or the video of her giving said testimony?

I have no irrational hatred of her. It is founded on her well documented actions, most recently her handling of classified materials.

Actions which you studiously avoided answering questions about previously I might add.

Do you have anything productive to add to this thread? I think I speak for everyone when I say that your irrational hatred of Clinton is getting a bit boring. You could at least take it in new directions instead of bringing up the same thing time and again and being proven wrong.

Did Clinton and her staff transmit classified materials on an unsecure network?

Did Clinton allow people without clearances to view said classified materials?

I await you response to those questions with evidence of me being incorrect.

Pro Hoc Vice · 18-09-2016 07:23PM

AbusesToilets wrote: »

The issue posted was the perception of Clinton as being dishonest and posters expressing incredulity at such. I posted evidence to show clear cut occasions of her lying.

Why you persist in bringing up rape allegations against Trump is a mystery.

Goes to his honesty! How anyone can accuse Clinton of telling lies and totally ignore the elephant in the room. Any independent look at each says Trump is a consummate liar.

I did not realise it's a Clinton only room has she won the election?

I had to reread the thread heading "2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2" are we not taking about both in the race or is it just Clinton.

Pro Hoc Vice · 18-09-2016 07:26PM

AbusesToilets wrote: »

No evidence, are you having a laugh? Does the Director of the FBI admitting she lied not count as truth in your book? Or the video of her giving said testimony?

I have no irrational hatred of her. It is founded on her well documented actions, most recently her handling of classified materials.

Actions which you studiously avoided answering questions about previously I might add.

Did Clinton and her staff transmit classified materials on an unsecure network?

Did Clinton allow people without clearances to view said classified materials?

I await you response to those questions with evidence of me being incorrect.

Well we know with Trump he won't do it he will just give his buddy Putin clearance.

AbusesToilets · 18-09-2016 07:26PM

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

Goes to his honesty! How anyone can accuse Clinton of telling lies and totally ignore the elephant in the room. Any independent look at each says Trump is a consummate liar.

I did not realise it's a Clinton only room has she won the election?

I had to reread the thread heading "2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2" are we not taking about both in the race or is it just Clinton.

I don't believe I have ever stated that I believe Trump to be anything other than a disgrace.

Pro Hoc Vice · 18-09-2016 07:29PM

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I don't believe I have ever stated that I believe Trump to be anything other than a disgrace.

Well we agree on that! I don't think the same of Clinton.

2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

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