Anyone managed to blow the main house fuse ?

0lddog · 16-09-2016 2:11pm #1

A decent heat pump and fast charging going on at the same time must be pushing into max input territory

Anyone have a main house fuse blow & if so what did ESB Networks say ?

KCross · 16-09-2016 2:28pm

What make/model heatpump do you have?
What EV do you have? Is it a 6.6kw Leaf?
Was it during the day and you had a whole load of other things running as well.... oven, kettle etc?

I have a 6.6kw leaf and a heat pump. They are both running at the same time and no issues. The HP should only be drawing 2-3kW's so adding the two together... the main fuse should have no issue with it.

cros13 · 16-09-2016 2:36pm

KCross wrote: »

I have a 6.6kw leaf and a heat pump.

On a 32A chargepoint?

avon barksdale · 16-09-2016 2:40pm

Is the Esb fuse lower than your consumer unit?

KCross · 16-09-2016 2:45pm

cros13 wrote: »

On a 32A chargepoint?

Yes

0lddog · 16-09-2016 8:15pm

IIRC The max current that may be drawn through a standard domestic meter is around 50A so 32A by itself wont be a problem.

Keep in mind that cookers, immersions ( and even come types of shower ) as well as heatpumps can be significant power consumers

@KCross I dont have an EV at present - I rely on some really 'leccy hungry stuff ( e.g. I have a heat pump that likes to come out at night and suck blood to the tune of 25A ) and could see that if I had an EV then on a bad day night things could get really out of hand - thus my original question.

gctest50 · 16-09-2016 8:26pm

You can upgrade your supply if you're a bit concerned :

https://esbnetworks.ie/existing-connection/increasing-decreasing-supply/domestic-user

16-09-2016 10:20pm

If you blow that fuse the ESB will make you upgrade your supply, I got the impression from talking to them for an hour that this really annoys them.

After explaining that this will become more of an issue in the future as they bury their heads in the sand hoping 3.3 Kw EVSE's will be their get out of jail cards for some time, it fell on deaf ears.

The way I look at it is this, if I pay for an electricity supply that was suitable for the last 40 odd years (no I'm not 40 but the house is :-) and it no longer meets my needs then the ESB should upgrade it to meet my demands, a paying customer , or am I wrong ?

Yes 3.3 Kw will suffice for most people most of the time but there are times you need to charge faster and you should not be prevented from charging faster.

That's like saying you can use the hob to boil the spuds but you can't use the Oven to cook the roast !!!

BoatMad · 16-09-2016 10:27pm

0lddog wrote: »

A decent heat pump and fast charging going on at the same time must be pushing into max input territory

Anyone have a main house fuse blow & if so what did ESB Networks say ?

You can be charged for a callout to replace the main fuse. Repeated failures cause them to start shouting at you. !!

KCross · 17-09-2016 8:53am

0lddog wrote: »

IIRC The max current that may be drawn through a standard domestic meter is around 50A so 32A by itself wont be a problem.

Keep in mind that cookers, immersions ( and even come types of shower ) as well as heatpumps can be significant power consumers

@KCross I dont have an EV at present - I rely on some really 'leccy hungry stuff ( e.g. I have a heat pump that likes to come out at night and suck blood to the tune of 25A ) and could see that if I had an EV then on a bad day night things could get really out of hand - thus my original question.

Ah, I misinterpreted your post. I thought you had the issue. You're thinking ahead!

I think the main fuse on my distribution unit is 63A.

If you were to turn on all the hungry items together then yes you may hit the limit but it would be unlikely I'd say unless they all drew max current at the same time. The HP's, IIRC, draw large current on startup only, so once its running it drops back. You would also do the majority of your car charging at night so it would only be competing with the HP and not all the other appliances (dryer, kettle, oven, showers being the biggest ones).

Maybe I'll eat my words during the winter as this will be my first winter with the EV. The car takes 2-4hrs to charge and I've it timed to finish at 8am. I time the dryer to come on at midnight and that takes max 2hrs so there is no overlap there and the HP comes on/off as it sees fit so basically the car and the HP will be the only things on at the same time and I know they dont trip anything when running together.

gctest50 wrote: »

You can upgrade your supply if you're a bit concerned :

https://esbnetworks.ie/existing-connection/increasing-decreasing-supply/domestic-user

I did this. When I built the house and I was filling in the ESB forms for the connection I was told by my HP installer to request the upgraded connection. Its actually written on the form that if you have a HP to tick the upgraded connection.

I'm not sure what difference it makes because they didnt change out the transformer, I'm sharing it with a few other houses. My sparky did put in a higher spec "tails" from the meter to the distribution box but other than that I'm not sure what I actually got for the upgraded connection.... it cost a few hundred extra at the time to get the upgraded connection but that was for a new connection so it might be more for someone retrospectively asking for it.

