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How do Pro Life campaigners want women who have abortions punished?

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Comments

  • #242
    PucaMama
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    eviltwin wrote: »
    PucaMama wrote: »
    What do I expect from a thread when posters say they want reasoned debate on it? I expect the insults to be left out and the high and mighty "I'm such a liberal" attitude of pro choicers to be left at the door.

    What's the point in debating at all? Are you going to change your mind?
    Are you?


  • #243
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    PucaMama wrote: »
    If you allow a referendum, there will be the same controlling behaviour from the repeal side as there was from the yes side in the same sex marriage referendum. Although I voted yes I was disgusted at the no sides posters being ripped down etc and don't tell me it didn't happen because o had a family member who took part in it. All "no" opinions will be stamped down. You will not be let talk how you want.

    Is that the best you can come up with?


  • #244
    Decent Skin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Decent Skin


    PucaMama wrote: »
    If you allow a referendum, there will be the same controlling behaviour from the repeal side as there was from the yes side in the same sex marriage referendum. Although I voted yes I was disgusted at the no sides posters being ripped down etc and don't tell me it didn't happen because o had a family member who took part in it. All "no" opinions will be stamped down. You will not be let talk how you want.

    Have to say that I agree completely with that, and defriended 2 people on Facebook when they posted photos of themselves taking posters down.

    Said posters were merely "don't be silenced" and nothing whatsoever inflammatory or objectionable.


  • #245
    Widdershins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    PucaMama wrote: »
    If you allow a referendum, there will be the same controlling behaviour from the repeal side as there was from the yes side in the same sex marriage referendum. Although I voted yes I was disgusted at the no sides posters being ripped down etc and don't tell me it didn't happen because o had a family member who took part in it. All "no" opinions will be stamped down. You will not be let talk how you want.

    As a YES voter I was bothered by some of it. It was also over the top and in my face constantly. I don't think that would have persuaded me to vote YES if I wasn't originally going to. In a reverse psychology it almost made me want to vote NO out of irritation


  • #246
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    PucaMama wrote: »
    Are you?

    No. If anything these threads just reinforce my feelings on the issue.


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  • #247
    PucaMama
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    eviltwin wrote: »
    PucaMama wrote: »
    If you allow a referendum, there will be the same controlling behaviour from the repeal side as there was from the yes side in the same sex marriage referendum. Although I voted yes I was disgusted at the no sides posters being ripped down etc and don't tell me it didn't happen because o had a family member who took part in it. All "no" opinions will be stamped down. You will not be let talk how you want.

    Is that the best you can come up with?
    There's nothing wrong with not wanting a referendum where people will be bullied into voting how others want them to.


  • #248
    PucaMama
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    eviltwin wrote: »
    PucaMama wrote: »
    Are you?

    No. If anything these threads just reinforce my feelings on the issue.
    That's pretty much my feelings too so why do people look for debate or pretend to look for look for one


  • #249
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    PucaMama wrote: »
    There's nothing wrong with not wanting a referendum where people will be bullied into voting how others want them to.

    Let's take a look shall we? I'd imagine the slurs to the keep the 8th side will revolve around comments about being anti women, holy joes etc. Not nice or mature but a lot less damaging than the emotional ****e that will come from the other side about baby killing, murder, abortion causes cancer, women who choose abortion are more likely to abuse kids and the other nonsense in the newspapers today.


  • #250
    Decent Skin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Decent Skin


    PucaMama wrote: »
    There's nothing wrong with not wanting a referendum where people will be bullied into voting how others want them to.

    Sorry but that's nuts! Someone blocking a referendum is FAR worse a bully than someone campaigning during it, however misbehaved either side might be during it.


  • #251
    PucaMama
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    eviltwin wrote: »
    PucaMama wrote: »
    There's nothing wrong with not wanting a referendum where people will be bullied into voting how others want them to.

    Let's take a look shall we? I'd imagine the slurs to the keep the 8th side will revolve around comments about being anti women, holy joes etc. Not nice or mature but a lot less damaging than the emotional ****e that will come from the other side about baby killing, murder, abortion causes cancer, women who choose abortion are more likely to abuse kids and the other nonsense in the newspapers today.
    I have never heard a single other person claiming abortion makes a person more likely to be abusive, maybe because I'd pull them up on it and my friends tend to know that about me already. And a lot of people do assume pro life = religious, which is a lot like assuming pro choice = using abortion as casual contraception.


