Dublin Marathon 2016 - Mentored Novices Thread

RasTa · 15-09-2016 04:30PM

My thinking is the crowds will get me below my PMP. At the moment I'm doing about 8:40/min as PMP. Did 7:51/min for the Achill half which is a 3:26 marathon however I won't be keeping up that pace for 26m.

I've abandoned all goals about times as it's not worth the stress. 5 or 10k I understand but this marathon seems to have taken over the life and I'll be glad when it's finished.

Although am interested to see what I do in Dublin half next weekend as I will try and beat Achill but when I raced that I was aiming for under 2 hours but had no watch or anything with me so didn't know until I reached the finish line.

Safrongirl · 15-09-2016 05:01PM

Hi all
well I did it - I ran 32Km this morning in 3.37mins at 6.47km per hour - so so chuffed with myself

My first 5km were terrible as they always are - out of breath - think I never ran in my life but then I settle into it - took a gel at 13KM and all good until about 24Km when hunger took over and all I could think about was food I was so hungry - then at 29Kms I started to feel a bit dizzy - managed to finish the run but still a bit dizzy ? never felt like that out running before - I was drinking loads as I always do so any ideas why dizzy ? was it hunger and if so what do you do when out for a long run - can hardly have a sandwich on route !

Taped up the knees just in case and so far no pain - did loads of foam rolling when I got back home and will do more this evening before bed.

Rest day tomorrow but I always do some cross training anyway

nop98 · 15-09-2016 05:11PM

aceygray wrote: »

I'm feeling the same Kingpin! It's been over a week now.

I had my physio appointment today - I have damaged the cartilage in my left knee. I need to take another two weeks completely off running to let it heal :mad: So I won't be doing the half marathon next week, which is a shame as I was really looking forward to it.

As for the marathon, it's a case of wait and see. I will go back to him in two weeks to see how I'm healing, and then maybe think about easing myself back into training. He wasn't too concerned about me missing too much, because I have the bulk of my training done. If I heal I will still be able to complete the marathon, just maybe with a less ambitious target time. And I'm ok with that.

In the meantime, he suggested swimming. There's a pool near me which opens late 3 nights a week, so I might start that. He also gave me excercises to strengthen the muscles, and told me to ice the area for 3 X 10mins every evening. So fingers crossed.

Fingers crossed indeed... I'm glad you have a diagnosis and recovery plan, and really hope you'll get back to some semblance of running soon enough. Positive thoughts - in what must be a very frustrating time for you.

nop98 · 15-09-2016 05:12PM

Just a reminder to post a question or two for our pacer forum

I'd be interested in a generic do/don't when following pacers. I've ran with pace-groups a couple of times and just hung at the back (usually for dear life).

Do you recommend starting behind the pace-groups and catching up over the first few miles, to have a few seconds in the bank? Or is that all academic in the end.

Also, any funny anecdotes about what it required to get people over the line in time? I remember a picture from DCM a few years ago, where a pacer literally hauled someone by the hand. That's maybe above and beyond the call of duty?

Mrs Mc · 15-09-2016 05:54PM

Hey Nop hope it's ok for us 2015 novices to ask the pacers questions ?????

My questions relate to hills and drags on the course do you adjust your pace to allow for them or do you generally try and keep the same MP for each mile.

My next question relates to the weather how do you prepare for and adjust your race if it's too windy wet or hot any advice ?

My last question relates to your fuelling during your runs do you use any gels or food particularly when you are running for a lot longer than you would normally be used to.

Thanks pacers for taking the time to take questions.

kin9pin · 15-09-2016 06:12PM

nop98 wrote: »

Just a reminder to post a question or two for our pacer forum

I'd be interested in a generic do/don't when following pacers. I've ran with pace-groups a couple of times and just hung at the back (usually for dear life).

Do you recommend starting behind the pace-groups and catching up over the first few miles, to have a few seconds in the bank? Or is that all academic in the end.

Also, any funny anecdotes about what it required to get people over the line in time? I remember a picture from DCM a few years ago, where a pacer literally hauled someone by the hand. That's maybe above and beyond the call of duty?

I remember Clontarf HM last November watching MarthaStew's husband almost lift someone off the ground to get her over the line inside 2 hours.

My only question would be around hills. Do the pacers plan in advance how much time to lose on a climb and where they'll get that time back? Or do they plan to keep pace steady?

kin9pin · 15-09-2016 06:13PM

Mrs Mc wrote: »

Hey Nop hope it's ok for us 2015 novices to ask the pacers questions ?????

