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Sunday 11th

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Comments

  • #32
    tryfix
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,702 ✭✭✭tryfix


    kfallon wrote: »
    Yeah OOSG looked a bit of a dodgepot in the last few furlongs, looked to me like he was trying to lug in behind the winner on a couple of occasions. Wasn't there a strong headwind in the home straight, maybe that was the reason for him doing it? Never saw it before from the horse.

    The horse and jockey combination were fighting each other for a fair bit towards the end of the race, I thought it was the horse in the earlier part of the end of the race but near the end it looked like Moore deliberately lugged in behind the winner looking for a non existent gap or to slipstream the other horse with no time left that would justify such a move. Then when Moore got the horse out again OOSG only got going as the line was approaching. While it looked like OOSG was well beaten he was in fact only beaten by a rapidly diminishing 1/2L. OOSG would most likely have won yesterday if Moore had been strong enough? or willing to drive the horse straight to the line instead of letting or lugging him in behind the other horse

    The horse was beaten by his own teams tactics. Firstly in a race that had cut up really badly they withdrew the pacemakers leaving their star stayer vulnerable to a clever tactical ride by one of his rivals in a 4 horse race and they don't come any cleverer tactically than Frankie Dettori. Secondly the jockey rode OOSG like he was a non stayer ( held up ) when the horse had won the race last year by grinding his rivals into submission from the front from 3 furlongs out.

    'Twas shocking arrogance from team Coolmore to leave their star ( 124 OR ) horses reputation in a 4 horse race in the hands of a jockey who's proven himself to be tactically inept this year, all the while Bondi Beach ( a horse who had a Leger in the bag last year ) was left out the back and out of this prestigious race to chase around the sharper 12f horses at Leopardstown for a winning prize that was worth considerably less than even 2nd in the Irish St Leger was worth.

    They've destroyed OOSG's reputation as a theoretical ( overblown ) match for the likes of the Arc horses and damaged his stud value, all through crap planning and belief in a seriously suspect jockey tactics and health wise.


  • #33
    Wicklow Brave
    Closed Accounts Posts: 492 ✭✭Wicklow Brave


    Zhukova and Intricately both winning over the weekend. Fastnet Rock x Galileo proving to be very successful. Thoughts?


  • #34
    tryfix
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,702 ✭✭✭tryfix


    Wicklow Brave wrote: »
    Zhukova and Intricately both winning over the weekend. Fastnet Rock x Galileo proving to be very successful. Thoughts?

    The nick has produced 2 Gp 1 winners ( Qualify and Intricately ) and the promising Gp2 winning juvenile Rivet. That ability to produce top 2yos and Classic horses would suit Coolmore and their legion of Galileo broodmares very well. If you look at Zhukova she's very much like a Dubawi, didn't run till 3 and has kept progressing through the ranks. The likes of her and most of the Dubawi's we've seen are not exactly the types that Coolmore want to produce for their stallion farms but who could turn down such fine animals.

    Hopefully we'll see plenty of the better Coolmore mares heading Fastnet Rock's way, the stallion deserves that kind of support. He's a little like his own sire Danehill in his final years at Coolmore when he was churning out middle distance types rather than the speedy 2yos of his early days.

    Just to add, ye can seemingly cross Galileo with anything and get good results. Yesterday an inbreeding experiment called Musaanada ( by Sea The Stars x Gaze ( Galileo ) won a 12f race on the all weather on his debut.


    Hope you don't mind, I'm going to cross post this reply on the Stallions thread to breathe a little life into that thread.


  • #35
    Lt Dan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,295 ✭✭✭Lt Dan


    tryfix wrote: »
    The horse and jockey combination were fighting each other for a fair bit towards the end of the race, I thought it was the horse in the earlier part of the end of the race but near the end it looked like Moore deliberately lugged in behind the winner looking for a non existent gap or to slipstream the other horse with no time left that would justify such a move. Then when Moore got the horse out again OOSG only got going as the line was approaching. While it looked like OOSG was well beaten he was in fact only beaten by a rapidly diminishing 1/2L. OOSG would most likely have won yesterday if Moore had been strong enough? or willing to drive the horse straight to the line instead of letting or lugging him in behind the other horse

    The horse was beaten by his own teams tactics. Firstly in a race that had cut up really badly they withdrew the pacemakers leaving their star stayer vulnerable to a clever tactical ride by one of his rivals in a 4 horse race and they don't come any cleverer tactically than Frankie Dettori. Secondly the jockey rode OOSG like he was a non stayer ( held up ) when the horse had won the race last year by grinding his rivals into submission from the front from 3 furlongs out.

    'Twas shocking arrogance from team Coolmore to leave their star ( 124 OR ) horses reputation in a 4 horse race in the hands of a jockey who's proven himself to be tactically inept this year, all the while Bondi Beach ( a horse who had a Leger in the bag last year ) was left out the back and out of this prestigious race to chase around the sharper 12f horses at Leopardstown for a winning prize that was worth considerably less than even 2nd in the Irish St Leger was worth.

    They've destroyed OOSG's reputation as a theoretical ( overblown ) match for the likes of the Arc horses and damaged his stud value, all through crap planning and belief in a seriously suspect jockey tactics and health wise.