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  • #252
    PucaMama
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    Decent Skin wrote: »
    PucaMama wrote: »
    There's nothing wrong with not wanting a referendum where people will be bullied into voting how others want them to.

    Sorry but that's nuts! Someone blocking a referendum is FAR worse a bully than someone campaigning during it, however misbehaved either side might be during it.
    No, no referendum should be held that are being controlled by one section of society.


  • #253
    animaal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 815 ✭✭✭animaal


    Grayson wrote: »
    That bit I bolded..... That's not the case. You won't find a single pro choice organisation in Ireland that says that and 99.99999% of the pro choice people would disagree too.

    My quote was "My body, my choice, right up to birth. All who disagree are right-wing nutters, brainwashed by the church"

    I'd like to think you're right, and I'd like to think that that both extremes are uncommon. However, I never remember hearing "my body, my choice" being followed with a qualifier.


  • #254
    Decent Skin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Decent Skin


    PucaMama wrote: »
    No, no referendum should be held that are being controlled by one section of society.

    Would you be saying that if you won ?

    I suspect you'd be commending them for having it and allowing you to have your say and putting the issue to bed.


  • #255
    PucaMama
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    Decent Skin wrote: »
    PucaMama wrote: »
    No, no referendum should be held that are being controlled by one section of society.

    Would you be saying that if you won ?

    I suspect you'd be commending them for having it and allowing you to have your say and putting the issue to bed.
    No, I'll accept the result of any referendum that's held and whatever result is reached because that's how democracy works and i want to live in a democracy. I'd be happy I got my say anyway. However, if it was held next week, it would be pretty obviously controlled by certain people. And I would be slightly less trusting of the result.


  • #256
    The Specialist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭The Specialist


    Like most personal choices, this is one I really wish the self righteous moral guardians would stay the **** out of (and I'm not even female). These short sighted bleeding heart pricks are sickening to listen to - murder of the unborn they wail, little realising that in their logically-retarded understanding of the issue, masturbation would equal genocide. A fetus is not a human being, no matter how much you try to spin it. It is a collection of cells, full stop. You can't attach human value to it until it's viable, and until it's viable it's just a collection of cells.


  • #257
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Decent Skin wrote: »
    Yup. So they can choose not to choose abortion. It's not like the repeal affects them in any way whatsoever.

    How many people who'll never avail of gay marriage voted in favour of it last year ? How many of those would view it as "a bit weird" but decided "ah feck it, who am I to prevent someone doing it - it's not like it'll affect me" ?

    It's not as simple to say don't have an abortion because you are asking someone to ignore what they believe is the intentional killing of a young life. The only way there will be any kind of consensus is to debate when the right of life should attach to the fetus. Any other argument is simply going to ignore the fundamental belief of a pro life voter and will be ineffective in changing anything.


  • #258
    Decent Skin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Decent Skin


    PucaMama wrote: »
    No, I'll accept the result of any referendum that's held and whatever result is reached because that's how democracy works and i want to live in a democracy. I'd be happy I got my say anyway. However, if it was held next week, it would be pretty obviously controlled by certain people. And I would be slightly less trusting of the result.

    That's very easy say if you've had a veto on which ones are held!


  • #259
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,865 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    It's not as simple to say don't have an abortion because you are asking someone to ignore what they believe is the intentional killing of a young life. The only way there will be any kind of consensus is to debate when the right of life should attach to the fetus. Any other argument is simply going to ignore the fundamental belief of a pro life voter and will be ineffective in changing anything.

    Fetal viability separate from the mother seems like a reasonable place to do so. Even that would likely require intensive care for an extended duration.

    A pro-life supporter sees no area for reasonable debate. Life is sacrosanct to them, end of.