My questions relate to hills and drags on the course do you adjust your pace to allow for them or do you generally try and keep the same MP for each mile.

Thanks pacers for taking the time to take questions.

Doh! You beat me to it!

tailgunner · 15-09-2016 06:21PM

Safrongirl wrote: »

I was drinking loads as I always do so any ideas why dizzy ? was it hunger and if so what do you do when out for a long run - can hardly have a sandwich on route !

A sandwich might be tricky alright. Do you take any gels or sweets or anything?

Be careful you don't drink too much water on your long runs and particularly on the day itself - I don't know if it's related to the dizziness, but overhydration can be quite dangerous.

It's a tough old balancing act, this marathoning business. Well done on the 32k!

Mrs Mc · 15-09-2016 06:36PM

kin9pin wrote: »

Doh! You beat me to it!

Great minds !!! Fear of the hills too yeah !!!

Maximus Alexander · 15-09-2016 07:00PM

Safrongirl wrote: »

was it hunger and if so what do you do when out for a long run - can hardly have a sandwich on route !

I don't know about the dizziness, but in terms of hunger you should make sure you're well fed before you head out. A good meal the night before, and a decent breakfast or lunch depending on what time you're going out.

Personally I've never been hungry on a run, but then I'm never shy about stuffing my face either.

The Muppet · 15-09-2016 07:42PM

Safrongirl wrote: »

Hi all
well I did it - I ran 32Km this morning in 3.37mins at 6.47km per hour - so so chuffed with myself

My first 5km were terrible as they always are - out of breath - think I never ran in my life but then I settle into it - took a gel at 13KM and all good until about 24Km when hunger took over and all I could think about was food I was so hungry - then at 29Kms I started to feel a bit dizzy - managed to finish the run but still a bit dizzy ? never felt like that out running before - I was drinking loads as I always do so any ideas why dizzy ? was it hunger and if so what do you do when out for a long run - can hardly have a sandwich on route !

Taped up the knees just in case and so far no pain - did loads of foam rolling when I got back home and will do more this evening before bed.

Rest day tomorrow but I always do some cross training anyway

What did you drink was it just water? It was very warm today you would have lost salts etc on your run it might be an idea to get some zero tabs for the long runs particulay on hot days.

Well done on the the long run especially considering the dizzyNess .

FITZA · 15-09-2016 08:22PM

Coffee Fulled Runner wrote: »

I assume everyone has their planned marathon pace now, or if not a very close idea of what you hope it will be. My question is when it comes to training when you have a PMP run scheduled do most aim for a average pmp on the entire run or break it down each kilometre/mile? Sometimes on a hilly route where I'm climbing constantly for 3 or 4km towards the end of the hill my pace will drop down a second or two per km. Also do you train for exactly the pace you want or a pace maybe five minutes faster?

A while back I accidently switched my garmin to show my average pace when running so I now don't see my actual pace at any given time, just the average and I definitely am slower for the first few kms and gradually I get quicker as the average pace comes down so the overall average pace ends up being close to target. I run most of the pmp runs on grass so just about hit the pace for a 4hr marathon, however I'm not sure I see myself running a full marathon at this pace!!

scotindublin · 15-09-2016 08:27PM

Got the 11 miles done this evening was a few seconds under PMP for 10 miles (8:16) and had a nice last mile to finish.....it felt pretty warm out there this evening. Legs felt a bit sluggish on the run; maybe the affects of the Grant Thornton 5k on Tuesday.

Next Saturday will be my first time running in a pace group feel that it is important that I do this before the big day!

From reading above it looks like the questions I have just now have been asked.

paddydriver · 15-09-2016 11:37PM

Coffee Fulled Runner wrote: »

I assume everyone has their planned marathon pace now, or if not a very close idea of what you hope it will be. My question is when it comes to training when you have a PMP run scheduled do most aim for a average pmp on the entire run or break it down each kilometre/mile? Sometimes on a hilly route where I'm climbing constantly for 3 or 4km towards the end of the hill my pace will drop down a second or two per km. Also do you train for exactly the pace you want or a pace maybe five minutes faster?

I've a fair idea of where my PMP is but last night's (Weds... It's a little late now into Friday morning) run at 11M was tough going and I think it's maybe just the time it has come where we are coming off a lot of miles over last few weeks. I didn't manage to get the PMP on many of the Km at all and just averaged it out over the run. I slowed in the middle, ironically on flattest part of run, but then picked it back up to keep inside the pace.

