How do Pro Life campaigners want women who have abortions punished?

rjpf1980 · 05-09-2016 12:50AM #1

Since pro life campaigners believe abortion is murder wouldn't this mean women who abortions should be jailed for life or executed in many jurisdictions?

In Ireland this doesn't happen because women just travel to Britain and other EU countries where it is legal so no need to be arrested in Ireland.

Apart from a few crazies nobody in the referendum in the early 1990s wanted to prohibit women from travelling for an abortion abroad or accessing information on abortion.

In the ideal world Pro Life campaigners wish no where on earth would abortion be legal and for abortion to be murder. In an ideal world they would have women thrown into jail for life wouldn't they?

If you are pro life what is your view,?

RobertKK · 05-09-2016 12:52AM

Yes we needed another abortion discussion....

rjpf1980 · 05-09-2016 01:02AM

RobertKK wrote: »

Yes we needed another abortion discussion....

We clearly do because there is a politically powerful well funded vocal and well supported Pro Life movement in Ireland who are opposed to repealing the 8th Amendment.

They believe abortion is murder and accordingly must believe women should be punished.

Decent Skin · 05-09-2016 01:08AM

rjpf1980 wrote: »

We clearly do because there is a politically powerful well funded vocal and well supported Pro Life movement in Ireland who are opposed to repealing the 8th Amendment.

They believe abortion is murder and accordingly must believe women should be punished.

As long as it's a reasoned discussion without the extremists from both sides getting to hog it, it's long overdue!

Good opening question btw.

Personally I'd guess they're partially covered given their reliance on the "thou shalt not kill", therefore ruling out capital punishment, but given that - how do they want them dealt with ? Jailed for the 7 years that passes for "life" in this country ?

humberklog · 05-09-2016 01:10AM

Decent Skin wrote: »

As long as it's a reasoned discussion without the extremists from both sides getting to hog it, it's long overdue!

Good opening question btw.

Too late.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 05-09-2016 01:10AM

I don't think they do tbh.

I don't think that anybody out there embraces the reality of what an abortion is. It's a horrendous experience for any woman to go through. It's something that they will have to live for the rest of their lives.

Life is not black and white, sometimes women might need that choice to terminate the child they're carrying.

Don't forget that they're could a father suffering for it too.

Be very careful before you judge a couple who decide on an abortion

Arcade_Tryer · 05-09-2016 01:13AM

Because their arguments and beliefs ultimately stem from religious faith.

Decent Skin · 05-09-2016 01:15AM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I don't think they do tbh.

I don't think that anybody out there embraces the reality of what an abortion is. It's a horrendous experience for any woman to go through. It's something that they will have to live for the rest of their lives.

Life is not black and white, sometimes women might need that choice to terminate the child they're carrying.

Don't forget that they're could a father suffering for it too.

Be very careful before you judge a couple who decide on an abortion

Someone who commits manslaughter is also "carrying that around for the rest of their life", but they're still "punished".

Agree wholeheartedly otherwise though; it's part of the reason why we need a debate and need proper pre- and post- support services here at home, both to prevent some abortions for those who feel trapped or alone and to look after those who have made what is a damn tough and soul-searching choice.

Rainman16 · 05-09-2016 01:25AM

I believe Irish women should be able to have their abortions here in Ireland. But I don't think the cost of it should be on the tax payer.

endacl · 05-09-2016 01:28AM

If it's legal, it ain't murder.

/thread.

mansize · 05-09-2016 01:30AM

Apparently they'll get breast cancer and lots of other terrible things according to this pro-life group

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFvOoMvpJGE

Decent Skin · 05-09-2016 01:31AM

Rainman16 wrote: »

I believe Irish women should be able to have their abortions here in Ireland. But I don't think the cost of it should be on the tax payer.

Certainly not completely, but it can't be a scenario where only the rich can avail of it either, because if unplanned/unwanted kids are all in poorer families then things will get worse.

Acknowledging that many money-rich families are poorer in real terms of what really matters, but still.

Decent Skin · 05-09-2016 01:32AM

endacl wrote: »

If it's legal, it ain't murder.

/thread.

