mentally ill man stabs people shouting allahu akbar

Butters1979 wrote:

Yes. Before we know even the name of the perpetrator we seem to know their medical background. It seems the go to line of the police ( I think it's the police rather than the media ) to make it look like an isolated event that's nothing to do with Islam rather than a trend across Europe and the world which Islam is the common factor.

We don't know the medical background of any of the cases as far as I know. The last fella had a mental health history. That could be anything. Could be a bout of prolonged grief after a bereavement. Could have been signed off work for a week with stress, could gave been sectioned for having paranoid delusions and violent behaviour.

That information could have been provided by a friend or colleague who told a journalist that yer man had seen a counsellor at some point. By that understanding, I have a 'history of mental health' as I saw a counsellor a few times a few years ago. As I'm sure s lot of other people on this thread have.

I've said I don't know exactly what terrorism is so it's easy to play fast and loose with classification of an attack. If it was your job to minimise terrorists incidents then you would be quick to point out that you can't classify every mental patient going loco as terrorism if you can't rule out mental health as a causal factor.

I think the first incident is probably a case of mental health and religious extremist Terrorism. I don't know though. And I haven't attempted to excuse or minimise anything he did.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I've disagreed with that approach a number of times in this thread already. Some people seem certain it has to be terrorism. Must be because they're terrified.

And as I've said, if you classify it terrorism or mental illness or anything else it doesn't matter. It's premeditated, 'kaffur' targeting murder. Their motivations are irrelevant. Their actions and stopping them is all that matters.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

If mental health is a factor on causing it, don't you think it would be an important factor in prediction and preventing it?

We already have treatment for mental health. It's a bullsh1t excuse and a red herring.

I see a spot of 'mental health' has kicked off in Aus now. This one was hungry too. Asking for Allan's Snackbar :rolleyes:

Ooh, bite me!

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN10Z06J

Could do better. Just can't be arsed.

What I'm 'in' about is the inevitable conclusion that this guy too will have suffered 'mental issues'.

So, of course, will the next one ..... It's getting old.

It's slightly reassuring if it's down to mental issues because the whole jihad, global caliphate thing is obviously a new and very alarming situation (unless you live in the Middle East), and more likely to be a rare, isolated incident than if it's religiously motivated. I do think the police or media know this and they're trying to keep the public calm and reassured-and in a way, lying to us.

Sorry, 'Dude'. Ye obviously missed the bit where I said I " Can't be arsed'

Honestly, I'd love to see some of you guys in action, down the pub. AH: " Terrible earthquake, in Italy! "

Stigura;. " Yeah. One in India too, wasn't there? "

AH: " What are you trying to imply?! :mad: "

FFS!

Stigura wrote:

Sorry, 'Dude'. Ye obviously missed the bit where I said I " Can't be arsed'

You're rambling

Butters1979 wrote:

The title of the thread qoutes the news article that says 'mental health issues'. You are trying to argue around in circles looking to deflect from the main issue. Muslims targeting non Muslims in premeditated acts of murder.

Hold on. You've lost the run of the conversation. There are 2 cases being discussed. The thread title refers to a fella who had a history of mental health treatment. Stigura is on about a separate case where nobody has said the perpetrator has a mental health history except Stigura.

Butters1979 wrote:

Wether you of the media or anyone else calls any of them 'mental health' sufferers doesn't matter. You point we can treat it is a red herring. Mental health problems will always be around. The difference is the individual and their beliefs in the first place. You can't 'treat' a backwards culture based and hate, xenophobia and oppressions that teaches anyone not like them is fair game.

It's well known that people having a psychotic break are more likely to commit violent crimes. Are you suggesting that we shouldn't try to treat mental health issues or psychotic breaks to minimise harm?

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Hold on. You've lost the run of the conversation. There are 2 cases being discussed. The thread title refers to a fella who had a history of mental health treatment. Stigura is on about a separate case where nobody has said the perpetrator has a mental health history except Stigura.


