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Father sues school over sons exam results

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Comments

  • #2
    Winterlong
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭Winterlong


    Its a UK story. Are you complaining about their education system, our education system or the boy's father?
    If I was better educated I would understand.


  • #3
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,219 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I can't read the article, but if he paid for top notch education and the kids teachers were all disinterested and inept wasters, then more power to him.

    If he's offloading responsibility for a lazy son, then it's a different story.


  • #4
    cdeb
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,666 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    The father wrote:
    The money I spent could have paid for a house for him when he turns 18
    The father sounds like a right twat - one of those who thinks throwing money at a child = good parenting.


  • #5
    The King of Moo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭The King of Moo


    He should sue Yeats for not coming up too.


  • #6
    Smondie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭Smondie


    Winterlong wrote: »
    Its a UK story. Are you complaining about their education system, our education system or the boy's father?
    If I was better educated I would understand.
    The fathers attitude to his sons edcation. I paid for A's mentality.

    And pointing out that the sons E's would gain him points here in Ireland from next year as we are so eager to dumb down education.

    We are sending our children to school for longer now, most start institutionalising them at 3 in pre school, yet we have lowered our expectations of what can be achieved by them.


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  • #7
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,219 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If results at the school were poor generally, it's fair to say that the service the parents paid for wasn't delivered.

    In any other area of life, if we pay for something and don't get what we pay for nobody minds if the provider is taken to task for not delivering. When it comes to parents though, it's fair game to make assumptions about both them and their kids.

    Especially when you're talking about something seen as elitist, like private education.


  • #8
    irelandrover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,113 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    Smondie wrote: »
    The fathers attitude to his sons edcation. I paid for A's mentality.

    And pointing out that the sons E's would gain him points here in Ireland from next year as we are so eager to dumb down education.

    Will offering points for an E not encourage more people to take higher level, increasing the education level.

    I know lot of people capable of a C at higher were afraid a bad paper would screw them over, and hence dropped down


  • #9
    realdanbreen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,311 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    I know that the majority of teachers do a good job but the fact remains that teaching is one of the most un accountable jobs that it is possible to have. You can be an incompent or uninterested teacher and there will be no repercussions just tough titty for the student and their class.


  • #10
    RWCNT
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,430 ✭✭✭RWCNT


    I originally read this as "Father sues son over exam results", disappointed now.


  • #11
    Smondie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭Smondie


    irelandrover wrote: »
    Smondie wrote: »
    The fathers attitude to his sons edcation. I paid for A's mentality.

    And pointing out that the sons E's would gain him points here in Ireland from next year as we are so eager to dumb down education.

    Will offering points for an E not encourage more people to take higher level, increasing the education level.

    I know lot of people capable of a C at higher were afraid a bad paper would screw them over, and hence dropped down
    An E is 39% - 25%. Rewards for knowing a quarter of the syllabus?


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  • #12
    Penny Tration
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    Candie wrote: »
    If results at the school were poor generally, it's fair to say that the service the parents paid for wasn't delivered.

    In any other area of life, if we pay for something and don't get what we pay for nobody minds if the provider is taken to task for not delivering. When it comes to parents though, it's fair game to make assumptions about both them and their kids.

    Especially when you're talking about something seen as elitist, like private education.

    Yeah, I'm wondering about this myself.

    The school's results as a whole were down fof that year. If everybody got lower grades and more failures than previous years, there's something going wrong in the teaching of the subjects.


  • #13
    Dirty Dingus McGee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    From the article.
    ”David was disheartened when he got his results. He said 'you spent all that money on my education and I walk away with one GCSE'.

    Yeah.I can really see a 17 year old actually saying that.

    Hopefully the verdict comes back as "Your son is a dopey ****er, now piss off and stop wasting any more of my time".


  • #14
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Smondie wrote: »
    The father wants his fees returned as his son failed to achieve good marks in his exams.

    No personal responsibility is been taken. It's not the sons fault for not engaging in the education being offered, it's not the fathers fault for being an absent parent, no it's the school's fault.

    The son got a c and a few e's. In Ireland next year they are going to start awarding points for e's on higher level papers. The dumbing down of the education state to suit the special snowflake brigade is shocking.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/father-sues-private-school-abbotsholme-independent-rocester-son-fails-all-but-one-gcses-a7195716.html

    When I did my LC there were nono of these arty farty A1 A2 B1,2,3 etc, You got an A, B, C, D,or E.