They call it that though. So if they had their way and were consistent then they'd have to punish it as such.

endacl · 05-09-2016 01:34AM

Decent Skin wrote: »

They call it that though. So if they had their way and were consistent then they'd have to punish it as such.

They couldn't though. That'd be vigilantism.

They're pro-life. They're not Batman.

Decent Skin · 05-09-2016 01:36AM

endacl wrote: »

They couldn't though. That'd be vigilantism.

They're pro-life. They're not Batman.

Not what I'm getting at. If they had their way then it'd be illegal and dealt with by the law; so it'd be an arrestable offence that they refer to as "murder". Not vigilantism.

endacl · 05-09-2016 01:39AM

Decent Skin wrote: »

Not what I'm getting at. If they had their way then it'd be illegal and dealt with by the law; so it'd be an arrestable offence that they refer to as "murder". Not vigilantism.

Well, as the procedure is generally carried out in another jurisdiction where it is legal...

Except for terminations that are occasionally carried out here, under strict conditions, and legally...

Donald Trump · 05-09-2016 01:40AM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I don't think they do tbh.

I don't think that anybody out there embraces the reality of what an abortion is. It's a horrendous experience for any woman to go through. It's something that they will have to live for the rest of their lives.

Life is not black and white, sometimes women might need that choice to terminate the child they're carrying.

Don't forget that they're could a father suffering for it too.

Be very careful before you judge a couple who decide on an abortion

Sure if you listen to people with pro-abortion stances they'd have you believe it's the easiest and quickest solution to an unwanted pregnancy.

Somewhat similar to taking a cough medicine.

endacl · 05-09-2016 01:42AM

Donald Trump wrote: »

Sure if you listen to people with pro-abortion stances they'd have you believe it's the easiest and quickest solution to an unwanted pregnancy.

Somewhat similar to taking a cough medicine.

You know, I've never met somebody with a 'pro abortion stance'. And neither have you.

Donald Trump · 05-09-2016 01:46AM

rjpf1980 wrote: »

Since pro life campaigners believe abortion is murder wouldn't this mean women who abortions should be jailed for life or executed in many jurisdictions?

In Ireland this doesn't happen because women just travel to Britain and other EU countries where it is legal so no need to be arrested in Ireland.

Apart from a few crazies nobody in the referendum in the early 1990s wanted to prohibit women from travelling for an abortion abroad or accessing information on abortion.

In the ideal world Pro Life campaigners wish no where on earth would abortion be legal and for abortion to be murder. In an ideal world they would have women thrown into jail for life wouldn't they?

If you are pro life what is your view,?

It's opening a can of worms.

Different jurisdiction, but I remember after the Omagh bombing, the family of the pregnant woman who was killed had to fight to have the unborn twins recognised in the count of the victims.

When you make a law, you need to remember that it might have consequences beyond the reason for which you want it.

Donald Trump · 05-09-2016 01:51AM

endacl wrote: »

You know, I've never met somebody with a 'pro abortion stance'. And neither have you.

Yes, I have.

As an extreme example, I met "extreme environmentalists" who think that people should not have kids and that an abortion is preferable to bringing another person into the world to drain the earths resources.

If you want to play that game of semantics, then pro-life people are not pro-forcing women to procreate either. They don't see a childless woman and think "lets force her to have a child"

endacl · 05-09-2016 01:57AM

Donald Trump wrote: »

Yes, I have.

As an extreme example, I met "extreme environmentalists" who think that people should not have kids and that an abortion is preferable to bringing another person into the world to drain the earths resources.

If you want to play that game of semantics, then pro-life people are not pro-forcing women to procreate either. They don't see a childless woman and think "lets force her to have a child"

I'd be willing to bet dollars to donuts that extreme examples are the only examples you could come up with though.

And that extreme example you gave isn't looking at the issue from the point of view of either a pro choice or pro life position. I'd imagine we can all agree that 'anti-human' is just a bonkers position.

I think we can disregard the bonkers.

And no, of course nobody would think 'let's force her to have a child'. Kinda what pro-choice is all about. Owner of the womb decides. I'm glad we can agree on that very salient point.

