The beginning of the end for taxi drivers

eeguy · 19-08-2016 03:19PM

Dravokivich wrote: »

Vagaries of the meter?

What don't you understand about how it works.

On the Hailo app you know the total fare before you get into the taxi.

On the meter system, you get charged for sitting in traffic, or if the driver chooses a different route that just happens to cost more for whatever reason.
You can only know a rough estimate.

I know that from the local to my house can cost anywhere from €10 - €14 by meter.
It will be €12 give or take 50c on Hailo and I know this before I even book the taxi.

The Backwards Man · 19-08-2016 03:20PM

Jawgap wrote: »

except you are assuming the cost base will be the same.....it won't. Automated vehicles can pretty much remain on the road 24/7 and just be taken out for refuelling and occasional maintenance.

"Algorithms" will be able to price in the full cost of any journey (including assigning a value to the opportunity cost) and quote the punter a price before they get in - no more relying on the vagaries of the meter or the whims of the driver

The vagaries of surge pricing wouldn't bother you though?

Dyr · 19-08-2016 03:23PM

They're trialling automated mini buses in helsinki and holland at the moment

Speed the day

Of course automation will fall foul of that perennial pigeon of the roads, the irish cyclist

beach_walker · 19-08-2016 03:23PM

Dravokivich wrote: »

Vagaries of the meter?

What don't you understand about how it works.

True. Last two taxis I've gotten in Ireland had the meter turned off.

the_syco · 19-08-2016 03:23PM

Arsemageddon wrote: »

At last - a taxi you can puke in without a soiling charge.

Imagine the puke swirling around on the ground when the next person steps in.

Perhaps one of those people not wearing any shoes... :pac:

Dyr · 19-08-2016 03:25PM

Jawgap wrote: »

No, it's faith in technology to make the connections and handle the transaction.

You only have to look at the success of something like ebay to see that it's a small step from selling goods to selling services (airbnb)

no way you can compare airbnb which is little more than a scam to avoid the costs associated with legal and regulatory requirements of a proper service with something like vehicle automation

mgbgt1978 · 19-08-2016 03:38PM

eeguy wrote: »

On the Hailo app you know the total fare before you get into the taxi.

On the meter system, you get charged for sitting in traffic, or if the driver chooses a different route that just happens to cost more for whatever reason.
You can only know a rough estimate.

I know that from the local to my house can cost anywhere from €10 - €14 by meter.
It will be €12 give or take 50c on Hailo and I know this before I even book the taxi.

Hailo give an estimated fare based on the length of the journey and using exactly the same charging system as programmed into the meter.
In fact, Hailo journeys are charged using the meter.
The only difference is that Hailo do not allow for a €2 call-out charge. If you phone for a Taxi from your local you will most likely be charged this €2.
The only reason Hailo do not like their drivers charging this call-out fee is simply because they are not a Licenced Despatch Operator, and if the call-out fee was charged it could influence the Taxi Regulator's decision to not consider them to be a despatch operator.

mgbgt1978 · 19-08-2016 03:46PM

Mr.S wrote: »

Great. Irish taxis & drivers are awful.

A bit of a general statement......

.....by your logic all "gigs and events" Mods could be considered bigoted Idiots.

Unless you've travelled in every single Taxi in Ireland, which, lets face it, is unlikely.

The Backwards Man · 19-08-2016 03:54PM

Bambi wrote: »

no way you can compare airbnb which is little more than a scam to avoid the costs associated with legal and regulatory requirements of a proper service with something like vehicle automation

Uber and Airbnb are exactly the same as it stands, the middleman in a peer to peer arrangement that flaunts as many regulations as it can to keep down costs. Uber sees automation as the opportunity to become the service provider without the hindrance of labour costs. If Airbnb can figure out a way to service its own apartment blocks on the cheap it wouldn't be long following suit.

Fleawuss · 19-08-2016 04:17PM

Monorail!

Only messing. Autonomous will be big.

But monorail.

Dyr · 19-08-2016 04:19PM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Uber and Airbnb are exactly the same as it stands, the middleman in a peer to peer arrangement that flaunts as many regulations as it can to keep down costs.

Did I mention Uber in my post?

No.

The Backwards Man · 19-08-2016 04:24PM

Bambi wrote: »

Did I mention Uber in my post?

No.

You mentioned vehicle automation in your post, and Uber are at the head of the pack.

Dyr · 19-08-2016 04:32PM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

You mentioned vehicle automation in your post, and Uber are at the head of the pack.

