How do Pro Life campaigners want women who have abortions punished?

Decent Skin wrote: »

PucaMama wrote: »

I have voted for people who would in reality allow the referendum because they would generally do more good than bad. It's not the single deciding factor in who I would vote for.

Good. And apologies for misjudging you based on only your previous posts.

When are they allowing it so that we can put this to bed once and for all ?

No it's fine you can only judge on what's in front of you.
I don't know when it's allowed but I know I'll be fine once I get a vote cus the current laws are not something women who can currently get pregnant have had a vote on

PucaMama wrote: »

Because having a disability shouldn't stop you having a life at all

Why should parents be forced into a life of hardship against their wishes if it is easily avoidable?

AbusesToilets wrote: »

PucaMama wrote: »

Because having a disability shouldn't stop you having a life at all

Why should parents be forced into a life of hardship against their wishes if it is easily avoidable?

Give the child up if you don't want it (could we have a vote to give married couples the right to have a child adopted?) but at least give it a chance, I wasn't supposed to be able to walk and talk I can do both.

PucaMama wrote: »

The reasons behind it are what matters not the where. Aborting a child for having a disability is wrong in my opinion for example.

But you can't stop it happening, all you are achieving is making a lot of people either break themselves to pay for it abroad or attempt it in some unsafe way at home.

What scenario are you trying to build? I don't know the hypothetical legal framework surrounding abortion in your scenario.

Either permit the abortion or induce the mother and do what you can with the fetus.

PucaMama wrote: »

Give the child up if you don't want it (could we have a vote to give married couples the right to have a child adopted?) but at least give it a chance, I wasn't supposed to be able to walk and talk I can do both.

Childrens homes for the disabled..hardly ideal

PucaMama wrote: »

Give the child up if you don't want it (could we have a vote to give married couples the right to have a child adopted?) but at least give it a chance, I wasn't supposed to be able to walk and talk I can do both.

There is a world of difference between what you describe and conditions like Downs or other serious congenital defects.

The Specialist

AbusesToilets wrote: »

What scenario are you trying to build? I don't know the hypothetical legal framework surrounding abortion in your scenario.

Either permit the abortion or induce the mother and do what you can with the fetus.

He's trying to use emotional scenarios and language to evoke a response from you, it's what the pro life side do best.

PucaMama wrote: »

Give the child up if you don't want it (could we have a vote to give married couples the right to have a child adopted?) but at least give it a chance, I wasn't supposed to be able to walk and talk I can do both.

I'd be right there campaigning with you for that one - it was news to me and I think it's a disgrace!

Widdershins wrote: »

PucaMama wrote: »

The reasons behind it are what matters not the where. Aborting a child for having a disability is wrong in my opinion for example.

But you can't stop it happening, all you are achieving is making a lot of people either break themselves to pay for it abroad or attempt it in some unsafe way at home.

I'm not making anyone do anything. And break themselves? I've seen people pay more for dental treatment here.

Decent Skin wrote: »

PucaMama wrote: »

Give the child up if you don't want it (could we have a vote to give married couples the right to have a child adopted?) but at least give it a chance, I wasn't supposed to be able to walk and talk I can do both.

I'd be right there campaigning with you for that one - it was news to me and I think it's a disgrace!

It's idiotic and completely counter productive like the stance some pro life have against contraception

Blue_Bear wrote: »

Likewise if the child is born and only then discovered to have disabilities why should the parents be forced into a life of hardship against their wishes if it is easily avoidable.

Because at that stage it is a child and has rights, none of which impact on bodily integrity.

thee glitz

Widdershins wrote: »

But you can't stop it happening, all you are achieving is making a lot of people either break themselves to pay for it abroad or attempt it in some unsafe way at home.

No-one is making anyone do either of those things.

PucaMama wrote: »

I'm not making anyone do anything. And break themselves? I've seen people pay more for dental treatment here.

If you've seen people pay more than 1000 for dental treatment then they're not in financial difficulty. You are very fortunate to have so little understanding that you can't understand how a woman could financially break herself in this situation.

PucaMama wrote: »

It's idiotic and completely counter productive like the stance some pro life have against contraception

See? That's about 3 things we agree completely on! Discussion is good!

That's an entirely different situation. The child is a citizen with full rights. As to the parents, they then have responsibilities towards said child.

AbusesToilets wrote: »

PucaMama wrote: »

Give the child up if you don't want it (could we have a vote to give married couples the right to have a child adopted?) but at least give it a chance, I wasn't supposed to be able to walk and talk I can do both.

There is a world of difference between what you describe and conditions like Downs or other serious congenital defects.

I have a condition that usually results in serious consequences and serious disability. How many have been aborted because of the diagnosis that could have been mostly fine like me?

thee glitz wrote: »

No-one is making anyone do either of those things.

If you want to prevent abortion access in Ireland you are doing exactly that

Decent Skin wrote: »

PucaMama wrote: »

It's idiotic and completely counter productive like the stance some pro life have against contraception

See? That's about 3 things we agree completely on! Discussion is good!

Probably agree on others too ha

Widdershins wrote: »

thee glitz wrote: »

No-one is making anyone do either of those things.

If you want to prevent abortion access in Ireland you are doing exactly that

I have never had a vote on abortion in Ireland and recently I found I'm not the most extreme either so I disagree

I raised this point earlier and got vile dog's abuse. Good to see that not everyone is as bad and acknowledges that it's one of the areas that should be up for discussion as it has its own set of circumstance and is not avoidable (mind you I'd gladly support the death penalty for those who do this).

thee glitz

Widdershins wrote: »

If you want to prevent abortion access in Ireland you are doing exactly that

You're saying abortions are mandatory? They're not, but may be necessary in rare circumstances.

The legal framework would hopefully be based on science. Where the line is set for fetal viability is not an answer I have. For me, in a situation like you describe, the woman's right to choose would outweigh that of the fetus.

Why is less of a murder in your eyes if a fetus is the result of a rape? Odd level of moral gymnastics there.

PucaMama wrote: »

I have never had a vote on abortion in Ireland and recently I found I'm not the most extreme either so I disagree

So you're not against abortions happening in Ireland? You might not personally be preventing it but it seems that your wish is for it to continue to be farmed out to England. Is that incorrect?

Citizens have rights. A fetus is not a citizen.

I believe if a lot of social problems were sorted a lot less people would be put in a situation where they felt abortion was their only option. Like the judging of adults who give a child up for adoption, they are doing a lot better than people who keep a child and don't care about it.

thee glitz wrote: »

You're saying abortions are mandatory? They're not, but may be necessary in rare circumstances.

How did you deduce that? I said nothing of the sort