Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Note in OP, 13/9

caviardreams · 18-09-2016 03:30PM

eagle eye wrote: »

No sign of Mkhitaryan today, was he injured?

Pretty sure he was. Went for an MRI last week iirc.

RasTa · 18-09-2016 03:32PM

caviardreams wrote: »

Pretty sure he was. Went for an MRI last week iirc.

Yeah out for 10 days after City, he is another who hasn't got off to a great start so we might see him on Wednesday.

gosplan · 18-09-2016 03:32PM

Just play a central three of...

Fell - Pogba
----Mata

Or

Fell - Herrera
---Pogba

Then two wingers and Zlatan up front.

Not perfect but people in their correct positions at least. You might not beat City but you won't lose to Watford.

PhlegmyMoses · 18-09-2016 03:33PM

adox wrote: »

Haha What?:pac:

****ing auto correct. :pac:

Rayne Wooney · 18-09-2016 03:34PM

We knew what type of player Pogba was before we paid 90 million for him

One of the two in a midfield 3 with little responsibilities, he is a 90 million pound paper weight if we use him in a 4231 beside Fellaini.

Can we just play players in proper positions and see how that works out? Is that going to make us much worse than losing comprehensively 3 times in a week?

#15 · 18-09-2016 03:40PM

TheDoc wrote: »

Louis Van Gaal pretty much let his reputation turn into parody by entertaining Rooney.

Lol, that's not true. There were lots of other things that Van Gaal did to make a fool of himself.
He mishandled Rooney, but he mishandled pretty much everything he touched.

Richard Hillman · 18-09-2016 03:40PM

Leicester are going to go to OT next week with a chip on their shoulder and not burdened by possession. If Pogba is going to go on a repeat of his City performance, Leicester will pick united off. Rooney will spend his game chasing back and end up playing as a Quarterback playing sideways football. Perfect for Leicester.

StringerBell · 18-09-2016 03:42PM

Great, could you give me a quick weather forecast too? I'm off on a stag next weekend and hoping to get a bit of decent weather

Kirby · 18-09-2016 03:45PM

StringerBell wrote: »

Great, could you give me a quick weather forecast too? I'm off on a stag next weekend and hoping to get a bit of decent weather

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeUrIA64ZOI

Adamocovic · 18-09-2016 03:46PM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Leicester are going to go to OT next week with a chip on their shoulder and not burdened by possession. If Pogba is going to go on a repeat of his City performance, Leicester will pick united off. Rooney will spend his game chasing back and end up playing as a Quarterback playing sideways football. Perfect for Leicester.

But Quarterbacks make forward passes :pac:

brinty · 18-09-2016 03:48PM

Adamocovic wrote:

But Quarterbacks make forward passes

Only on third downs when their running backs haven't made sufficient yards

Pro. F · 18-09-2016 04:17PM

brinty wrote: »

Only on third downs when their running backs haven't made sufficient yards

What is this, the 1960s?

54and56 · 18-09-2016 04:29PM

nullzero wrote: »

Jose must be running out of excuses at this stage, 3-1 to Watford is pathetic by any standards, and to have been comprehensively outplayed for the bulk of the game leaves no room for excuses.

Continue like this and we'll be lucky to achieve a top half finish and Jose could be collecting his P45 before Christmas.

Rooney's race is run at this stage, has had a love hate relationship with the fans but has usually produced the goods, now he's beyond saving and his wages alone are incentive to sell him in January.

^^^ This 100%

I genuinely don't understand why Mourinho was given the job. He decided Kevin De Bruyne wasn't worth holding onto, he created a poisonous atmosphere at Chelsea (the disgraceful way Eva Carneiro was treated being a low point) and he managed to turn PL champions into utter dross.

His reward? The Man U job. You couldn't make it up.

Sir Bobby Charlton didn't want him anywhere near the club but was over ruled.

He's persisting with Rooney when he shouldn't, he's placing a lot of faith in a 35 year old striker who still knows how to score but contributed little else and he's playing the worlds most expensive player out of position.

Will he still be manager at Xmas? I don't think so.

StringerBell · 18-09-2016 04:33PM

Pro. F · 18-09-2016 04:47PM

I wasn't too worried about the last two games - one was just after an international break and the other was with a lot of changes - but today is a real worry. So many things going wrong against very ordinary opposition.

The back four were the biggest problem for me. They were so jittery, in possession and under high balls. Smalling and Bailly are both weak at passing, but if you put Blind in there you'd have to think the high balls would have been even more of a problem. (Edit:) And just to be clear, I don't think Smalling and Bailly, even with their relatively weak passing, should be expected to be having this much trouble in possession. It's like the rest of the team, they are underperforming. (/edit)

The defensive organisation of the midfield seemed to be very hit and miss as well. Pogba and Fellaini did okay building a platform of possession. Pogba still isn't contributing enough simple passes for me, but it wasn't so bad. The CBs were more of a problem in that regard imo. Pogba shoots from far out too often and Fellaini gave away too many easy frees/penalties in the last 10 minutes or so.