    Also I noticed when the results come out now there are thousands getting several A1's, way back in the late 80s only the brightest few(2 or 3) in the country got all A's and there was only ever a few A's given in higher English!

    Back then an A was worth something, they are ten a penny now!


  • #15
    Smondie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭Smondie


    Penny Tration wrote: »
    Candie wrote: »
    If results at the school were poor generally, it's fair to say that the service the parents paid for wasn't delivered.

    In any other area of life, if we pay for something and don't get what we pay for nobody minds if the provider is taken to task for not delivering. When it comes to parents though, it's fair game to make assumptions about both them and their kids.

    Especially when you're talking about something seen as elitist, like private education.

    Yeah, I'm wondering about this myself.

    The school's results as a whole were down fof that year. If everybody got lower grades and more failures than previous years, there's something going wrong in the teaching of the subjects.
    There was a high number of children with special needs enrolled in that year.


  • #16
    valoren
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,706 ✭✭✭valoren


    For £28,000 a YEAR you'd certainly want a return on investment.


  • #17
    irelandrover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,113 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    Smondie wrote: »
    An E is 39% - 25%. Rewards for knowing a quarter of the syllabus?

    Offering points for an E means that more people will take the higher level. A lot of people are capable of higher than a D at higher but drop down out of fear. So i'd look at it as not rewarding and E but encouraging more people to stick with the higher level.


  • #18
    Smondie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭Smondie


    realdanbreen wrote: »
    I know that the majority of teachers do a good job but the fact remains that teaching is one of the most un accountable jobs that it is possible to have. You can be an incompent or uninterested teacher and there will be no repercussions just tough titty for the student and their class.
    In the UK it's more accountable than here. The teachers here fight tooth and nail to be kept as unaccountable as possible.


  • #19
    3rdDegree
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,266 ✭✭✭3rdDegree


    The father paid huge money for a service he feels was not delivered. The fact that results overall were poor and the principle acknowledges that improvements had to be made as a result kind of backs up the father's case. He seems to have made sacrifices and worked very hard to pay for the education he wanted his son to have. I think that commendable. He had every right to sue.


  • #20
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Smondie wrote: »
    There was a high number of children with special needs enrolled in that year.

    Integrating special needs students and those with poor english into mainstream classes is responsible for a reduction in what students are achieving as teachers are unable to deliver the same to the majority of students because a few need so much extra attention. this is being countered by easier marking and subtle changes to the curriculum to make it all that much easier and make the falling class averages seem higher.


  • #21
    Smondie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭Smondie


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Smondie wrote: »
    There was a high number of children with special needs enrolled in that year.

    Integrating special needs students and those with poor english into mainstream classes is responsible for a reduction in what students are achieving as teachers are unable to deliver the same to the majority of students because a few need so much extra attention. this is being countered by easier marking and subtle changes to the curriculum to make it all that much easier and make the falling class averages seem higher.
    Most special needs have now sna's in England, so the teacher has more help than ever before. Even in Ireland sna's are more prevalent than before.


    Would you suggest separating the special needs pupils in to a separate school?


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  • #22
    Dirty Dingus McGee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    3rdDegree wrote: »
    The father paid huge money for a service he feels was not delivered. The fact that results overall were poor and the principle acknowledges that improvements had to be made as a result kind of backs up the father's case. He seems to have made sacrifices and worked very hard to pay for the education he wanted his son to have. I think that commendable. He had every right to sue.


    How can they prove the teachers were to blame?

    The school were idiotic to even listen to him or even admit there might have been an issue.

    Is every other parent suing ?

    Maybe he needs to tell his son to take some responsibility for his own results.

    Surey if the teaching as so bad this would have been noticeable by the son well before he took his exams and he could have asked to leave.Seeing as he was so concerned with his own education and it's cost (at least accrding to the article that is).

    You can take a horse to water but you can't make him drink.


  • #23
    looksee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 31,693 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    Most special needs have now sna's in England, so the teacher has more help than ever before. Even in Ireland sna's are more prevalent than before.


    Would you suggest separating the special needs pupils in to a separate school?