BoatMad wrote: »

You can be charged for a callout to replace the main fuse. Repeated failures cause them to start shouting at you. !!

Are you referring to the main fuse in the distribution board in the house? Why would you need to call them out for that? Couldnt anyone replace that or at least a local sparky?

Or is there an ESB owned fuse somewhere... on the transformer or something?

mickdw · 17-09-2016 9:00am

KCross wrote: »

Ah, I misinterpreted your post. I thought you had the issue. You're thinking ahead!

I think the main fuse on my distribution unit is 63A.

If you were to turn on all the hungry items together then yes you may hit the limit but it would be unlikely I'd say unless they all drew max current at the same time. The HP's, IIRC, draw large current on startup only, so once its running it drops back. You would also do the majority of your car charging at night so it would only be competing with the HP and not all the other appliances (dryer, kettle, oven, showers being the biggest ones).

Maybe I'll eat my words during the winter as this will be my first winter with the EV. The car takes 2-4hrs to charge and I've it timed to finish at 8am. I time the dryer to come on at midnight and that takes max 2hrs so there is no overlap there and the HP comes on/off as it sees fit so basically the car and the HP will be the only things on at the same time and I know they dont trip anything when running together.

I did this. When I built the house and I was filling in the ESB forms for the connection I was told by my HP installer to request the upgraded connection. Its actually written on the form that if you have a HP to tick the upgraded connection.

I'm not sure what difference it makes because they didnt change out the transformer, I'm sharing it with a few other houses. My sparky did put in a higher spec "tails" from the meter to the distribution box but other than that I'm not sure what I actually got for the upgraded connection.... it cost a few hundred extra at the time to get the upgraded connection but that was for a new connection so it might be more for someone retrospectively asking for it.

Are you referring to the main fuse in the distribution board in the house? Why would you need to call them out for that? Couldnt anyone replace that or at least a local sparky?

Or is there an ESB owned fuse somewhere... on the transformer or something?

I believe there is no cabling alterations required for the basic upgrade, it's just a stronger main fuse.

BoatMad · 18-09-2016 12:18am

mickdw wrote: »

I believe there is no cabling alterations required for the basic upgrade, it's just a stronger main fuse.

And you give the esb 1174 euros for that pleasure

BoatMad · 18-09-2016 12:19am

KCross wrote: »

Ah, I misinterpreted your post. I thought you had the issue. You're thinking ahead!

I think the main fuse on my distribution unit is 63A.

If you were to turn on all the hungry items together then yes you may hit the limit but it would be unlikely I'd say unless they all drew max current at the same time. The HP's, IIRC, draw large current on startup only, so once its running it drops back. You would also do the majority of your car charging at night so it would only be competing with the HP and not all the other appliances (dryer, kettle, oven, showers being the biggest ones).

Maybe I'll eat my words during the winter as this will be my first winter with the EV. The car takes 2-4hrs to charge and I've it timed to finish at 8am. I time the dryer to come on at midnight and that takes max 2hrs so there is no overlap there and the HP comes on/off as it sees fit so basically the car and the HP will be the only things on at the same time and I know they dont trip anything when running together.

I did this. When I built the house and I was filling in the ESB forms for the connection I was told by my HP installer to request the upgraded connection. Its actually written on the form that if you have a HP to tick the upgraded connection.

I'm not sure what difference it makes because they didnt change out the transformer, I'm sharing it with a few other houses. My sparky did put in a higher spec "tails" from the meter to the distribution box but other than that I'm not sure what I actually got for the upgraded connection.... it cost a few hundred extra at the time to get the upgraded connection but that was for a new connection so it might be more for someone retrospectively asking for it.

Are you referring to the main fuse in the distribution board in the house? Why would you need to call them out for that? Couldnt anyone replace that or at least a local sparky?

Or is there an ESB owned fuse somewhere... on the transformer or something?

Yes there is a esb fuse before the meter, it had an esb seal attached

mickdw · 18-09-2016 1:19am

BoatMad wrote: »

And you give the esb 1174 euros for that pleasure

Looking into it recently for a client on a rural new build house, I believe it was only a few hundred extra if chosen from the outset and about 700 as an upgrade later.

BoatMad · 18-09-2016 1:38am

mickdw wrote: »

Looking into it recently for a client on a rural new build house, I believe it was only a few hundred extra if chosen from the outset and about 700 as an upgrade later.

Not according to the recent " network charges" document from esb networks.

It's 700 from new and 1174 as an upgrade

KCross · 18-09-2016 10:26am

Deedsie wrote: »

I'm in the early stages of a new build now...