Think there was just a general lethargy and would hope that, all being well on the week, having done a good taper I will arrive into DCM much fresher than last night. Suppose a better reference was my LSR in the rain 2 weeks back where I ran it at a 4:10 marathon pace and still felt I had plenty in the tank.

Just have to pray now that no unforseen injuries or illness.. That said, could have done with being in bed asleep long before now but had to go to airport and pick up nieces over from UK.

budhistmonk · 16-09-2016 07:10AM

kin9pin wrote: »

I remember Clontarf HM last November watching MarthaStew's husband almost lift someone off the ground to get her over the line inside 2 hours.

That's gas, I ran Clontarf with the 2 hour pacers last November. They were absolutely brilliant. Joe, if I remember correctly, was so encouraging the last few miles from the causeway. Kept us all going. Heroes.

Singer · 16-09-2016 08:19AM

Questions for pacers:

Why do you do it? Are you crazy?! You could be racing out there!

How do you train for pacing a marathon? Does it differ much from a standard training regime?

What percentage of a pacing group actually stay with it to the end?

jameshayes · 16-09-2016 08:34AM

Most of my training runs have been in baking heat and typically it'll be 7 degrees and raining for the marathon!

davedanon · 16-09-2016 08:42AM

Singer wrote: »

Questions for pacers:

Why do you do it? Are you crazy?! You could be racing out there!

How do you train for pacing a marathon? Does it differ much from a standard training regime?

What percentage of a pacing group actually stay with it to the end?

I'd say most pacers get a big kick out of helping other people achieve their goals, even if publicly all they'll admit to is being after the cash/free gear and entry/special treatment.

I'm pacing for the first time at DCM myself. The reason is that I am racing in Berlin next week, but didn't want to miss out on the DCM experience. I've done it every year since 2009, and I don't want to break the streak. Plus, I didn't want to be sitting in the pub with my club mates without having shared the day with them properly. Although of course I'm also all about the free stuff and the gear.

davedanon · 16-09-2016 08:45AM

jameshayes wrote: »

Most of my training runs have been in baking heat and typically it'll be 7 degrees and raining for the marathon!

That would be ideal. You'll be cool as a breeze on the day. Whatever discomfort you feel before the start is nothing compared to knowing there is zero chance chance of overheating out on the course. Give me the cold. Give me the rain.

Firedance · 16-09-2016 08:47AM

budhistmonk wrote: »

Heroes.

+1 to that! I have some questions too if that's okay

- In your experience what works best for pacing, an even split throughout or taking time to study the course in advance and knowing which miles to slow up on for hills etc?

- How do you calculate paces for hills v flat?

- In some races pacers aim to come in up to 30 seconds before the goal time, do you recommend that runners should take that into account when doing MP or HMP miles in training?

- Do you have any tips for the mental and physical battle a runner might face if they drop off the pace group?

- How do you cope with runners that glue themselves to your shoulder

Thank you so much for taking the time to come in and give us advice!

Classic21 · 16-09-2016 09:34AM

11.5 miles last night. Didn't get to start until eight o' clock, I was about to start running at 6 but life got in the was. I wasn't looking forward to it but got going pretty quickly and ran the first 4.5 miles at a tempo pace. I met a club mate at 4.5 miles, he was in the middle of a 20 mile run and I stayed at his pace for the next 7 miles.
Not the session I planned but an enjoyable run and a good few tips for Dublin especially around getting my head right when the pain hits (I was told it will hit but a few prompts to ignore pain / doubts are helpful).
20 miles for me on Saturday early to bed to be ready for it!

PaulieC · 16-09-2016 11:41AM

Mrs Mc wrote: »

Hey Nop hope it's ok for us 2015 novices to ask the pacers questions ?????

Mrs Mc wrote: »

My questions relate to hills and drags on the course do you adjust your pace to allow for them or do you generally try and keep the same MP for each mile.

Pacers (well me anyway ) will generally try to keep the pace as steady as possible, but will adjust up or down depending on the gradient. Dublin doesn't really have any big hills, but Chesterfield Road/Crumlin/Clonskeagh are pretty long drags so the pace won't drop off too much or it would be difficult to make the time back as there aren't really any long downhills to compensate. I would say the pace shouldn't be any more than +/- 10 seconds per mile (depending on the pace). The pacers will aim to finish approx. 30 seconds under the goal time.

Mrs Mc wrote: »

My next question relates to the weather how do you prepare for and adjust your race if it's too windy wet or hot any advice ?