  • #260
    PucaMama
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    The Specialist wrote: »
    Like most personal choices, this is one I really wish the self righteous moral guardians would stay the **** out of (and I'm not even female). These short sighted bleeding heart pricks are sickening to listen to - murder of the unborn they wail, little realising that in their logically-retarded understanding of the issue, masturbation would equal genocide. A fetus is not a human being, no matter how much you try to spin it. It is a collection of cells, full stop. You can't attach human value to it until it's viable, and until it's viable it's just a collection of cells.
    A fetus is just an unborn human, it is of course human, when a woman gets pregnant there's more than herself to think about then. And if you think people should butt out because it's nothing to do with them that includes you because as you say ur not a woman u won't get pregnant. Or are only pro life men to **** off?


  • #261
    PucaMama
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    Decent Skin wrote: »
    PucaMama wrote: »
    No, I'll accept the result of any referendum that's held and whatever result is reached because that's how democracy works and i want to live in a democracy. I'd be happy I got my say anyway. However, if it was held next week, it would be pretty obviously controlled by certain people. And I would be slightly less trusting of the result.

    That's very easy say if you've had a veto on which ones are held!

    Only the government can stop a referendum??? Wouldn't matter what I think we will have one when they allow it. Or have I magically vetoed something without knowing??


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  • #262
    Widdershins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    PucaMama wrote: »
    Only the government can stop a referendum??? Wouldn't matter what I think we will have one when they allow it. Or have I magically vetoed something without knowing??

    Why does it matter to you if a woman has an abortion in Ireland instead of going to England for it?


  • #263
    Decent Skin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Decent Skin


    PucaMama wrote: »
    Only the government can stop a referendum??? Wouldn't matter what I think we will have one when they allow it. Or have I magically vetoed something without knowing??

    You said you don't want one. So you'll obviously vote for a government which won't have one (or more specifically vote against someone who said they'd have one) thereby contributing to the veto.


  • #264
    The Specialist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭The Specialist


    PucaMama wrote: »
    A fetus is just an unborn human, it is of course human, when a woman gets pregnant there's more than herself to think about then. And if you think people should butt out because it's nothing to do with them that includes you because as you say ur not a woman u won't get pregnant. Or are only pro life men to **** off?

    It's not a human, with that logic a volume of sperm is a country. Not human until it is formed and viable. And when I say people should butt out, I mean all those goody two shoes who know what's best for everyone else. Self appointed moral guardians, self absorbed unsufferable arseholes.


  • #265
    PucaMama
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    Decent Skin wrote: »
    PucaMama wrote: »
    Only the government can stop a referendum??? Wouldn't matter what I think we will have one when they allow it. Or have I magically vetoed something without knowing??

    You said you don't want one. So you'll obviously vote for a government which won't have one (or more specifically vote against someone who said they'd have one) thereby contributing to the veto.

    I have voted for people who would in reality allow the referendum because they would generally do more good than bad. It's not the single deciding factor in who I would vote for.


  • #266
    PucaMama
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    Widdershins wrote: »
    PucaMama wrote: »
    Only the government can stop a referendum??? Wouldn't matter what I think we will have one when they allow it. Or have I magically vetoed something without knowing??

    Why does it matter to you if a woman has an abortion in Ireland instead of going to England for it?
    The reasons behind it are what matters not the where. Aborting a child for having a disability is wrong in my opinion for example.


  • #267
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,865 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    PucaMama wrote: »
    The reasons behind it are what matters not the where. Aborting a child for having a disability is wrong in my opinion for example.

    Why is it wrong? Do you feel a life of difficulty and suffering for all involved is morally superior?


  • #268
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,865 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Is said fetus viable independent of its mother?


  • #269
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    PucaMama wrote: »
    The reasons behind it are what matters not the where. Aborting a child for having a disability is wrong in my opinion for example.

    Wrong for you maybe but if it's the right thing for someone else who is anyone to tell them they are wrong?


  • #270
    Decent Skin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Decent Skin


    PucaMama wrote: »
    I have voted for people who would in reality allow the referendum because they would generally do more good than bad. It's not the single deciding factor in who I would vote for.

    Good. And apologies for misjudging you based on only your previous posts.

    When are they allowing it so that we can put this to bed once and for all ?


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  • #271
    PucaMama
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    eviltwin wrote: »
    PucaMama wrote: »
    The reasons behind it are what matters not the where. Aborting a child for having a disability is wrong in my opinion for example.

    Wrong for you maybe but if it's the right thing for someone else who is anyone to tell them they are wrong?
    Because having a disability shouldn't stop you having a life at all


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