Martial was cat. Hopefully that knock isn't too serious. Rashford didn't hold onto the ball enough, but that can and should be accommodated if we want a striker/winger. Even if Martial had played better, I think two striker/wingers is too much in a 4231.

Rooney was the best of the front four in the first half, but that won't have stopped him being blamed for everything. He absolutely tanked at the beginning of the second half and I was surprised he wasn't subbed. But then Mourinho only subbed on attackers for defenders, so that was understandable, and then Rooney copped on anyway.

Ibra had a mixed bag. Didn't hold the ball up particularly well but he got shots off in the box and created the goal as well, so I wouldn't be complaining about him either.

The performance from the team overall is miles from good enough and it's a concern that so many different things are going wrong. Mourinho's style has been very different to LVG's, but seeing this team where every player looks off the pace to some extent is very reminiscent.

Adamocovic · 18-09-2016 05:28PM

RobbingBandit wrote: »

How different a team can we expect on Wednesday.

Surely with it being a cup game against Northampton well see quite a few changed and given a chance.

Should be a lot of changes to the team that started today.

18-09-2016 05:34PM

Watford's first win against United in 30 years. 2002 since a Jose team last suffered three successive defeats. We somehow keep finding these shíte records to smash every season as normal now.

On paper, and going by individual players, we have a good midfield. In reality though and as a unit, it's not there. While I don't think that one player and tactical change is going to send the team on an unbeaten streak, I do lament Jose's refusal so far to tinker around with the MF personnel at his disposal in the hope of getting the best out of what's available to him.

Despite Fellaini playing well so far this season, a midfield two of he and Pogba is clearly not going to be enough in most games. That contract extension for Carrick is making no sense so far. Herrera can't get into the team even though he impressed in the derby and was one of the better (read: least worse) players against Feyenoord. Morgan Schneiderlin is all but a non-entity.

I really think the team could do with one more of those players alongside Fellaini and Pogba playing in a three. Ideally Herrera, someone with that grit and determination, but also the ability to pick a pass or advance an attack in the final third. Even score a goal every few games. The same can be said for Pogba. However, our MF isn't going to get many chances to be creative when two of them are using most of their energy to constantly secure and maintain possession.

Defence has been poor for the last few games, but the MF is getting overran and/or bypassed far too easily and that is the first failure of the team's defense. That would be somewhat excusable if the team were getting 3-4 goals on the counter, but our counter-attack is barely there and is currently lacking in pace and decisiveness in quick situations.

Anyway, today was a worry. Watford scored two good goals in play (even if Martial did get fouled for the first) and rightfully got a penalty for their third goal (Bailly got turned inside-out and back again in the build-up to that). A deserved win for Watford unfortunately. After a promising but false-dawn start to the season, it is now clear that this United side are not title-contenders yet and there's a lot of progress to be made, both on the pitch and with the manager.

StringerBell · 18-09-2016 05:36PM

May aswell give Carrick his first game, I'd take Pogba out, or actually, no I'd keep him in, and put Herrera in too in a midfield 3 with Carrick at the base though it is probably asking for trouble given the likely big fight that will be put up to the team by Northampton and also if he is done with Carrick then just put Morgan in there and get him up to speed. I'd start Memphis and Rashford along with Mata. In defence I want to see TFM get some game time, I would also like to see Tuanzebe. Darmian to get more minutes under his belt and hopefully return to the first team sooner rather then later. I think its his gas tank that Mourinho isn't a fan of.

I don't care if we lose, I just want to see players get minutes because they are going to be needed over the course of the season.

Nalz · 18-09-2016 05:37PM

Pro. F wrote: »

I wasn't too worried about the last two games - one was just after an international break and the other was with a lot of changes - but today is a real worry. So many things going wrong against very ordinary opposition.

The back four were the biggest problem for me. They were so jittery, in possession and under high balls. Smalling and Bailly are both weak at passing, but if you put Blind in there you'd have to think the high balls would have been even more of a problem. (Edit:) And just to be clear, I don't think Smalling and Bailly, even with their relatively weak passing, should be expected to be having this much trouble in possession. It's like the rest of the team, they are underperforming. (/edit)

The defensive organisation of the midfield seemed to be very hit and miss as well. Pogba and Fellaini did okay building a platform of possession. Pogba still isn't contributing enough simple passes for me, but it wasn't so bad. The CBs were more of a problem in that regard imo. Pogba shoots from far out too often and Fellaini gave away too many easy frees/penalties in the last 10 minutes or so.

Martial was cat. Hopefully that knock isn't too serious. Rashford didn't hold onto the ball enough, but that can and should be accommodated if we want a striker/winger. Even if Martial had played better, I think two striker/wingers is too much in a 4231.

Rooney was the best of the front four in the first half, but that won't have stopped him being blamed for everything. He absolutely tanked at the beginning of the second half and I was surprised he wasn't subbed. But then Mourinho only subbed on attackers for defenders, so that was understandable, and then Rooney copped on anyway.