    Doesn't it depend on the special needs? A person with good intelligence and comprehension but having physical issues - motor skills, impaired vision etc could easily be a good contributor to the class, whereas someone with learning difficulties would have great difficulty keeping up with a class - I cannot see how that is of benefit to them or the rest of the class.

    I do not think this applies to primary school, when having contact with special needs children, and vice versa, is generally beneficial.


  • #24
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Smondie wrote: »
    Most special needs have now sna's in England, so the teacher has more help than ever before. Even in Ireland sna's are more prevalent than before.


    Would you suggest separating the special needs pupils in to a separate school?
    Even with SNAs there is often disruption to classes where there are one or more special needs students, there can be noise tantrums etc and the class is disrupted until the student is appeased or removed. This would not be as big an issue as students with little or no English where the teachers are expected to teach them subjects they clearly don't understand, this is a massive problem in schools in the UK but Ireland is catching up.

    I would hope that those with poor/little English would be placed into intensive English classes and only placed into mainstream classes when they have the same standard and ability in English as the others in the class.

    For special needs students it might be worth looking at having a classroom in each school dedicated to special needs with a teacher who is capable of covering all the class range in the class(for primary level) with the help of the SNAs, I don't see Special needs students being as much of a distraction for second level once there is no disruption during classes.


  • #25
    CMOTDibbler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,830 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Integrating special needs students and those with poor english into mainstream classes is responsible for a reduction in what students are achieving as teachers are unable to deliver the same to the majority of students because a few need so much extra attention. this is being countered by easier marking and subtle changes to the curriculum to make it all that much easier and make the falling class averages seem higher.
    You shouldn't take on special needs children without the resources to deal with them. With fees in the tens of thousands, you'd think that shouldn't be a problem.

    The education system is supposed to be for everyone. Are you suggesting that special needs children should be denied that right?


  • #26
    Your Face
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,275 ✭✭✭Your Face


    Im suspicious about threads like these.


  • #27
    purplecow1977
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,879 ✭✭✭purplecow1977


    Smondie wrote:
    In the UK it's more accountable than here. The teachers here fight tooth and nail to be kept as unaccountable as possible.


    Many UK teachers also quit teaching within a couple of years.

    Is that a a system you want to aim for?

    Irish teachers are accountable by the way. Ever hear of Whole School Evaluations?


  • #28
    purplecow1977
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,879 ✭✭✭purplecow1977


    Smondie wrote:
    Most special needs have now sna's in England, so the teacher has more help than ever before. Even in Ireland sna's are more prevalent than before.


    SNAs are mostly allocated for physical care needs and their acquisition is usually hard fought.


  • #29
    Carlos Orange
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭Carlos Orange


    Candie wrote: »
    If results at the school were poor generally, it's fair to say that the service the parents paid for wasn't delivered.

    It seems to have half the local authority and national average rate for receiving
    5+ A-C GCSEs and A-C in both english and math.

    https://www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/school/113003


  • #30
    purplecow1977
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,879 ✭✭✭purplecow1977


    foggy_lad wrote:
    For special needs students it might be worth looking at having a class dedicated to special needs with a teacher who is capable of covering all the class range in the class(for primary level) with the help of the SNAs, I don't see Special needs students being as much of a distraction for second level once there is no disruption during classes.

    foggy_lad wrote:
    I would hope that those with poor/little English would be placed into intensive English classes and only placed into mainstream classes when they have the same standard and ability in English as the others in the class.

    foggy_lad wrote:
    Even with SNAs there is often disruption to classes where there are one or more special needs students, there can be noise tantrums etc and the class is disrupted until the student is appeased or removed. This would not be as big an issue as students with little or no English where the teachers are expected to teach them subjects they clearly don't understand, this is a massive problem in schools in the UK but Ireland is catching up.

    Wow, segregation at its best!


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  • #31
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    CMOTDibbler wrote: »
    You shouldn't take on special needs children without the resources to deal with them. With fees in the tens of thousands, you'd think that shouldn't be a problem.

    The education system is supposed to be for everyone. Are you suggesting that special needs children should be denied that right?

    All children whether with special needs or with not a word of English are entitled to the same education(I feel they should be entitled to extra).

    What I believe is that no child or teen with special needs or needing extra tuition in English should be in a class to the detriment of the class.


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