Decent Skin · 05-09-2016 01:58AM

Donald Trump wrote: »

It's opening a can of worms.

Different jurisdiction, but I remember after the Omagh bombing, the family of the pregnant woman who was killed had to fight to have the unborn twins recognised in the count of the victims.

When you make a law, you need to remember that it might have consequences beyond the reason for which you want it.

Her choice. Isn't it great that she had that choice ? Imagine if people were against choices ? She couldn't even fight.

And she had that choice in a "pro abortion" country :rolleyes: too!

Decent Skin · 05-09-2016 02:00AM

Donald Trump wrote: »

Yes, I have.

As an extreme example, I met "extreme environmentalists" who think that people should not have kids and that an abortion is preferable to bringing another person into the world to drain the earths resources.

If you want to play that game of semantics, then pro-life people are not pro-forcing women to procreate either. They don't see a childless woman and think "lets force her to have a child"

Actually if she's raped they're doing exactly that.

Decent Skin · 05-09-2016 02:02AM

endacl wrote: »

[b{Well, as the procedure is generally carried out in another jurisdiction where it is legal...[/b]

Except for terminations that are occasionally carried out here, under strict conditions, and legally...

Some "anti-choicers" wanted the right to travel blocked.

Donald Trump · 05-09-2016 02:04AM

endacl wrote: »

I'd be willing to bet dollars to donuts that extreme examples are the only examples you could come up with though.

And that extreme example you gave isn't looking at the issue from the point of view of either a pro choice or pro life position. I'd imagine we can all agree that 'anti-human' is just a bonkers position.

I think we can disregard the bonkers.

And no, of course nobody would think 'let's force her to have a child'. Kinda what pro-choice is all about. Owner of the womb decides. I'm glad we can agree on that very salient point.

What counts as "pro-abortion"? I would define it as someone who instinctively leans towards abortion as a method of dealing with an unwanted pregnancy without hearing the details. If you want to play semantics and say "pro-abortion" is someone who wants women to get pregnant so that they can have abortions, then yes, you won't find any.

Or maybe someone like

I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm fed up with the over-simplistic arguments. I just googled to get the above links as I was generally aware that such things exist

Donald Trump · 05-09-2016 02:07AM

Decent Skin wrote: »

Actually if she's raped they're doing exactly that.

Ehhh, try reading it again. :pac:

A "pro-lifer" sees a random childless woman on the street. They don't think that she should be raped and forced to give birth to a child.

I think that it is a scumbag thing to do to use women who have been raped as a tool to try to push your own angle. It's completely scummy and vulture-like. Do those type of people sit around in a room hoping that a woman will be raped and impregnated so that they can use her as a poster girl?

endacl · 05-09-2016 02:09AM

Donald Trump wrote: »

I'm fed up with the over-simplistic arguments.

Perhaps you ought to consider not making them in that case?

Decent Skin · 05-09-2016 02:10AM

Donald Trump wrote: »

Ehhh, try reading it again. :pac:

A "pro-lifer" sees a random childless woman on the street. They don't think that she should be raped and forced to give birth to a child.

I think that it is a scumbag thing to do to use women who have been raped as a tool to try to push your own angle. It's completely scummy and vulture-like. Do those type of people sit around in a room hoping that a woman will be raped and impregnated so that they can use her as a poster girl?

That is absolutely horrendous to see typed. I'm out.

Decent Skin · 05-09-2016 02:13AM

humberklog wrote: »

Too late.

Definitely too late now anyway.

Donald Trump · 05-09-2016 02:19AM

endacl wrote: »

Perhaps you ought to consider not making them in that case?

Like what? I didn't really make any arguments?????

At least not direct arguments against the topic proposed at the start of the thread. You might try to infer something from what I said but that is a reflection on you rather than me as you may not be correct in your assumption

Grayson · 05-09-2016 02:31AM

Donald Trump wrote: »

If you want to play that game of semantics, then pro-life people are not pro-forcing women to procreate either. They don't see a childless woman and think "lets force her to have a child"

Sure we do.

How do Pro Life campaigners want women who have abortions punished?

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