Ibra had a mixed bag. Didn't hold the ball up particularly well but he got shots off in the box and created the goal as well, so I wouldn't be complaining about him either.

The performance from the team overall is miles from good enough and it's a concern that so many different things are going wrong. Mourinho's style has been very different to LVG's, but seeing this team where every player looks off the pace to some extent is very reminiscent.

Saying Rooney was the best of our front four isn't saying much by any stretch, plus I don't. See how he was to be honest. We're talking tiny insignificant margins at this stage and it reads to me like a weak attempt to defend him re a recent argument about how good Rooney has been for club and country. Just how I see it.

I agree 100℅ re Pogba, Ibra, Bailly, Martial and Fellaini. Fellaini went form 8/10 to nearly 6 /10 within the last 10-15 minutes.

RasTa · 18-09-2016 05:37PM

Not sure who was worse today, us or Dublin. Looking forward to the day of sport and what an anti-climax.

Anyway Rooney has to be dropped for the next PL game.

beno619 · 18-09-2016 05:44PM

Headshot wrote: »

Scholes made a good point about him after the game. Mentioned that Fell just breaks up the play brings nothing else. He wont dictate the game etc

Fell and Pogba partnership will never work in the long term, Pogba needs someone beside him that can control the temp and few nice passes to the attack. Someone like Kross

Pogba and Kroos sounds terrible and still unbalanced.

jpboard1 · 18-09-2016 05:51PM

Mourinho has some task on his hands. United really are muck. Problem with spending all that money is, it cuts the honeymoon period very short. Looks like the chequebook will be out again in January.

bangkok · 18-09-2016 05:52PM

beno619 wrote: »

Pogba and Kroos sounds terrible and still unbalanced.

im not sure if you are joking or not??

Kroos would be ideal for us, we are very poor in possession.

just think there, mourinho will never have us playing the football city are currently playing or dare i say it, the football liverpool played away at cheslea friday night, just not his style

jpboard1 · 18-09-2016 05:55PM

bangkok wrote: »

beno619 wrote: »

Pogba and Kroos sounds terrible and still unbalanced.

im not sure if you are joking or not??

Kroos would be ideal for us, we are very poor in possession.

just think there, mourinho will never have us playing the football city are currently playing or dare i say it, the football liverpool played away at cheslea friday night, just not his style

How about dropping maya deeper to try and hold on to it a bit better and work on distribution?

Pro. F · 18-09-2016 06:00PM

Nalz wrote: »

Saying Rooney was the best of our front four isn't saying much by any stretch, plus I don't. See how he was to be honest. We're talking tiny insignificant margins at this stage...

Not insignificant at all. As I saw it, in the first half, Rooney was miles better than Martial and a fair bit better than Rashford. With Ibra it was closer.

Nalz wrote: »

...and it reads to me like a weak attempt to defend him re a recent argument about how good Rooney has been for club and country. Just how I see it.

Your argument looks to me like a poorly constructed effort to scapegoat Rooney for team wide failings.

Iago · 18-09-2016 06:09PM

Liam O wrote: »

Can you not see him in both pictures?

He's being given the run around because beside Pogba he's basically a lone midfielder as Pogba is very tactically naive. The 2 players capable of playing the deep role are over 30 and Mourinho doesn't fancy one of them. Fellaini can't keep being asked to cover both sides and the middle without anyone else there, he gets dragged to one side and it leaves gaping hole in the middle.

Really missed Blind today, he covers a lot of those gaps.

Exactly that, Pogba was at fault for two goals today. Overall he's been disappointing so far, but it's early days and he's in a new team/new formation so it's going to take time. He doesn't seem to be playing a "position" right now but that means he seems regularly out of position. For their second goal though, he wasn't out of position, he just switched off. Fellaini went in to try and cover and that left an acre behind him.

Having both Rooney & Pogba who essentially seem to have free roles just isn't working, there are many other problems (passing across the team was beyond dire today for example) but that's a big part of it.

wintear · 18-09-2016 06:13PM

Could Mourinho be letting Rooney play himself out of the club?

Nalz · 18-09-2016 06:13PM

Pro. F wrote: »

Not insignificant at all. As I saw it, in the first half, Rooney was miles better than Martial and a fair bit better than Rashford. With Ibra it was closer.

Your argument looks to me like a poorly constructed effort to scapegoat Rooney for team wide failings.

Tit for tat so yeah?

I wonder what the wider audience think

beno619 · 18-09-2016 06:13PM

bangkok wrote: »

im not sure if you are joking or not??

Kroos would be ideal for us, we are very poor in possession.

just think there, mourinho will never have us playing the football city are currently playing or dare i say it, the football liverpool played away at cheslea friday night, just not his style

No Joke.

Pogba & Kroos in a 2 man midfield would have us looking even more porous than we already do.

Kroos is **** defensively and Pogba isn't that great imo.

Your comment about City & Pool is a tad hyperbolic.

Manutd_4life · 18-09-2016 06:19PM

Even our loaned players are having a nightmare on the pitch......Januzaj red card

Sad day today

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Note in OP, 13/9

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