Electrical stuff is like Astro Physics to me unfortunately. I wanted to install an Electric vehicle charging point. I was hoping it could be a 6.6 kw fast charging point. Is this possible? I took a leaf for a test drive recently, the Nissan sales guy said that Electric Ireland would not install a 6.6kw charging point in a domestic house? They would only install a 3.3 kw charging point.

Is there any way around that?

After reading this now I am also anxious to have a higher capacity meter installed from the outset. I was hoping to install photovoltaic solar panels to generate some of the power required.

It appears it's down to what contractor comes onsite to do the work for ESB. Some have reported being able to negotiate to pay extra for the 32A charger but that's between you and the contractor and you may get one that refuses.

As the salesman said, officially ESB only install the 16A charger.

At the very least you should request the contractor to put in cable capable of taking 32A and then you could swap out the charger and RCBO at a later date without much difficulty. Running the cable is usually the hardest bit.

18-09-2016 1:09pm

The contractor refused to give me 32 amps and as I said to the ESB , what's the point in that ? I can go out and buy one and they said sure, but if you blow your main ESB fuse in the meter box we'll make you upgrade your supply. And I said my house, my car, should be my choice of charge point....

BoatMad · 18-09-2016 6:25pm

Deedsie wrote: »

I don't really understand this bit, they'lol make you upgrade your supply? I want to install the highest grade from the start to future proof it.

Very confusing

The esb are providing the free chargers at present ( soon to run out I beleive). Since they ( esb) contract the installers , it's they who decide what the maximum power is drawn to avoid having to survey houses and potentially fit priority switches etc. The contractor will fit 32 A cable if asked.

For a New build I would automatically go for the 16KvA option

18-09-2016 7:05pm

In other words, BoatMad means the 3.3 Kw charger to simplify things. (technically 3.7 Kw) but the car will only pull 3.5.

You can have your home supply upgraded, the electrician will only fit 16 amp cable and charge point End of discussion with them.

Sooner or later this is going to come back and bite the ass out of the ESB and rightly so, the usual Irish way of doing things, half assed.........

As I said, imagine being told you need to upgrade your supply to do your cooking or go and get Gas ? electricity is an essential service and so is EV charging to those who need it and if someone wants to charge as fast as possible then they shouldn't be prevented from charging, you can sell your 3.3 Kw or 16 amp charge point and buy a 7 kw one and buy and run your own cable and get an electrician to cable it up with an RCBO at the fuse box or consumer unit.

18-09-2016 7:05pm

In other words, BoatMad means the 3.3 Kw charger to simplify things. (technically 3.7 Kw) but the car will only pull 3.5.

You can have your home supply upgraded, the electrician will only fit 16 amp cable and charge point End of discussion with them.

Sooner or later this is going to come back and bite the ass out of the ESB and rightly so, the usual Irish way of doing things, half assed.........

As I said, imagine being told you need to upgrade your supply to do your cooking or go and get Gas ? electricity is an essential service and so is EV charging to those who need it and if someone wants to charge as fast as possible then they shouldn't be prevented from charging, you can sell your 3.3 Kw or 16 amp charge point and buy a 7 kw one and buy and run your own cable and get an electrician to cable it up with an RCBO at the fuse box or consumer unit.

KCross · 18-09-2016 9:32pm

Deedsie wrote: »

Oh the free chargers will be long gone by the time our house is being wired up. We are talking 3 years down the line minimum so I will be paying for it myself. Just want to be prepared and know exactly what I want installed from the start so I won't have to go messing with it a few years later.

Like say today a 6.6 kw charger is the fast charger, will that become a 9.9 kw charger overtake that eventually and will that require and updated fuse system?

I'd expect the only step up from a 7kw/32A charger would be if you got a 3 phase supply. A quote for that is likely to make your eyes water!

19-09-2016 8:14am

I'd say most people will be happy with 3.5 Kw over night, 2 ev's would be 7 Kw.

1 EV at 6.6 Kw and one at 3.5 Kw = 10 kw you could say, still do-a-ble with proper load management, however if the immersion suddenly kicks in you could be in trouble, in fact you probably will.

I see no reason 3 phase has to be very expensive, surely it's the ESB's job to provide a proper service ? as people change to electric they will most likely "force" them to accept 16 amp evse's and I find this completely unacceptable.

BoatMad · 19-09-2016 9:54am

Deleted User wrote: »

In other words, BoatMad means the 3.3 Kw charger to simplify things. (technically 3.7 Kw) but the car will only pull 3.5.

You can have your home supply upgraded, the electrician will only fit 16 amp cable and charge point End of discussion with them.

Sooner or later this is going to come back and bite the ass out of the ESB and rightly so, the usual Irish way of doing things, half assed.........