    Anyone at the Parade ring before the races. The experts were saying before the race how OSG would win doing handstands - despite Ascot Gold Cup winners of that year having a shoddy enough history in the race, Yeats included. They were more interested in talking about him going to the Arc and, lol, doing it in Melbourne where he was definitely down for top weight (few ever win it with top weight) and potential good - good to firm ground.

    While I always feel that there is a bit of a curse in winning the Gold Cup and then running in something like the Goodwood, Donny or Yorkshire Cups and/or St Leger, in fairness, light Leading Light , OSG had no problems winning the Group 3 prep race for the St Leger. As you alluded to, OSG was definitely coming fast near the end, I thought he had Wicklow Brave. Not sure did the wind , and there was one, blowing into them, harmed him. Seemed a good day for front running as Pat Smullen showed earlier in the Blandford

    Doesn't O'Brien tell his jockeys how he wants them ran?


  • #36
    tryfix
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,702 ✭✭✭tryfix


    Lt Dan wrote: »
    Anyone at the Parade ring before the races. The experts were saying before the race how OSG would win doing handstands - despite Ascot Gold Cup winners of that year having a shoddy enough history in the race, Yeats included. They were more interested in talking about him going to the Arc and, lol, doing it in Melbourne where he was definitely down for top weight (few ever win it with top weight) and potential good - good to firm ground.

    While I always feel that there is a bit of a curse in winning the Gold Cup and then running in something like the Goodwood, Donny or Yorkshire Cups and/or St Leger, in fairness, light Leading Light , OSG had no problems winning the Group 3 prep race for the St Leger. As you alluded to, OSG was definitely coming fast near the end, I thought he had Wicklow Brave. Not sure did the wind , and there was one, blowing into them, harmed him. Seemed a good day for front running as Pat Smullen showed earlier in the Blandford

    Doesn't O'Brien tell his jockeys how he wants them ran?
    IIRC O'Brien's staying hotpots have had a terrible record in the Irish Leger it's just one of those races that's very difficult to take. Probably the fall down factor is that it's a 1m 6f race that Ascot Gold Cup 2m 4f type horses are expected to win with ease.

    OOSG ain't as pacey as a 4yo as he was as a 3yo, or maybe he's been ridden like he's a classy 12f horse who's arsing around with vastly inferior opponents. You don't really instruct a rider like Moore on how to ride a horse he's very well acquainted with, you just let him at with broad instructions like settle him in behind and take it from there as the race progresses. Besides that, it wasn't only jockey error that beat the horse, team Coolmore let the horse compete in a notoriously tricky race with just 3 opponents and no pacemaker when they'd an army of suitable pacemakers available to them who'd have earned a nice little crust for finishing last in that tiny field.


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  • #37
    Lt Dan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,295 ✭✭✭Lt Dan


    tryfix wrote: »
    IIRC O'Brien's staying hotpots have had a terrible record in the Irish Leger it's just one of those races that's very difficult to take. Probably the fall down factor is that it's a 1m 6f race that Ascot Gold Cup 2m 4f type horses are expected to win with ease.

    OOSG ain't as pacey as a 4yo as he was as a 3yo, or maybe he's been ridden like he's a classy 12f horse who's arsing around with vastly inferior opponents. You don't really instruct a rider like Moore on how to ride a horse he's very well acquainted with, you just let him at with broad instructions like settle him in behind and take it from there as the race progresses. Besides that, it wasn't only jockey error that beat the horse, team Coolmore let the horse compete in a notoriously tricky race with just 3 opponents and no pacemaker when they'd an army of suitable pacemakers available to them who'd have earned a nice little crust for finishing last in that tiny field.

    I can not disagree,but being pedantic, that was only Moore's second time to ride him in a race. He must be still injured too , could only explain the finish. People like yourself correctly alluded to the inability to understand by a stayer like Bondi Beach was not allowed to run in this, even on his own merits not to mention a pace maker that they clearly have little use for in the future. Are Coolmore really that arrogant?


  • #38
    tryfix
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,702 ✭✭✭tryfix


    Lt Dan wrote: »
    I can not disagree,but being pedantic, that was only Moore's second time to ride him in a race. He must be still injured too , could only explain the finish. People like yourself correctly alluded to the inability to understand by a stayer like Bondi Beach was not allowed to run in this, even on his own merits not to mention a pace maker that they clearly have little use for in the future. Are Coolmore really that arrogant?
    That was Moore's third time to ride him, he also was beaten over course and distance on him by Bondi Beach in June 2015 before the horse went on a 6 race winning spree before Moore lost again over course and distance on Sunday.

    Coolmore tend to run only one horse when they're super confident of winning, guess they were too super confident to realise that OOSG ain't Pegasus.


  • #39
    Lt Dan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,295 ✭✭✭Lt Dan


    tryfix wrote: »
    That was Moore's third time to ride him, he also was beaten over course and distance on him by Bondi Beach in June 2015 before the horse went on a 6 race winning spree before Moore lost again over course and distance on Sunday.

    Coolmore tend to run only one horse when they're super confident of winning, guess they were too super confident to realise that OOSG ain't Pegasus.

    How right you are, Father. Forgive me!


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