Philippines - shoot dealers and addicts

Help!!!! · 18-08-2016 04:12PM

kowloon wrote: »

What about people who are terrible gardeners?

Well you could go to the local garden centre & get tips & buy whatever equipment needed. The government gets its share through VAT

Dohnjoe · 18-08-2016 04:13PM

Unfortunately the Philippines has a v extreme problem with violence, crime, corruption and murder that politicians have been unable or unwilling to solve. More often that not officials in higher up positions are involved or corrupt themselves, e.g. it's not uncommon for security officials to plant weapons in people's luggage at airports to then extort money out of them

A large amount of people have given up and voted in a strongman. Ultimately they know that he will be a travesty of human rights, justice and democracy - but at this stage many don't care, breaking the endless cycle of violence and corruption they experience on a daily basis is a far far higher priority

mzungu · 18-08-2016 04:17PM

The flying mouse wrote: »

Philippines President Rodrigo Duterte said he "does not care" about human rights and will maintain his "shoot-to-kill" order for drug dealers until the last day of his term.

Under his orders, the country has launched a massive hunt for people involved in drug sales and roughly 800 people are reported to have been killed since May, when Duterte came to power.

Following these killings in the country, police said that more than 500,000 people have surrendered to the local authorities and vowed to permanently give up use of illegal drugs.

The president has hit back at critics saying it is "none of their business".

https://www.google.es/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiUo5yGmMvOAhWE7BQKHVDXC1wQFggwMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ibtimes.co.uk%2Fphilippines-rodrigo-duterte-says-shoot-kill-order-remain-until-last-day-his-term-1574657&usg=AFQjCNEbgv6hO96F012hOIHJ7AcI0wq0AA

What you think AH ? Is this the way to go, stop your drug dealing or die.

I don't know what to think, sounds good and effective, at the start, but suppose it be only a matter of time before the drugs gangs get better armed and start fighting back ,ie Mexico.

Would we not be better of just legalising and government controlling drugs than doing this ?

Nope. I imagine this 'shoot to kill' policy will end in disaster. Most likely there will be a fair amount of innocent people caught up in it too.

seamus · 18-08-2016 04:31PM

Anyone who thinks this law is being used for anything other than settling grudges between minor drug pushers and the families of users is deluding themselves. The guys in their expensive cars and huge houses aren't even remotely concerned about some member of the public pulling a pistol on them; they likely travel surrounded by a small army anyway.

Duterte is a very typical populist politician who uses loud promises and extreme gimmicks like this one to distract from the fact that the country is desperately poor and a complete mess and he has no clue how to fix it and no will to even bother.

Dave_The_Sheep · 18-08-2016 04:47PM

murpho999 wrote: »

This man sounds dangerous.

The man is dangerous.

Read up about his comments about a gang-raped and murdered missionary ... saying he would have preferred to have "gone first". His comments about killing people. About his death squads and the killing of (possibly corrupt) journalists.

The man is a nutcase... and is president.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 18-08-2016 05:25PM

Help!!!! wrote: »

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Harder drugs such as...?

Heroin, cocaine met etc

Statistically, Alcohol is more addictive and dangerous than either of those two.

Although a lot depends on the person and their personal situation

18-08-2016 05:32PM

What's happened to the 500k people who've "surrendered"?

Help!!!! · 18-08-2016 06:16PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Statistically, Alcohol is more addictive and dangerous than either of those two.

Although a lot depends on the person and their personal situation

Yes that may be true but if you stop the person going to a dealer, your half way to stopping them trying other drugs. If a person gets stoned at home on their own home grown their not going to be out on the streets looking to score or looking for someone to mug so they can score.

jackwigan · 18-08-2016 07:47PM

The King of Moo wrote: »

It's a good thing that drug dealers easily identifiable by their canes, feathered hats, and fur coats, otherwise there'd be a risk of innocent people getting shot!

That's pimps you're thinking of...