It's well known that people having a psychotic break are more likely to commit violent crimes. Are you suggesting that we shouldn't try to treat mental health issues or psychotic breaks to minimise harm?

I have not lost the run of the conversation. Please get off your high horse. If someone disagrees with you it's not necessarily because they don't understand the issue. There are two seperste cases but they are the same issue.

I am not suggesting we do not treat people with mental illness why do you keep coming back to this. Show me were the hell I said that. I am suggesting mental health treatment will not solve the cause of these attacks. You have nothing but strawman arguments.

Butters1979 wrote:

I am not suggesting we do not treat people with mental illness why do you keep coming back to this. Show me were the hell I said that. I am suggesting mental health treatment will not solve the cause of these attacks. You have nothing but strawman arguments.

If mental health break was one of the causal factors in an attack, then how in the name of Jaysus would addressing mental health not be part of the solution?

NoCrackHaving wrote:

Indeed, I think people are confusing attempting to understand the link (if any) between mental illness and terrorism and somehow condoning the actions. Some mental illness (specifically schizophrenia ) sadly can often cause violence in its sufferers who often seem to latch onto whatever ideology is popular at the minute and hence some of the terrorism we have seen recently.

Schizophrenia is the best example and there are plenty more.

There's no end or people who think that think try to understand what causes an event is an attempt to excuse that event. I really don't know why that is. Does understanding the cause of an attack make them less angry? Less scarred? More scarred? More empathetic?

Without a doubt understanding the causes of behaviour gives us the best chance of predicting and controlling behaviour.

NoCrackHaving wrote:

Would increased mental health care decrease terrorism? Going on the stats I have to hand it seems unlikely as those with mental illness are actually significantly less likely to become involved in terrorism than the general population.

It's undoubtedly true that a tiny fraction if people with mental illness become terrorists. The more interesting question is to ask how many terrorists have mental illness.

I know the first case (the case the title refers to) was treated for mental health at some point in their life. We don't know what for though. I think one or both of the shooters in Sandy Hook school or that Dylan Roof fella, had a history of mental health. I'm not sure if many of the Muslim fellas actually had a mental health history.

Some posters are completely certain there's a mental health aspect to all/most the cases and ironically they think we should ignore it as a red herring! That's a frightening approach

Update on the murder in Australia, looks like it wasn't terrorism related, apparently the murderer told everyone he was going to marry the woman he killed and when she wasn't interested he went to her room and stabbed her. Any French speakers in the hostel said his rants had no terrorism or Islamic references and made no sense at all.

Poor lass who was murdered just because some **** couldn't handle rejection.

NoCrackHaving wrote:

Update on the murder in Australia, looks like it wasn't terrorism related, apparently the murderer told everyone he was going to marry the woman he killed and when she wasn't interested he went to her room and stabbed her. Any French speakers in the hostel said his rants had no terrorism or Islamic references and made no sense at all.

Eh, I think you'll find that the oracles quoted below know that it was all about terrorism. They didn't even need to wait for any information to be certain.

Stigura wrote:

What I'm 'in' about is the inevitable conclusion that this guy too will have suffered 'mental issues'.

Butters1979 wrote:

This thread is titled 'mentally ill man stabs people shouting allahu Akbar'. That article had someone stabbing people shouting allahu Akbar. So I think it's relevant here. Just trying to shut down the conversation again. This thread is about the recent attacks from Muslims and the very convenient trend of blaming it on mental health. The whole point is mental health isn't the issue with any of these.

Butters1979 wrote:

I have not lost the run of the conversation. Please get off your high horse. If someone disagrees with you it's not necessarily because they don't understand the issue. There are two separate cases but they are the same issue.

Thanks for the update NoCrackHaving. Information is a good thing. We'll wait and see what is found out for sure because nothing is certain at this stage.

At the moment it looks like that poor woman didn't want him and he killed her. I see another British fella is in serious condition trying to stop him.