The Italian earthquake

ardinn · 24-08-2016 12:55PM

Im Just back from Italy on wednesday - Lucky me eh!

I woke up during an earthquake about a year ago - in carlow!! We do get them!! It was a bit weird!

The Backwards Man · 24-08-2016 01:03PM

Wigglepuppy wrote: »

I know. And "no one" cares in a thread where people are talking about it.

What's there to "get"?

This will probably be the biggest catastrophe in terms of loss of life and human displacement Europe will see this year, and it ain't even reached page two yet. That's what's to 'get'.

Widdershins · 24-08-2016 01:05PM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

This will probably be the biggest catastrophe in terms of loss of life and human displacement Europe will see this year, and it ain't even reached page two yet. That's what's to 'get'.

I think this is because people are helpless, it's an uncontrollable natural event and nothing to discuss in terms of preventing it from happening it again. There's not much you CAN say other than express your shock/sympathy.

The Backwards Man · 24-08-2016 01:06PM

Widdershins wrote: »

I think this is because people are helpless, it's an uncontrollable natural event and nothing to discuss in terms of preventing it from happening it again. There's not much you CAN say other than express your shock/sympathy.

Yeah, that's probably what it is alright

wakka12 · 24-08-2016 01:15PM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

This will probably be the biggest catastrophe in terms of loss of life and human displacement Europe will see this year, and it ain't even reached page two yet. That's what's to 'get'.

There is much less to discuss when its an earthquake. Its a natural disaster, it wasnt anybodys fault, nothing could be done to prevent it. With a terrorist attack, there is more to discuss as in who did it, their motive, could it have been prevented, how will we stop another occurring , did social issues such as racism or war contribute.. Also a group of terrorists massacring innocent people in some of the worlds safest cities and countries is a lot more shocking to me than an earthquake I will admit.

Widdershins · 24-08-2016 01:19PM

mYANMAR EARTHQUAKE WAS 7.1

Little CuChulainn · 24-08-2016 01:24PM

I was in Rome when the l'Aquila one hit. i think I was about 80km from the epicenter. Really strange to wake up and see the walls bending and swaying around you. I can only imagine what it must be like closer to it. My other half had the sense to get in a doorway. Would have been nice if she'd woken me up first.

RobertKK · 24-08-2016 01:25PM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

This will probably be the biggest catastrophe in terms of loss of life and human displacement Europe will see this year, and it ain't even reached page two yet. That's what's to 'get'.

I knew what you were implying.
A terrorist maybe kills less than ten people in some western European country, hundreds of pages in no time, maybe because it plays on fear, the coverage is a bit like watching a movie and people thinking, it could be themselves caught up in it, and it was intentional killing by other humans.

When I came on this morning I looked at the first page of AH for the Italian earthquake thread, then checked page two and saw none. I am not saying anything against anyone on why there was no topic given Italy is a country we are close to in many ways, but it was clear the loss of life was going to be big and the damage looks as bad if not worst than some of the bombed cities of Syria.

I got what you were saying.

The Backwards Man · 24-08-2016 01:25PM

wakka12 wrote: »

There is much less to discuss when its an earthquake. Its a natural disaster, it wasnt anybodys fault, nothing could be done to prevent it. With a terrorist attack, there is more to discuss as in who did it, their motive, could it have been prevented, how will we stop another occurring , did social issues such as racism or war contribute.. Also a group of terrorists massacring innocent people in some of the worlds safest cities and countries is a lot more shocking to me than an earthquake I will admit.

Earthquakes can't be prevented, but there's a whole hell of a lot can be done to prevent earthquake deaths, which is why i cited Chile as an example.

Flint Fredstone · 24-08-2016 01:27PM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Yeah, that's probably what it is alright

Well there's nobody to be angry with is there? There's nobody to blame. It's nothing like a suicide bombing situation but you already know that...

RobertKK · 24-08-2016 01:30PM

Widdershins wrote: »

I think this is because people are helpless, it's an uncontrollable natural event and nothing to discuss in terms of preventing it from happening it again. There's not much you CAN say other than express your shock/sympathy.

I suppose the big question here is, did the people follow the advice to reinforce their buildings with anti-seismic reinforcements as advised after the L'Aquila earthquake.
Given the devastation, for the most part one would think they did not, or if they did it was not enough.

Wigglepuppy · 24-08-2016 01:38PM

RobertKK wrote: »

I got what you were saying.

Seriously, anybody would have "got" what he was saying, it's not complicated! What's with the pretence that it's so deep?!

There was only a few posts so he threw a dig, making reference to another issue, while stating "no one" cares, as opposed to his post just oozing with care - what else could a jibe post relating to another issue be other than caring? Bingo, not much to get.