As I said, imagine being told you need to upgrade your supply to do your cooking or go and get Gas ? electricity is an essential service and so is EV charging to those who need it and if someone wants to charge as fast as possible then they shouldn't be prevented from charging, you can sell your 3.3 Kw or 16 amp charge point and buy a 7 kw one and buy and run your own cable and get an electrician to cable it up with an RCBO at the fuse box or consumer unit.

The esb installer had no issue with pulling a bigger cable. No issue at all.

I don't see the point of your argument , you are after all getting this fOR FREE.
there is nothing , nothing at all stopping you installing a 32 amp EVSE .

BoatMad · 19-09-2016 9:56am

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd say most people will be happy with 3.5 Kw over night, 2 ev's would be 7 Kw.

1 EV at 6.6 Kw and one at 3.5 Kw = 10 kw you could say, still do-a-ble with proper load management, however if the immersion suddenly kicks in you could be in trouble, in fact you probably will.

I see no reason 3 phase has to be very expensive, surely it's the ESB's job to provide a proper service ? as people change to electric they will most likely "force" them to accept 16 amp evse's and I find this completely unacceptable.

The esb can't " force " anything. They do not set the electrical specifications for a house or what's installed in it. Stop just making up " fears " without any justification

Dardania · 19-09-2016 12:02pm

How about fitting the priority contactor arrnagement used for having multiple electric showers?

When I install charge point in my house this si what I'll do, and I'll prioritise the electric shower...

http://www.meteorelectrical.com/news/consumer-units/priority--nonpriority-shower-units/801526994

stesaurus · 19-09-2016 12:05pm

Deedsie wrote: »

So if you were building a house tomorrow and you had to hire an Electrician to wire your house and a charge point for a 6.6 kw charger. What would you ask him/her to install?

There will hopefully be 2 electric showers also.

If building a new house why would you plan on 2 electrical showers? Get it done properly with pumped showers, there's plenty of options that way. Electrical showers are a pain in the ass and a compromise.

stesaurus · 19-09-2016 12:13pm

Priority switches are gonna play havoc with EV charging also. Not all cars will understand why supply has suddenly been cut to the charger and won't then re-start after the shower is finished. Instead you'll head off to work with the car only charged to 30% and a warning about a charging problem.

Dardania · 19-09-2016 12:15pm

s.welstead wrote: »

Priority switches are gonna play havoc with EV charging also. Not all cars will understand why supply has suddenly been cut to the charger and won't then re-start after the shower is finished. Instead you'll head off to work with the car only charged to 30% and a warning about a charging problem.

I have a small concern about that indeed - might they expect to be physcially unplugged and replugged?

Does anyone have specific experience with this e.g. with the Leaf?

BoatMad · 19-09-2016 12:21pm

s.welstead wrote: »

If building a new house why would you plan on 2 electrical showers? Get it done properly with pumped showers, there's plenty of options that way. Electrical showers are a pain in the ass and a compromise.

pumped showers are sooh eighties, go for mains pressure hot water instead

personally I have had both pumped and instantaneous , both have advantages and disadvantages. For example now with the power shower we hardly heat cylinder water ever, which is great during the summer, when before we'd waste a cylinder

BoatMad · 19-09-2016 12:22pm

Deedsie wrote: »

So if you were building a house tomorrow and you had to hire an Electrician to wire your house and a charge point for a 6.6 kw charger. What would you ask him/her to install?

There will hopefully be 2 electric showers also.

uprate your supply to 16 KVA, ( for 700 euros) and that way you can have the showers and the car on at the same time , note that for two powered showers , there will most likely be a priority switch on them anyway

KCross · 19-09-2016 2:05pm

Deedsie wrote: »

So if you were building a house tomorrow and you had to hire an Electrician to wire your house and a charge point for a 6.6 kw charger. What would you ask him/her to install?

There will hopefully be 2 electric showers also.

The main thing to request first is the upgraded 16kVA connection when filling in the ESB connection form and get the day/night meter. Its basically two ticks on a form and the small matter of a few hundred quid extra to ESB.

This is between you and the ESB, not the electrician.

How do you plan to heat your water? Will you have a Heat Pump or are you going the Gas/Oil route or Solar etc? Your choice there will determine what type of showers you get.

If you will have a HP for space heating you will have very cheap hot water so two electric showers would be a bad investment in that case. You would be better off with simple mains pressure mixer showers.

No electrician required for mains pressure showers, just a plumber. No issues with switches tripping and less to go wrong with a main pressure shower and they are silent (because there is no motor) and they have much better pressure than an electric shower and no switching issues as mentioned by others and you can actually have more than one shower running at the same time. Electric showers have alot of restrictions and compromises.

For the car charger (EVSE), get it wired for 40A. What actual charger you put in after is up to you, but at least its future proofed.

Anyone managed to blow the main house fuse ?

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