Father sues school over sons exam results

Vic_08 · 19-08-2016 04:27PM

Candie wrote: »

But that argument isn't nearly as palatable to some people, who would prefer to dismiss the son as stupid and the father as delusional, and hope they fail, instead of commending him for addressing poor teaching that compromises kids futures. Which, imo, is a pretty spiteful way of thinking.

It's always an eye opener to see peoples prejudices at work on these threads.

Indeed.

If some posters on this thread had cared to read the link psinno posted earlier then a different story can be seen.

https://www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/school/113003

By all the metrics listed this school is performing badly, very badly.

Average point score per A level entry expressed as a grade School: D- National average: C+

Achieving at least 3 A levels at A*-E School: 35% National: 78.7%
Achieving at least 2 A levels at A*-E School: 52% National: 92.2%

Based on those stats I wouldn't be putting a child there if it were a free state school never mind paying 30k a year.

19-08-2016 04:27PM

In fairness, the school in the OP has admitted shortcomings in its teaching, and has taken steps this year to correct this.

I can sorta see merit in suing a school if those shortcomings are really egregious. Why not?

If a school has a serious problem with, say, weak teacher attendance and doesn't take steps to remedy it; or if teachers are incompetent and the school refuses to provide them with further training or replace that teacher, then absolutely, a pupil should have the right to seek redress for that.

cdeb · 19-08-2016 04:29PM

Vic_08 wrote: »

Based on those stats I wouldn't be putting a child there if it were a free state school never mind paying 30k a year.

But the father did put the kid there, for 5 or 6 years, even though the school's performance stats are public knowledge with the league tables.

Does that absolve him from all responsibility for his actions? Caveat emptor and all that.

Smondie · 19-08-2016 04:29PM

Vic_08 wrote: »

Indeed.

If some posters on this thread had cared to read the link psinno posted earlier then a different story can be seen.

https://www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/school/113003

By all the metrics listed this school is performing badly, very badly.

Average point score per A level entry expressed as a grade School: D- National average: C+

Achieving at least 3 A levels at A*-E School: 35% National: 78.7%
Achieving at least 2 A levels at A*-E School: 52% National: 92.2%

Based on those stats I wouldn't be putting a child there if it were a free state school never mind paying 30k a year.

Wouldn't it be great if there was something similar in ireland so we could be aware of schools performances ....oh i forgot the educationalists went spanner when fg suggested introducing something similar in 2011.

purplecow1977 · 19-08-2016 04:30PM

Vic_08 wrote: »

Indeed.

If some posters on this thread had cared to read the link psinno posted earlier then a different story can be seen.

https://www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/school/113003

By all the metrics listed this school is performing badly, very badly.

Average point score per A level entry expressed as a grade School: D- National average: C+

Achieving at least 3 A levels at A*-E School: 35% National: 78.7%
Achieving at least 2 A levels at A*-E School: 52% National: 92.2%

Based on those stats I wouldn't be putting a child there if it were a free state school never mind paying 30k a year.

Thankfully such a system of 'comparing schools' doesn't exist in Ireland - and I hope never seeps through! Although we do have a fair habit of copying the UK..... even in things that have failed for them!

Vic_08 · 19-08-2016 04:37PM

cdeb wrote: »

But the father did put the kid there, for 5 or 6 years, even though the school's performance stats are public knowledge with the league tables.

Does that absolve him from all responsibility for his actions? Caveat emptor and all that.

Do you know that the school was performing poorly in the years prior to him enrolling his son?

Smondie · 19-08-2016 04:39PM

cdeb wrote: »

But the father did put the kid there, for 5 or 6 years, even though the school's performance stats are public knowledge with the league tables.

Does that absolve him from all responsibility for his actions? Caveat emptor and all that.

Performance stats of the school public, performance of child known to parent, really no excuse for him to be cribbing now.

cdeb · 19-08-2016 04:41PM

Vic_08 wrote: »

Do you know that the school was performing poorly in the years prior to him enrolling his son?

Well the stats linked show it was performing poorly in the couple of years previous anyway, giving him plenty of options to change school, arrange grinds, help the kid himself, etc.

steddyeddy · 19-08-2016 04:41PM

purplecow1977 wrote: »

Thankfully such a system of 'comparing schools' doesn't exist in Ireland - and I hope never seeps through! Although we do have a fair habit of copying the UK..... even in things that have failed for them!

There isn't as big a two-tier system in Irish education as in the UK. Long may it be.

Vic_08 · 19-08-2016 04:43PM

purplecow1977 wrote: »

Thankfully such a system of 'comparing schools' doesn't exist in Ireland - and I hope never seeps through! Although we do have a fair habit of copying the UK..... even in things that have failed for them!

Why, do you think it unreasonable that parents have facts rather than parish rumour to judge the best schools for their children?

I, like most Irish students of a similar age had a pretty poor experience of education. Some excellent teachers but plenty of average to grossly incompetent ones.

An obsession with league tables can go too far but the opposite where poor performance of schools and individual teachers is allowed to go unchecked is much worse.

Smondie · 19-08-2016 04:44PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

There isn't as big a two-tier system in Irish education as in the UK. Long may it be.