ArnoldJRimmer · 18-08-2016 08:06PM

This is exactly what Shinawatra did in Thailand in the early 2000's, many innocent people were killed. Low level dealers were also shot oin their way to surrender too

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 18-08-2016 08:17PM

Help!!!! wrote: »

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Statistically, Alcohol is more addictive and dangerous than either of those two.

Although a lot depends on the person and their personal situation

Yes that may be true but if you stop the person going to a dealer, your half way to stopping them trying other drugs. If a person gets stoned at home on their own home grown their not going to be out on the streets looking to score or looking for someone to mug so they can score.

Any references to back this up? What are they getting stoned on? What are they getting from the dealer?

All a bit vague and hypothetical is your all me.

18-08-2016 10:11PM

The vast majority of the 500 or so killed, both by police and Vigilates were poor Filipinos, many of whom had nothing to do with the drug trade. They were not accorded an accusation and a trial, but were simply shot down in the streets, the critics say.

“These are not the wealthy and powerful drug lords who actually have meaningful control over supply of drugs on the streets in the Philippines,” said Phelim Kine, a deputy director of Human Rights Watch in Asia.

archer22 · 18-08-2016 10:46PM

Before Duterte became president he was Mayor of Davao city in Mindanao.When Duterte took over Davao it was regarded as one of the worst cities in the Philippines, a crime and drugs ridden hellhole.
Duterte transformed the city so much so that it was voted one of the best cities in Asia to visit.It was his record in transforming Davao that won him the presidential election with a landslide victory.
The guy is loved and admired by Filipinos and their expectation is that he can do for the rest of the Philippines what he done for Davao.He pulled no punches before the election and stated exactly what he would do and he is keeping his word...he is using the exact same tactics he used in Davao.
And contrary to what some say he is not just going after the minor dealers and users, he has also busted Politicians, high ranking Police and even judges.He has only been elected 2 months and has 6 years to go.It may well be that this guy will prove to be the best thing that ever happened to the Philippines..its not just drugs that are in his sights, its other criminality and corruption as well.Drugs are only the start.

archer22 · 18-08-2016 11:05PM

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

The man is dangerous.

Read up about his comments about a gang-raped and murdered missionary ... saying he would have preferred to have "gone first". His comments about killing people. About his death squads and the killing of (possibly corrupt) journalists.

The man is a nutcase... and is president.

His comments about the missionary were joking...admittedly a bad joke.
The thing to remember though is that he had all those involved in that crime executed.

Help!!!! · 19-08-2016 11:10AM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Any references to back this up? What are they getting stoned on? What are they getting from the dealer?

All a bit vague and hypothetical is your all me.

If you reread from the start you will see that I said every adult should legally be allowed to have 1-2 marijuana plants at home for personal use. This would stop the person having to go out to score from a dealer so stopping them from around harder drugs. It may not save the long term users that are around at the moment but it will save the younger generations

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 19-08-2016 11:21AM

Help!!!! wrote: »

If you reread from the start you will see that I said every adult should legally be allowed to have 1-2 marijuana plants at home for personal use. This would stop the person having to go out to score from a dealer so stopping them from around harder drugs. It may not save the long term users that are around at the moment but it will save the younger generations

Yeah, you can point that out without being condescending about it.

My point is people take the attitude that the drug they use should be fine, al lthe other "hard" ones should be banned and users hsould be shot without researchign what drugs they're actually talking about.

Help!!!! · 19-08-2016 11:43AM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Yeah, you can point that out without being condescending about it.

My point is people take the attitude that the drug they use should be fine, al lthe other "hard" ones should be banned and users hsould be shot without researchign what drugs they're actually talking about.

Sorry didn't mean to come across condescending.
I have dabbled ( some may say more than dabbled

) in different types of drugs but haven't used for years. I made it into work every Monday & never stole/mugged/burgled anyone. I'm not Pro or Anti Drugs but I do think things need to change with the way drugs are viewed, especially in Ireland. There is no point going out shooting a user but something needs to be done about the dealers.