Not really any adjustments (again for me) in pace, except if it's very windy. The training period of 16 or so weeks should have given you enough experience in different weather to cope on the day. If it's wet, make sure you use your favourite anti-chafing solution as wet material can start to cause problems as time goes on. I highly recommend zinc oxide tape for nipples, it works brilliantly in my experience.

Mrs Mc wrote: »

My last question relates to your fuelling during your runs do you use any gels or food particularly when you are running for a lot longer than you would normally be used to.

I have a more relaxed attitude towards fuelling when pacing than I would with running my own race. Last time I paced DCM (4:40) I didn't have anything of my own, but I took a lot of jellies and chocolate that were offered by the crowd.

Singer wrote: »

Why do you do it? Are you crazy?! You could be racing out there![/QUOTE/

I do it because I like it. I haven't analysed why, but it's good fun. I could be racing, but this year I didn't have enough prep to race it myself and I missed out on running last year and was well jealous of those who did.

Singer wrote: »

How do you train for pacing a marathon? Does it differ much from a standard training regime?

For me, the same as normal, but just not as intensely as I would if going for a PB. I have 3 20+ mile runs penciled over the next couple of weeks and do two sessions during the week, be it hill reps, tempo runs, 800s etc.

Singer wrote: »

What percentage of a pacing group actually stay with it to the end?

I'd say maybe half. You start off with a crowd, then some push on (a lot of whom you pick up again later in the race) and some fall away. Within the group you get folks who chat with each other and you find that they are the ones encouraging each other as the race goes on.

The Black Oil · 16-09-2016 11:42AM

Boards on desktop just about working. Anyway...

Noticed a niggle in my left ankle on Weds evening. It went away after a while. Same story yesterday, but it disappeared after 0.5 of a mile. Not sure how I'd describe it, was a little sore. Will keep an eye in case it happens again tomorrow.

Might build a park run into the LSR, stop for the barcode scan and go on from there.

Have a good weekend, all.

chrislad · 16-09-2016 12:21PM

budhistmonk wrote: »

That's gas, I ran Clontarf with the 2 hour pacers last November. They were absolutely brilliant. Joe, if I remember correctly, was so encouraging the last few miles from the causeway. Kept us all going. Heroes.

Joe was fantastic during the half in Dublin last year. Top bloke. Did all he could to get me over the line, but it wasn't happening that day, as my right glute tightened up, and this wasn't the main thing!

Fantastic pacer though!

tony1980 · 16-09-2016 12:22PM

I went for a 2.5 mile handy run this morning to test the knee out. No issues on the run and two hours later, all seems good, no stiffness, just a little tender but certainly no pain.

I am really happy with that, I have missed running so much! Do you think an LSR would be ok tomorrow?

scotindublin · 16-09-2016 12:28PM

Sounds positive Tony!

I will leave it to the more knowledgeable folks to answer your question re the LSR.....sounds risky though.

Craig

tony1980 wrote: »

I went for a 2.5 mile handy run this morning to test the knee out. No issues on the run and two hours later, all seems good, no stiffness, just a little tender but certainly no pain.

I am really happy with that, I have missed running so much! Do you think an LSR would be ok tomorrow?

The Black Oil · 16-09-2016 12:44PM

Seems I didn't register for the half. Don't know why I went for the FD10 and DCM without the HM. Damn. That's that.

Maximus Alexander · 16-09-2016 01:06PM

Personally I'd probably build back up to it Tony rather than take a risk. I'd probably go for a 5 miler and see how I got on after that. But I don't know what I'm talking about.

budhistmonk · 16-09-2016 01:08PM

chrislad wrote: »

Joe was fantastic during the half in Dublin last year. Top bloke. Did all he could to get me over the line, but it wasn't happening that day, as my right glute tightened up, and this wasn't the main thing!

Fantastic pacer though!

Yeah the same team did the 2 hour pacing in the Dublin HM last Sept. I wasn't able to stick with them to the finish though. That bloomin' hill up the Upper Glen road at the end got me. The pacers were great though. Chatted to us the whole way. I think during the half they said they were going to also pace 4hrs in DCM last year too. A couple of pacing pros.

aceygray · 16-09-2016 01:24PM

I have a question for the pacers. Maybe others will have an opinion as well.

If your target time is around halfway between two pace groups what should you do? Is it better to start with the faster group and let them pull away from you, or with the slower group and try to get ahead of them?

Dublin Marathon 2016 - Mentored Novices Thread

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