Are they f**k, this technology has been around long before Uber. Uber are just another shower of **** heels looking to make easy money by circumventing business and employment law, different thing entirely. Automation is an entirely different thing

The Backwards Man · 19-08-2016 04:36PM

Bambi wrote: »

Are they f**k, this technology has been around long before Uber. Uber are just another shower of **** heels looking to make easy money by circumventing business and employment law, different thing entirely. Automation is an entirely different thing

Aye fair enough, I agree with you there, but it can't be denied that they are at the forefront of the development of autonomous cars at the minute, and their motivation for being there would make a Bond villain blush!

KungPao · 19-08-2016 04:36PM

The Walkinstown roundabout would be fun at rush hour. Just a load of automated cars stuck going around and around like Clark Griswold in England.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAgX6qlJEMc

Iwasfrozen · 19-08-2016 04:39PM

So long!

No industry should be protected from progress.

mgbgt1978 · 19-08-2016 04:41PM

Bambi wrote: »

Are they f**k, this technology has been around long before Uber. Uber are just another shower of **** heels looking to make easy money by circumventing business and employment law, different thing entirely. Automation is an entirely different thing

Seeing as Google (possibly the main protagonist for self-driving cars) purchased 7 per cent of Uber in 2013, I'd say that Uber are certainly in bed with the "head of the pack".

end of the road · 19-08-2016 04:44PM

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Autonomous vehicles in Ireland are decades away. We still have a driver for our trains that travel in one direction with absolutely no traffic to deal with.

bar other trains, level crossings, dip****s who think they can run infront of the train and get across before it hits them, and a lot more. you are correct though, this tech won't be in main stream service on any vehicle (bar the usual enclosed areas where it is existing and future such builds) for decades if not more.

eeguy wrote: »

Plenty of autonomous trains in the world.

on enclosed fully segregated systems with public access from platforms only. i have explained this to you before and will keep doing so, because you either don't seem to get it or are just deliberately dismissing facts.

eeguy wrote: »

We don't have them here because IE have no interest in getting them. Cost of investing in new stock, upgrading the lines plus dealing with all the union BS.

no we don't have them because the nature of heavy rail networks mean such systems cannot operate. not only is it nothing to do with non union bs, but it would cost trillions to upgrade the heavy rail network to meet the requirements of a driverless segregated enclosed system. simply throwing new stock onto it doesn't make the network fit for it.

eeguy wrote: »

It's not like a private company can start it's own service either, since IE have a monopoly.

absolute rubbish. any private operator can come in on our network, they have been able to for years. in fact, the luxury train operator belmond is starting this year (okay not quite the same thing as operating normal services but it's proof private operators can come in here)
the reason you will be unlikely to see private operators operating normal passenger services is because unless we are paying them subsidies also (i'm not talking about the small subsidy we give IE, i'm talking about a billion at least) it's not financially viable. even if we replaced IE with only private operators for example the costs would go up hugely. britain is proof of how all models of rail privatization and tendering and other similar models work, they have tried them all and they all have failed.

eeguy wrote: »

Big difference when it comes to road. The govt own them and don't care what drives on them provided it meets EU standards.

yes because the roads have the space. the rail network does not have the space for all and sundry, unless you are quad tracking every single bit of line (which i wouldn't object to myself) but it's not going to happen.

end of the road · 19-08-2016 04:49PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

So long!

No industry should be protected from progress.

if it means a bigger wellfare bill, then it definitely should be protected from so called "progress"

Jawgap · 19-08-2016 04:51PM

Dravokivich wrote: »

Vagaries of the meter?

What don't you understand about how it works.

Ah here you don't honestly believe meters are tamper proof? That once metrology have sealed them the seal can't be broken adjustments made and re-sealed with bogey seals?

Jawgap · 19-08-2016 04:53PM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

The vagaries of surge pricing wouldn't bother you though?

No because I'd have the price in advance and I'd be doing the deal before I engage the service rather than the current model which leaves settling the price at the wrong end of the transaction.......or right end, if your a driver

Iwasfrozen · 19-08-2016 04:55PM

end of the road wrote: »

if it means a bigger wellfare bill, then it definitely should be protected from so called "progress"

Might have to cut welfare then.

And no, we should never try to twart the development of technology to protect jobs.

BrokenArrows · 19-08-2016 05:02PM

bb1234567 wrote: »

Yeh true but taxis arent that expensive really. 10-15 euro usually for me for any trip I take in Dublin with them, if they are less than 70% of human taxi driver costs then I would go with uber

Lucky for some who think 10-15 euro is cheap for a quick journey in a taxi.