Ken. · 19-08-2016 12:49PM

Mod-Threads merged.

skywanderer · 19-08-2016 01:38PM

Duterte got the biggest majority of any Filipino politician ever and currently enjoys 90%+ approval ratings. So popular was he that the was a very real fear of Civil War starting if the elite tried rigging the election against him. He is going after the elitist scum in his country and is opening the country to foreign investment and breaking the oligarchy cartels of Business families who control all that countries wealth.

He is serious about law and order, one of his first acts was to double the Police salary with orders to police to shoot and kill any corrupt officers. Hundreds of pigs with their heads in the trough resigned within the first week of his elections.

You know he is doing something right when you hear the liberals and politically correct left moaning because they always side with the criminals from their high horse up in their silver spoon fed ivory towers.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 19-08-2016 01:58PM

skywanderer wrote: »

Duterte got the biggest majority of any Filipino politician ever and currently enjoys 90%+ approval ratings. So popular was he that the was a very real fear of Civil War starting if the elite tried rigging the election against him. He is going after the elitist scum in his country and is opening the country to foreign investment and breaking the oligarchy cartels of Business families who control all that countries wealth.

He is serious about law and order, one of his first acts was to double the Police salary with orders to police to shoot and kill any corrupt officers. Hundreds of pigs with their heads in the trough resigned within the first week of his elections.

You know he is doing something right when you hear the liberals and politically correct left moaning because they always side with the criminals from their high horse up in their silver spoon fed ivory towers.

So every political theory left of centre is defined as 'siding with criminals...?' while a guy who suspends legal due process, promotes vigilante death squads and sits all over Human Rights gets the thumbs-up?

Tell me, how do you know innocent people haven't been taken out in all this? Or do you? Do you even care?

skywanderer · 19-08-2016 02:35PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

So every political theory left of centre is defined as 'siding with criminals...?' while a guy who suspends legal due process, promotes vigilante death squads and sits all over Human Rights gets the thumbs-up?

Tell me, how do you know innocent people haven't been taken out in all this? Or do you? Do you even care?

Collateral Damage; it is a war and fought for the greater good, every corrupt politician and drug dealer which gets a bullet will save and better the lives of many. The few unfortunate lives of the innocent are worth paying for the greater good. Left-Wing Politics is fuelled by hate and by greed, Marxism continues to be a huge threat, look at how the left are siding with Muslim terrorists against ordinary people.

ScumLord · 19-08-2016 02:54PM

skywanderer wrote: »

Collateral Damage; it is a war and fought for the greater good, every corrupt politician and drug dealer which gets a bullet will save and better the lives of many. The few unfortunate lives of the innocent are worth paying for the greater good. Left-Wing Politics is fuelled by hate and by greed, Marxism continues to be a huge threat, look at how the left are siding with Muslim terrorists against ordinary people.

You're just basically promoting moralistic murder. This won't do anything to stop the flow of drugs, if anything it gives drug gangs a license to go out and shoot their competition. It gives any murderer a simple excuse, "I thought he was on drugs". It's anarchy, pure and simple, no rational right minded person would want to live in a society where random murders were state sanctioned. Only murderous psychopaths would think this is a good idea.

But reactions like yours really go to show the bubble some westerners live in, that they think creating a warzone is preferable to allowing people the freedom to use drugs recreationally. Addiction comes nowhere near to the dangers of removing laws surrounding killing another person.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 19-08-2016 03:00PM

skywanderer wrote: »

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

So every political theory left of centre is defined as 'siding with criminals...?' while a guy who suspends legal due process, promotes vigilante death squads and sits all over Human Rights gets the thumbs-up?

Tell me, how do you know innocent people haven't been taken out in all this? Or do you? Do you even care?

Collateral Damage; it is a war and fought for the greater good, every corrupt politician and drug dealer which gets a bullet will save and better the lives of many. The few unfortunate lives of the innocent are worth paying for the greater good. Left-Wing Politics is fuelled by hate and by greed, Marxism continues to be a huge threat, look at how the left are siding with Muslim terrorists against ordinary people.

