Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

How do Pro Life campaigners want women who have abortions punished?

1…78101213…25

Comments

  • #272
    PucaMama
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    Decent Skin wrote: »
    PucaMama wrote: »
    I have voted for people who would in reality allow the referendum because they would generally do more good than bad. It's not the single deciding factor in who I would vote for.

    Good. And apologies for misjudging you based on only your previous posts.

    When are they allowing it so that we can put this to bed once and for all ?
    No it's fine you can only judge on what's in front of you.
    I don't know when it's allowed but I know I'll be fine once I get a vote cus the current laws are not something women who can currently get pregnant have had a vote on


  • #273
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,866 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    PucaMama wrote: »
    Because having a disability shouldn't stop you having a life at all

    Why should parents be forced into a life of hardship against their wishes if it is easily avoidable?


  • #274
    PucaMama
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    AbusesToilets wrote: »
    PucaMama wrote: »
    Because having a disability shouldn't stop you having a life at all

    Why should parents be forced into a life of hardship against their wishes if it is easily avoidable?
    Give the child up if you don't want it (could we have a vote to give married couples the right to have a child adopted?) but at least give it a chance, I wasn't supposed to be able to walk and talk I can do both.


  • #275
    Widdershins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    PucaMama wrote: »
    The reasons behind it are what matters not the where. Aborting a child for having a disability is wrong in my opinion for example.

    But you can't stop it happening, all you are achieving is making a lot of people either break themselves to pay for it abroad or attempt it in some unsafe way at home.


  • #276
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,866 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    What scenario are you trying to build? I don't know the hypothetical legal framework surrounding abortion in your scenario.

    Either permit the abortion or induce the mother and do what you can with the fetus.


  • Advertisement
  • #277
    Widdershins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    PucaMama wrote: »
    Give the child up if you don't want it (could we have a vote to give married couples the right to have a child adopted?) but at least give it a chance, I wasn't supposed to be able to walk and talk I can do both.

    Childrens homes for the disabled..hardly ideal


  • #278
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,866 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    PucaMama wrote: »
    Give the child up if you don't want it (could we have a vote to give married couples the right to have a child adopted?) but at least give it a chance, I wasn't supposed to be able to walk and talk I can do both.

    There is a world of difference between what you describe and conditions like Downs or other serious congenital defects.


  • #279
    The Specialist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭The Specialist


    AbusesToilets wrote: »
    What scenario are you trying to build? I don't know the hypothetical legal framework surrounding abortion in your scenario.

    Either permit the abortion or induce the mother and do what you can with the fetus.

    He's trying to use emotional scenarios and language to evoke a response from you, it's what the pro life side do best.


  • #280
    Decent Skin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Decent Skin


    PucaMama wrote: »
    Give the child up if you don't want it (could we have a vote to give married couples the right to have a child adopted?) but at least give it a chance, I wasn't supposed to be able to walk and talk I can do both.

    I'd be right there campaigning with you for that one - it was news to me and I think it's a disgrace!


  • #281
    PucaMama
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    Widdershins wrote: »
    PucaMama wrote: »
    The reasons behind it are what matters not the where. Aborting a child for having a disability is wrong in my opinion for example.

    But you can't stop it happening, all you are achieving is making a lot of people either break themselves to pay for it abroad or attempt it in some unsafe way at home.
    I'm not making anyone do anything. And break themselves? I've seen people pay more for dental treatment here.


  • Advertisement
  • #282
    PucaMama
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    Decent Skin wrote: »
    PucaMama wrote: »
    Give the child up if you don't want it (could we have a vote to give married couples the right to have a child adopted?) but at least give it a chance, I wasn't supposed to be able to walk and talk I can do both.

    I'd be right there campaigning with you for that one - it was news to me and I think it's a disgrace!
    It's idiotic and completely counter productive like the stance some pro life have against contraception


  • #283
    Decent Skin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Decent Skin


    Blue_Bear wrote: »
    Likewise if the child is born and only then discovered to have disabilities why should the parents be forced into a life of hardship against their wishes if it is easily avoidable.

    Because at that stage it is a child and has rights, none of which impact on bodily integrity.


  • #284
    thee glitz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,294 ✭✭✭thee glitz


    Widdershins wrote: »
    But you can't stop it happening, all you are achieving is making a lot of people either break themselves to pay for it abroad or attempt it in some unsafe way at home.

    No-one is making anyone do either of those things.


  • #285
    Widdershins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    PucaMama wrote: »
    I'm not making anyone do anything. And break themselves? I've seen people pay more for dental treatment here.

    If you've seen people pay more than 1000 for dental treatment then they're not in financial difficulty. You are very fortunate to have so little understanding that you can't understand how a woman could financially break herself in this situation.