It's an horrific occurrence for the people affected by it, all the best to them. Not a whole lot more (other than discussion of the scientific side of it) to say. I don't think Italy's economy is doing so well, so how they fare in terms of aid might not be great.

wakka12 · 24-08-2016 01:38PM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Earthquakes can't be prevented, but there's a whole hell of a lot can be done to prevent earthquake deaths, which is why i cited Chile as an example.

Such as? In italy, a country dotted with thousands of ancient towns, what do you propose,clear away all their heritage and history to make the country safer with modern buildings in the case of earthquakes /
It was a powerful shallow earthquake, in a country with so many old stone and brick buildings, the level of destruction isn't really that high
Apart from completely redeveloping the entire countrys infrastructure I don't really know what else can be done to prevent earthquake deaths. The emergency services currently seem to be trying their hardest to recover trapped people.

Samaris · 24-08-2016 02:03PM

Mod: Let's be getting away from how it can be compared to terrorist attacks now, please, it's disrespectful and utterly pointless. This is a thread discussing the earthquake and does not need multiple pages of one-up-manship.

RobertKK · 24-08-2016 02:19PM

The death toll is starting to rise fast now as the recovery work continues, currently at 63.

They are saying now the earthquake was only 4km deep, so it was very shallow which makes the shaking a lot worse.
Over 2.1 million people live in the region which felt strong to severe shaking.

The only good thing is the weather, which is helping the recovery services.

Samaris · 24-08-2016 02:39PM

http://horizon-magazine.eu/sites/default/files/SHARE-map.png
Topographical map of European earthquake zones

http://f.tqn.com/y/geology/1/S/Z/j/1/europeeasteqmap.png
Geopolitical map of European earthquake zones for the people like me that are a bit hit and miss on locational geography!

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eventpage/us10006g7w#map Interactive map of the region.

Can see from the first that long train of mountains down the spine of the Italian peninsula, suggesting it's where two plates are colliding and pushing up the upper plate. Actually, that isn't the exact place the plates meet, there's three relevant ones. The Eurasian plate, bordering the African plate in North Africa is moving east, the North African (and Arabian) plates are moving roughly north. So without having time to examine it too closely, I suspect that the combined movements of the Eurasian and North African plates are causing a sort of diagonal push upwards into Europe, resulting in the NA and E plates "catching" on each other, building up pressure slowly for decades and then "snapping", jerking roughly in the direction they want to go, hence sudden and sharp earthquakes.

Italy has over 30,000 earthquakes in the last 2500 years (bearing in mind that that region has a long history of writings and recording history), with seven large ones in the 20thC. The country also leads Europe in terms of the use of anti-seismic systems (unsurprisingly!), but their geology and long history of building (including building over previous buildings) makes it harder to cope with.

RobertKK · 24-08-2016 04:10PM

At least 73 dead and all some have left to wear are the pyjamas and maybe a blanket they escaped the earthquake with.
For some they lost everything, family and friends who died and are left homeless.
The damage is so bad that there are complaints of a lack of rescue services in some areas as the routes are blocked, and many bridges have collapsed.

Irish Stones · 24-08-2016 05:15PM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

I dunno, if you look at all the quakes Italy has, they are all in the, 5.8 - 6.2 range, almost all resulting in fatalities.
Now this is the most generalistic and overly simplistic analysis ever, but Chile regularly endures earthquakes many times greater with no fatalities, even up to magnitude 8.

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Aye, true enough, but Chile has the strictest building codes on Earth too which probably helps.

Chile is a relatively young country, with modern buildings, and given its recent history of earthquakes (the quake in 1960), they started building according to newer rules and technologies and materials to prevent further catastrophes.

Italy is much more densely populated than Chile (Italy is half of Chile with 4 times its population), and most of towns still retain old buildings most of them dating back to about 200+ years ago.
How do you think that a strictest building code could help in such cases?
Since the last 40 years all new buildings have to be built following strict anti-seismic rules, depending on the area where they are being built.
Different areas have been given different seismic grade

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classificazione_sismica_dell'Italia

so, where I live the classification is low (on the border between a grey and light yellow scale), low risk of damages during or after an earthquake, and all new buildings MUST be built in order to meet these requirements or exceed them, or they CANNOT be built. The more the colour on the map goes to red, the stricter the rules are, and more expensive is to build a house. As you can see, the quake of last night was in an area with dark orange colour.
All that is older than this building code can be strengthened with actions of stabilization, but they cannot act as a brand new building.
These houses can be of medieval origins, some are made of stones and mortar.
That's the reason for the high death toll and for the great destruction.
It's history and heritage, not politics.