Marxism us siding with Muslim terrorists?
Go on, please. Elaborate.
You've condoned the legal murder of innocent people, so you might as well.

end of the road · 19-08-2016 03:21PM

selastich2 wrote: »

The Philippines have given the order to go ahead and shoot dealers and junkies. Nearly sixty thousand addicts have handed themelves in and the jails are full and reports of 100 + dealers already shot.

These sons of whores are destroying our children-mayor

Could a similar solution work here?

no, and it won't work there.

Tow wrote: »

Visit the country and talk to the people. They are sick and tried of 'lies, corruption and vote rigging'. His support is so strong the country would have fallen into civil war if he did not win.

and it might fall into civil war because of him. so i guess they are probably screwed either way. i'm sure isis would like him though, he seems to have the same mentality.

skywanderer wrote: »

I was in the Philippines this year when the election was held there, there was huge vote rigging and attempts to rig the election against this Man; particularly by Mar Roxas the opposing candidate and incumbent party candidate. The rich and powerful elite who control the Philippines lost the election and Duterte is now ruling with an Iron fist; Drugs are a huge problem in the Philippines particularly Shabu (Crystal-Meth). A Filipina I know there was offered 5,000pesos (€95) to vote for a different candidate; she took the money but voted Duterte anyway. This 5,000 bribe would be equivalent of around €1,500 here in terms of time to earn it on minimum wage. She and her family were selected for payment due to party loyalty and close friendship with the local Barangay mayors daughter.

Two days before the election nearly 2 million people went to hear him speak in Luneta park in Manila. The day before the election, tens of thousands of Buses all arrived into Manila and one of the greatest migrations of people I have seen began as several million people left the City to return home to the their Provinces, Villages and Barangays to vote as that would be where their vote is.

On the day of election all bars were closed and Alcohol sales banned, a taxi trip which should have taken me over 2 hours across Metro Manila took 17 minutes as the entire city emptied out and people stayed home and off the roads. Their was a distinct eeriness to the whole thing as the Military were on high alert because people were prepared to fight if Duterte did not get elected and a Revolution would have taken place along EDSA; as it subsequently transpired Duterte got elected with 7 million votes to spare.

The Philippines is not a huge country but has 105million people and is bursting at the rafters; corruption is its biggest problem and this guy Duterte is tackling the problems head on; one bullet at a time. It is the only way to do it and while he upsets liberals; he is certainly getting results.

by "he upsets liberals" you mean "he upsets normal thinking people who have no time for extremists"
he gets no results, he will get no results. the people will tolerate his extremism for a bit, but he will put a foot wrong. only a matter of time

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Look at the difference between areas that are/were dominated by Republican vs Loyalists, Ballymena for example used to be ridden with Heroin.

Derry AFAIK has a decent bit of pills and hash floating around but compared to a city like Limerick or Athlone which have fairly similar demographic and levels of poverty it doesn't have anything even approaching the Heroin problem so on balance I think it probably works for harder drugs.

I think when people make these statements they have never lived in NI or are making a judgment of an area they don't know the background too.

or, they are correct, and it hasn't actually worked. something not being visible on the streets doesn't mean it has gone away.

end of the road · 19-08-2016 03:59PM

archer22 wrote: »

Before Duterte became president he was Mayor of Davao city in Mindanao.When Duterte took over Davao it was regarded as one of the worst cities in the Philippines, a crime and drugs ridden hellhole.
Duterte transformed the city so much so that it was voted one of the best cities in Asia to visit.It was his record in transforming Davao that won him the presidential election with a landslide victory.
The guy is loved and admired by Filipinos and their expectation is that he can do for the rest of the Philippines what he done for Davao.He pulled no punches before the election and stated exactly what he would do and he is keeping his word...he is using the exact same tactics he used in Davao.
And contrary to what some say he is not just going after the minor dealers and users, he has also busted Politicians, high ranking Police and even judges.He has only been elected 2 months and has 6 years to go.It may well be that this guy will prove to be the best thing that ever happened to the Philippines..its not just drugs that are in his sights, its other criminality and corruption as well.Drugs are only the start.