  • #286
    Decent Skin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Decent Skin


    PucaMama wrote: »
    It's idiotic and completely counter productive like the stance some pro life have against contraception

    See? That's about 3 things we agree completely on! Discussion is good!


  • #287
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,866 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    That's an entirely different situation. The child is a citizen with full rights. As to the parents, they then have responsibilities towards said child.


  • #288
    PucaMama
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    AbusesToilets wrote: »
    PucaMama wrote: »
    Give the child up if you don't want it (could we have a vote to give married couples the right to have a child adopted?) but at least give it a chance, I wasn't supposed to be able to walk and talk I can do both.

    There is a world of difference between what you describe and conditions like Downs or other serious congenital defects.
    I have a condition that usually results in serious consequences and serious disability. How many have been aborted because of the diagnosis that could have been mostly fine like me?


  • #289
    Widdershins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    thee glitz wrote: »
    No-one is making anyone do either of those things.

    If you want to prevent abortion access in Ireland you are doing exactly that


  • #290
    PucaMama
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    Decent Skin wrote: »
    PucaMama wrote: »
    It's idiotic and completely counter productive like the stance some pro life have against contraception

    See? That's about 3 things we agree completely on! Discussion is good!
    Probably agree on others too ha


  • #291
    PucaMama
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    Widdershins wrote: »
    thee glitz wrote: »
    No-one is making anyone do either of those things.

    If you want to prevent abortion access in Ireland you are doing exactly that
    I have never had a vote on abortion in Ireland and recently I found I'm not the most extreme either so I disagree


  • Advertisement
  • #292
    Decent Skin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Decent Skin


    I raised this point earlier and got vile dog's abuse. Good to see that not everyone is as bad and acknowledges that it's one of the areas that should be up for discussion as it has its own set of circumstance and is not avoidable (mind you I'd gladly support the death penalty for those who do this).


  • #293
    thee glitz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,294 ✭✭✭thee glitz


    Widdershins wrote: »
    If you want to prevent abortion access in Ireland you are doing exactly that

    You're saying abortions are mandatory? They're not, but may be necessary in rare circumstances.


  • #294
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,866 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    The legal framework would hopefully be based on science. Where the line is set for fetal viability is not an answer I have. For me, in a situation like you describe, the woman's right to choose would outweigh that of the fetus.

    Why is less of a murder in your eyes if a fetus is the result of a rape? Odd level of moral gymnastics there.


  • #295
    Widdershins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    PucaMama wrote: »
    I have never had a vote on abortion in Ireland and recently I found I'm not the most extreme either so I disagree

    So you're not against abortions happening in Ireland? You might not personally be preventing it but it seems that your wish is for it to continue to be farmed out to England. Is that incorrect?


  • #296
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,866 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Citizens have rights. A fetus is not a citizen.


  • #297
    PucaMama
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    I believe if a lot of social problems were sorted a lot less people would be put in a situation where they felt abortion was their only option. Like the judging of adults who give a child up for adoption, they are doing a lot better than people who keep a child and don't care about it.


  • #298
    Widdershins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    thee glitz wrote: »
    You're saying abortions are mandatory? They're not, but may be necessary in rare circumstances.

    How did you deduce that? I said nothing of the sort


  • #299
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,866 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    To my eyes, it marks the point that a fetus can be seen as an independent entity from the mother. At stage that it has a reasonable chance at survival.


  • #300
    pq0n1ct4ve8zf5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    PucaMama wrote: »
    Widdershins wrote: »
    PucaMama wrote: »
    The reasons behind it are what matters not the where. Aborting a child for having a disability is wrong in my opinion for example.

    But you can't stop it happening, all you are achieving is making a lot of people either break themselves to pay for it abroad or attempt it in some unsafe way at home.
    I'm not making anyone do anything. And break themselves? I've seen people pay more for dental treatment here.

    Having the eighth amendment creates the situation where those things happen though. And voting for the eighth amendment to remain is voting for at home and backstreet abortions, it's voting for the couples who choose to have FFA pregnancies aborted to keep having ashes delivered by courier. It's voting for teenagers and asylum seekers to keep making desperate, dangerous decisions. If I vote to maintain a ban on ambulances I don't get off the hook by saying I don't force anyone to break their legs and they should just not do that.


  • Advertisement
  • #301
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    AbusesToilets wrote: »
    Fetal viability separate from the mother seems like a reasonable place to do so. Even that would likely require intensive care for an extended duration.

    A pro-life supporter sees no area for reasonable debate. Life is sacrosanct to them, end of.

    Well no, only ones who believe in life at conception. Pro life voters have different thresholds for when they object to abortion.


Advertisement