Ive done a lot of traveling and some countries simply have reasonable taxi rates.

In certain countries being a taxi driver is seen as unskilled labor and the driver will earn not much more than minimum wage. Which to be honest is the way it should be. Anyone who has a driving license and a sat nav can be a taxi driver. (Uber proves this point) So taxi prices reflect this by being reasonable.

Moscow for example. You can take an Uber from the airport to the city centre for 13 euro (about an hours journey at least). Granted the currency has taken a dive but even if we double the rate 26 euro is still very very good value. A quick spin 10 minutes down the road in the city centre will set you back about 2-3 euro.

However in certain countries being a taxi driver seems to warrant a very good wage. Black Cab drivers in London take in around £50k. Dublin drivers around €30k

eeguy · 19-08-2016 05:03PM

end of the road wrote: »

bar other trains, level crossings, dip****s who think they can run infront of the train and get across before it hits them, and a lot more. you are correct though, this tech won't be in main stream service on any vehicle (bar the usual enclosed areas where it is existing and future such builds) for decades if not more.

I think you should read my post again, you actually agreed with several of my points, ie, autonomous segregated trains, trillions to upgrade ect.
Granted I didn't know about private companies, but the same situation regarding space to operate and test still applies.
I'm well aware autonomy wont happen to rail for decades.

But with regards to road use, it's being tested currently and those tests are constantly increasing in scope, as shown in the link in post no. 1.

It was reported today that Audi committed to the 2021 release of an autonomous car, similar to Ford's claim. Even if these cars are only 80% autonomous, to get around various legal hurdles, it's still a revolution in terms of motoring.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 19-08-2016 05:03PM

On a simple personal level I've always balked at the idea because I love cars and driving. I could never see myself wanting an autonomous car.

mgbgt1978 · 19-08-2016 05:07PM

Jawgap wrote: »

Ah here you don't honestly believe meters are tamper proof? That once metrology have sealed them the seal can't be broken adjustments made and re-sealed with bogey seals?

The meter Importers keep a strict control on who they will even sell their updated programs to. There simply isn't the return to be made from attempting to rewrite a meter program (which is different for each meter manufacturer, and usually each meter model).
The tamper-proof seals are individually numbered and the Taxi regulator's Enforcement Officers have access to this database at their fingertips.
A lot of their inspections involve simply getting into a Taxi and asking the driver to take them on a relatively short trip.
If the fare increases before reaching 500m they will prosecute the driver. If the fare increases by an amount that does not tally with their GPS Fare App they will prosecute the Driver.
And if the Driver refuses to take them on the short trip requested ......
Oh, and Metrology don't seal them, Applus+ do.

.....but this has nothing to do with this thread.

motorfan · 19-08-2016 05:15PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Might have to cut welfare then.

And no, we should never try to twart the development of technology to protect jobs.

So what of the people who have become obsolete due to progress?
How will they live, or their families?

I think the the people who have this attitude towards progress at all costs, never seem to suffer from the "progress" they envision.

Statements like "might have to cut welfare then" just sound pompous, and I do not think that it would be classed as progress.

iamtony · 19-08-2016 05:15PM

BrokenArrows wrote: »

Lucky for some who think 10-15 euro is cheap for a quick journey in a taxi.

Ive done a lot of traveling and some countries simply have reasonable taxi rates.

In certain countries being a taxi driver is seen as unskilled labor and the driver will earn not much more than minimum wage. Which to be honest is the way it should be. Anyone who has a driving license and a sat nav can be a taxi driver. (Uber proves this point) So taxi prices reflect this by being reasonable.

Moscow for example. You can take an Uber from the airport to the city centre for 13 euro (about an hours journey at least). Granted the currency has taken a dive but even if we double the rate 26 euro is still very very good value. A quick spin 10 minutes down the road in the city centre will set you back about 2-3 euro.

However in certain countries being a taxi driver seems to warrant a very good wage. Black Cab drivers in London take in around £50k. Dublin drivers around €30k

What's the average wage in Moscow?

Iwasfrozen · 19-08-2016 05:21PM

motorfan wrote: »

So what of the people who have become obsolete due to progress?
How will they live, or their families?

I think the the people who have this attitude towards progress at all costs, never seem to suffer from the "progress" they envision.

Statements like "might have to cut welfare then" just sound pompous, and I do not think that it would be classed as progress.

They retrain, we need to move away from the concept of working in the same industry all your life.

Cutting welfare if it happened would be a necessity.

Icepick · 19-08-2016 05:23PM

Hopefully sooner rather than later

The beginning of the end for taxi drivers

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