The UK has many different bodies supplying the same level of exams eg salters, ocr etc

In Ireland it's the same exam for each student following the same curriculum. A comparison of schools would be easy and fairer than in the UK.

cdeb · 19-08-2016 04:44PM

Vic_08 wrote: »

I, like most Irish students of a similar age had a pretty poor experience of education. Some excellent teachers but plenty of average to grossly incompetent ones.

Like most Irish students of a similar age?

Pretty wild generalisation there.

How do you arrive at that conclusion?

19-08-2016 04:45PM

Vic_08 wrote: »

Do you know that the school was performing poorly in the years prior to him enrolling his son?

And the headmaster could have sold him with the assurances that all the problems had been addressed, they had a plan in place to rectify the issues, they had a new dynamic staff, new facilities, etc., etc.

Few fathers, especially those who have to leave the country and drive lorries abroad to afford it, would deliberately send their son to a failing school expecting no improvements to be made.

I feel bad for the guy, he worked very hard to afford it for his boy and could have been brushed off by staff for years but kept at it because his son might have been enjoying it, even if he wasn't doing well at the academic side.

We just don't know, and it's not fair to make unflattering assumptions about the father and son we know little about. What we do know is that the school was underperforming.

purplecow1977 · 19-08-2016 04:53PM

Vic_08 wrote: »

Why, do you think it unreasonable that parents have facts rather than parish rumour to judge the best schools for their children?

I, like most Irish students of a similar age had a pretty poor experience of education. Some excellent teachers but plenty of average to grossly incompetent ones.

An obsession with league tables can go too far but the opposite where poor performance of schools and individual teachers is allowed to go unchecked is much worse.

I think it unreasonable to fit children into an academic box, when not all children are suited.

There's more to life than education - says the teacher!

Oh! And can you define 'the best school' as referenced in your first statement? That'd be much appreciated!

Smondie · 19-08-2016 04:54PM

Candie wrote: »

And the headmaster could have sold him with the assurances that all the problems had been addressed, they had a plan in place to rectify the issues, they had a new dynamic staff, new facilities, etc., etc.

Few fathers, especially those who have to leave the country and drive lorries abroad to afford it, would deliberately send their son to a failing school expecting no improvements to be made.

I feel bad for the guy, he worked very hard to afford it for his boy and could have been brushed off by staff for years but kept at it because his son might have been enjoying it, even if he wasn't doing well at the academic side.

We just don't know, and it's not fair to make unflattering assumptions about the father and son we know little about. What we do know is that the school was underperforming.

Well that's a choice he made if he knew the school and his son were not performing. He chose the social aspect over the academic. He has no complaint now if he never addressed it before.

19-08-2016 04:58PM

Smondie wrote: »

Well that's a choice he made if he knew the school and his son were not performing. He chose the social aspect over the academic. He has no complaint now if he never addressed it before.

He has every right to complain if the teaching was inadequate.

All parents do, both public and private schools should be held to account for poor teaching.

If this was a public school, nobody would consider it a story and would probably call the dad a hero for not accepting less than the best for his kid.

purplecow1977 · 19-08-2016 05:01PM

Candie wrote: »

He has every right to complain if the teaching was inadequate.

All parents do, both public and private schools should be held to account for poor teaching.

If this was a public school, nobody would consider it a story and would probably call the dad a hero for not accepting less than the best for his kid.

You have to admit it's a little too late though.

His son attended for 5 years - when did his unhappiness with the teaching begin ? When did the poor results start? If this has been ongoing, then you'd wonder why it took so long to complain or why he didn't transfer his son to another school? If it's only a recent thing, can you really blame the teachers? I guess we don't have all the facts here.

Smondie · 19-08-2016 05:01PM

Candie wrote: »

He has every right to complain if the teaching was inadequate.

All parents do, both public and private schools should be held to account for poor teaching.

If this was a public school, nobody would consider it a story and would probably call the dad a hero for not accepting less than the best for his kid.

No complaints for 5 years and when the son fails start sueing ?

Nope he should have been more involved and interested in his sons education. You can't just wash your hands of your child's education and take the line of I paid someone else so he should have gotten a's.

19-08-2016 05:10PM

Smondie wrote: »

No complaints for 5 years and when the son fails start sueing ?

Nope he should have been more involved and interested in his sons education. You can't just wash your hands of your child's education and take the line of I paid someone else so he should have gotten a's.

We don't know what complaints or assurances the school gave. We DO know they admitted to failings.

He worked abroad to afford his kids education. It's hard to attend the PTA meetings in England when you're in the Middle East. It's hardly washing your hands of your childs education.

The line he's taking is that if he buys a service and that service is grossly below the standard expected, then there is something that needs to be done in the name of fairness. It's not exactly unreasonable.

But you know it's easier to say he's a stupid parent with a thick kid, he threw money at his education, but didn't care how he was doing. Which sums up the other side of the argument, in spite of the school admitting it's shortcomings.

Smondie · 19-08-2016 05:12PM

Candie wrote: »

We don't know what complaints or assurances the school gave. We DO know they admitted to failings.