so, he turned a city with a visible drugs issue into one which has an invisible but still existing drugs issue, by murdring all and sundry without trial. this guy is a nut and is dangerous and needs to be removed. he will turn the country into another mexico if not stopped.

archer22 wrote: »

His comments about the missionary were joking...admittedly a bad joke.
The thing to remember though is that he had all those involved in that crime executed.

hmmmmmm, i would say it was no joke myself.

skywanderer wrote: »

Duterte got the biggest majority of any Filipino politician ever and currently enjoys 90%+ approval ratings. So popular was he that the was a very real fear of Civil War starting if the elite tried rigging the election against him. He is going after the elitist scum in his country and is opening the country to foreign investment and breaking the oligarchy cartels of Business families who control all that countries wealth.

He is serious about law and order, one of his first acts was to double the Police salary with orders to police to shoot and kill any corrupt officers. Hundreds of pigs with their heads in the trough resigned within the first week of his elections.

You know he is doing something right when you hear the liberals and politically correct left moaning because they always side with the criminals from their high horse up in their silver spoon fed ivory towers.

ah, i love a good laugh. ja pc rabel rabel, ja liberals rabel rabel. change the record.
so he is going after the "elitist scum" yet opening the country to foreign investment from "elitist scum" you couldn't make it up!!!!!!!
if he was serious about law and order he would insure people were found guilty of their crimes. realistically though, he just wants a system in place so his opposition can be murdered under the guise of "law and order"
they're will be a civil or some form of a war yet, i can nearly guarantee it.

skywanderer wrote: »

Collateral Damage; it is a war and fought for the greater good, every corrupt politician and drug dealer which gets a bullet will save and better the lives of many. The few unfortunate lives of the innocent are worth paying for the greater good. Left-Wing Politics is fuelled by hate and by greed, Marxism continues to be a huge threat, look at how the left are siding with Muslim terrorists against ordinary people.

by "siding with Muslim terrorists against ordinary people" you mean, "siding with muslims/brown skinned people in general against the small few racists"
far right-Wing Politics is fuelled by hate and by greed, such extremism continues to be a huge threat. look at how the far right side with extremists and are happy to see everyone elses rights bar theirs taken away, how they accuse everyone who doesn't subscribe to their views of being of the opposite extreme view.

ohnonotgmail · 19-08-2016 05:29PM

skywanderer wrote: »

Duterte got the biggest majority of any Filipino politician ever and currently enjoys 90%+ approval ratings. So popular was he that the was a very real fear of Civil War starting if the elite tried rigging the election against him. He is going after the elitist scum in his country and is opening the country to foreign investment and breaking the oligarchy cartels of Business families who control all that countries wealth.
.

Majority? he got less than 40% of the vote.

Chuchote · 21-08-2016 06:56AM

Earlier on Saturday, Duterte had vowed to keep his "shoot-to-kill" order "until the last day of my term, if I'm still alive by then".

"I don't care about human rights, believe me," he said, according to official transcripts released by the presidential palace.

About 800 people have been killed since Duterte won a landslide election in May, according to reports by the local press, which has been tracking reports of extra-judicial killings.

He's now saying he's going to bring his benighted country out of the UN because UN rapporteurs have criticised the state murders, and hopes to make a new UN with China and African countries.

He's sacked all presidential appointees in government positions today.

jacksie66 · 21-08-2016 07:31AM

This post has been deleted.

Wanderer78 · 21-08-2016 08:10AM

What a dreadful policy, how about being pro active in helping your mentally ill citizens with addiction problems! Cancelling some national debt would also be a good start!

end of the road · 21-08-2016 01:44PM

jacksie66 wrote: »

Liberals are not normal thinking people..

most liberals are normal people. extremists (which is what Duterte and those who support him are) aren't normal people.

Philippines - shoot dealers and addicts

Comments