I am Italian, I live in Italy, I know what I'm talking about.

ThinkProgress · 24-08-2016 06:13PM

RobertKK wrote: »

I knew what you were implying.
A terrorist maybe kills less than ten people in some western European country, hundreds of pages in no time, maybe because it plays on fear, the coverage is a bit like watching a movie and people thinking, it could be themselves caught up in it, and it was intentional killing by other humans.

When I came on this morning I looked at the first page of AH for the Italian earthquake thread, then checked page two and saw none. I am not saying anything against anyone on why there was no topic given Italy is a country we are close to in many ways, but it was clear the loss of life was going to be big and the damage looks as bad if not worst than some of the bombed cities of Syria.

I got what you were saying.

We are? That's news to me...

I know we beat them in a world cup, but I don't really think we have any cultural ties with them historically.

Very few Irish will be personally affected by a tragedy in Italy. And not to be crass or anything, but sh!t happens... It's sad and unfortunate, but life marches on!

In a week or so, most that are not directly affected will simply forget about it and move on to some other news story! (there's never a shortage)

JupiterKid · 24-08-2016 06:40PM

Central Italy is prone to earthquakes so this unfortunate event is not a major surprise. Italy is located in a seismically active zone, with earthquakes and volcanoes (like Mount Etna and Vesuvius) because of plate boundaries between the African Plate and the Eurasian one.

Because so much of Italy's built heritage is historic when earthquake building codes simply didn't exist, it's not surprising that there has been considerable damage. I just hope the casualties can be kept to a minimum and that the rescue effort proceeds well.

Bio Mech · 24-08-2016 07:03PM

ThinkProgress wrote: »

We are? That's news to me...

I know we beat them in a world cup, but I don't really think we have any cultural ties with them historically.

Very few Irish will be personally affected by a tragedy in Italy. And not to be crass or anything, but sh!t happens... It's sad and unfortunate, but life marches on!

In a week or so, most that are not directly affected will simply forget about it and move on to some other news story! (there's never a shortage)

Historical and modern ignorance all in one. What a horrible crass post.

No historical ties. LOL. I am guessing your expertise goes back, what, twenty minutes? Do you frame your whole world reference to the World Cup? Sure Ireland and Scotland have no ties. We never played them in the World Cup.

ThinkProgress · 24-08-2016 07:34PM

Bio Mech wrote: »

Historical and modern ignorance all in one. What a horrible crass post.

No historical ties. LOL. I am guessing your expertise goes back, what, twenty minutes? Do you frame your whole world reference to the World Cup? Sure Ireland and Scotland have no ties. We never played them in the World Cup.

Well go on then... educate me oh wise sage!

Tell me about all the deep historical and cultural links between Italy and Ireland... I can't wait to read it. :P

Let me guess, we're both historically catholic countries right? Big deal. That doesn't mean we have close cultural links with a Latin country on the other side of europe.

Oops try again!

Stephen15 · 24-08-2016 07:47PM

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Well go on then... educate me oh wise sage!

Tell me about all the deep historical and cultural links between Italy and Ireland... I can't wait to read it. :P

Let me guess, we're both historically catholic countries right? Big deal. That doesn't mean we have close cultural links with a Latin country on the other side of europe.

Oops try again!

Well Daniel O'Connell died in Italy, James Joyce lived there, both republics influenced on the French system, both EU member states, plenty Italians living in Ireland and vice versa to a lesser extent, both have countries have large dispora lIving in mainly the US and yes religion is a huge part of historical and cultural links do some research before you make idiotic comments. What relevance does France have to Ireland and yet we were reporting on terrorist attacks there with loses of life on a similar scale.

BabyE · 24-08-2016 08:20PM

This isn't anywhere on the RTE website.

ThinkProgress · 24-08-2016 08:28PM

Stephen15 wrote: »

Well Daniel O'Connell died in Italy, James Joyce lived there, both republics influenced on the French system, both EU member states, plenty Italians living in Ireland and vice versa to a lesser extent, both have countries have large dispora lIving in mainly the US and yes religion is a huge part of historical and cultural links do some research before you make idiotic comments. What relevance does France have to Ireland and yet we were reporting on terrorist attacks there with loses of life on a similar scale.

They are not close cultural ties.

Two very old european countries, it's inevitable that there would be some interaction throughout history. But that doesn't mean that Ireland and Italy share any significant cultural ties!

In fact it would be difficult to imagine two white countries that are as culturally different as Ireland and Italy. We really share very little in common with them!

If you know anything about both our diaspora in the US, you'll know that there has been a great deal of animosity historically between the Irish and Italian communities in the US... we don't get along very well.