He worked abroad to afford his kids education. It's hard to attend the PTA meetings in England when you're in the Middle East. It's hardly washing your hands of your childs education.

The line he's taking is that if he buys a service and that service is grossly below the standard expected, then there is something that needs to be done in the name of fairness. It's not exactly unreasonable.

But you know it's easier to say he's a stupid parent with a thick kid, he threw money at his education, but didn't care how he was doing. Which sums up the other side of the argument, in spite of the school admitting it's shortcomings.

Well if parents can't be bothered to attend parent teacher meetings because they have more important things to be doing, they are not that interested.

19-08-2016 05:14PM

Smondie wrote: »

Well if parents can't be bothered to attend parent teacher meetings because they have more important things to be doing, they are not that interested.

Yes, it appears this man was busy working.

The school admitted shortcomings, but lets blame the hard-working lorry driver without knowing all the facts.

Seems fair.

Smondie · 19-08-2016 05:16PM

Candie wrote: »

Yes, it appears this man was busy working.

The school admitted shortcomings, but lets blame the hard-working lorry driver without knowing all the facts.

Seems fair.

If the excuse is being used that he was too busy working to be interested, maybe he should sit down and think about why he had a child in the first place. Earning less but being at home and involved in his child's education might of had better results for him.

cdeb · 19-08-2016 05:16PM

Candie wrote: »

blame the hard-working lorry driver

He's hard-working now?

19-08-2016 05:20PM

I guess it's the way of the thread to judge the dad, who apparently was doing his best for his kid, and even question why he has a kid at all rather than take on board one of the few facts we actually know - that the school admitted failings.

I'll leave you to it.

I'll wait until all the facts are available before I label the dad a lazy, disinterested parent who probably shouldn't have ever had a kid.

cdeb · 19-08-2016 05:24PM

You're right to not judge a whole story by a newspaper article, but the comments attributed to the dad really don't paint him in a good light in fairness. I think that's what a lot of people are basing things on, not just an attitude of "the guy sueing must be at fault"

Elliott S · 19-08-2016 05:27PM

Candie wrote: »

If results at the school were poor generally, it's fair to say that the service the parents paid for wasn't delivered.

In any other area of life, if we pay for something and don't get what we pay for nobody minds if the provider is taken to task for not delivering. When it comes to parents though, it's fair game to make assumptions about both them and their kids.

Especially when you're talking about something seen as elitist, like private education.

Wouldn't you look into the results from the school before sending your children there? I know it said the results were down that year but you'd need to look at the results of a few years to spot a trend. If the results of a number of years were poor, don't send your children there. If it's just that year, well further investigation is required as all kind of factors could be responsible. And you can have a great teacher but that doesn't matter if you don't put in the work. Teachers can't force a student to study. No real conclusion can be drawn from one year of lower than average results.

Elliott S · 19-08-2016 05:32PM

foggy_lad wrote: »

Back then an A was worth something, they are ten a penny now!

AFAIK, As were always 85% and above?

So back then an A was 85%+, now it's A2 is 85-90%, A1 is 90%+. The A grade has just been split into two levels. The perecentage required to get an A hasn't been lowered.

LoLth · 19-08-2016 05:38PM

The dad worked (past tense) as a trucker in the middle east to raise the money for his son's education.

The dad is now retired

The son has achieved a merit in his college course in his second semester - when were the GCSEs? this must have been from last year then.

So to say that the dad was away working is a guess, he could have retired before his son even started school there and the money was earned while the son was younger against his future education. Actually nowhere in that article does it state that the father was absentee or not informed about his sons academic record (it doesn't mention if the result was a complete surprise to anyone or if it was just "disheartening")

The dad's comments do indeed make him sound like a bit of a dick but going by the standard of reporting of the rest of the "facts" I'm not sure I'd take even those at face value.

nowhere does the article mention the schools correspondence with the parents or lack of notification.

a lot of what has been posted in this thread has merit but the majority, while good points, are posted on assumptions taken from a vaguely written story (deliberately vague or just badly reported?).

can anyone show any evidence anywhere (not just in that article) that the father was not involved in the sons education, that the father was absent throughout the 5 years the son attended the school, whether the son was a day school or a boarder and whether or not the school gave any indication of the sons under performance at any stage over the course of the five years ? or is all of this just speculation being stated as fact?

Elliott S · 19-08-2016 05:45PM

Candie wrote: »

But that argument isn't nearly as palatable to some people, who would prefer to dismiss the son as stupid and the father as delusional, and hope they fail, instead of commending him for addressing poor teaching that compromises kids futures. Which, imo, is a pretty spiteful way of thinking.

It's always an eye opener to see peoples prejudices at work on these threads.

Candie, it's hardly prejudice to consider all factors in what might have caused the problem and rather judgmental to portray people as small-minded for doing so. And like it or not, a huge part of education is parental support and the individual putting in an effort themselves. Even my very best teachers in school had students who received poor results. There's only so much you can do to inspire.

ednwireland · 19-08-2016 05:49PM

You throw your kids into a private boarding school so you don't have to do any work bringing up your kids.
Im not suprise he's Sueing for bad grades

Father sues school over sons exam results

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