If you want to see genuine cultural ties, look at the countries closer to Italy. Do a little research into european history yourself. We're an Island nation on the edge of europe. The only country that we share significant cultural ties with is Britain.

(and to a much lesser extent scandinavia and a small bit of northern france)

As a nation we like to think we're friends with everyone, because we desperately want everyone to like us. (we're insecure that way and need to loved :P). But don't confuse that for us having deep cultural and historical links, because it's simply not the case!

Irish Stones · 24-08-2016 08:30PM

Stephen15 wrote: »

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Well go on then... educate me oh wise sage!

Tell me about all the deep historical and cultural links between Italy and Ireland... I can't wait to read it. :P

Let me guess, we're both historically catholic countries right? Big deal. That doesn't mean we have close cultural links with a Latin country on the other side of europe.

Oops try again!

Well Daniel O'Connell died in Italy, James Joyce lived there

St. Columbanus left Ireland to live in Italy where he founded an abbey and where he had been buried.
St. Donatus, whose image is on a stained glass in the church of Scarrif, co. Clare, moved to Italy where he became a bishop.
Apparently Fish and Chips was first sold in Ireland by an Italian migrant.
Both countries have been invaded by several different enemies who tried to conquer, bend and possess the natives, without much success, and this history has forged our attitude to something similar, both lively and prone to disrespect hard rules.
Irish and Italian flags are very similar

Probably there is more...

BabyE · 24-08-2016 08:31PM

ThinkProgress wrote: »

They are not close cultural ties.

Two very old european countries, it's inevitable that there would be some interaction throughout history. But that doesn't mean that Ireland and Italy share any significant cultural ties!

In fact it would be difficult to imagine two white countries that are as culturally different as Ireland and Italy. We really share very little in common with them!

If you know anything about both our diaspora in the US, you'll know that there has been a great deal of animosity historically between the Irish and Italian communities in the US... we don't get along very well.

If you want to see genuine cultural ties, look at the countries closer to Italy. Do a little research into european history yourself. We're an Island nation on the edge of europe. The only country that we share significant cultural ties with is Britain.

(and to a much lesser extent scandinavia and a small bit of northern france)

As a nation we like to think we're friends with everyone, because we desperately want everyone to like us. (we're insecure that way and need to loved). But don't confuse that for us having deep cultural and historical links, because it's simply not the case!

90 per cent true and some bull****. I've heard Spaniards say that feel there is a cultural affinity with the Irish based on relgion and ' our ways'. Not sure how legit this is though. But truly, as a country on the fringe of Europe separated by another island to the mainland, we were very much out of the general European story for much of our history. But its no different than how a Swede has no cultural affinity with an Italian, they are confined to having a shared bond with their European neighbours i.e Scandanavia, as you said our European tie is Britain and by extension more distantly perhaps Brittany.

bodhrandude · 24-08-2016 08:37PM

Death toll now at 120, RIP poor sods. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37171953

Widdershins · 24-08-2016 08:39PM

Irish Stones wrote: »

St. Columbanus left Ireland to live in Italy where he founded an abbey and where he had been buried.
St. Donatus, whose image is on a stained glass in the church of Scarrif, co. Clare, moved to Italy where he became a bishop.
Apparently Fish and Chips was first sold in Ireland by an Italian migrant.
Both countries have been invaded by several different enemies who tried to conquer, bend and possess the natives, without much success, and this history has forged our attitude to something similar, both lively and prone to disrespect hard rules.
Irish and Italian flags are very similar
Probably there is more...

I think some of the common Norman family names in Ireland, can be traced further back, to Tuscany.

BabyE · 24-08-2016 08:41PM

Irish Stones wrote: »

St. Columbanus left Ireland to live in Italy where he founded an abbey and where he had been buried.
St. Donatus, whose image is on a stained glass in the church of Scarrif, co. Clare, moved to Italy where he became a bishop.
Apparently Fish and Chips was first sold in Ireland by an Italian migrant.
Both countries have been invaded by several different enemies who tried to conquer, bend and possess the natives, without much success, and this history has forged our attitude to something similar, both lively and prone to disrespect hard rules.
Irish and Italian flags are very similar
Probably there is more...

This is the one we share with the southern Europeans, and its a real thing. I was friends with a load of Swiss, Germans, Austrians, all chill, cool, party types, not some square like the British stereotypes would have you believe, and they just love rules and law and order. They were bemused by the lack of punctuality in Spain and the care free attitude of the people. Ireland is changing but traditionally we'd be far closer to the southerners in this regard. The British are like the Germans and Austrians.

The Italian earthquake

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