Greenstar takeover by Panda

ryanduffycountydublin1975 · 16-02-2016 9:21pm #1

The competition authority should reject this deal on the basis that is completely anti -competitive and will decimate competition for the following reasons.

(1) The domestic market - If the takeover is passed, Fingal CoCo and Dun Laoghaire Rathdown will have a single waste operator i.e. that is Panda. The Greenstar brand will remain however, Panda will be the owner and therefore it creates a monopoly is in these areas.

(2) The reason why Panda were so keen to push through a deal for Greenstar early this year is because once the new charge per weight regulations come into effect in July this year (I’m aware they are already exist in Dun Laoghaire Rathdown), it will enable Panda to substantially increase waste collections collection charges and double their profits while blaming the government and the new regulations. For example, a waste collector makes on average €70 per annum per household, with the introduction of the new pay as you throw regulations, this will double to €140 per household and increase year upon year.

(3) If you don’t like it, what can you do? Well, if the takeover is approved, absolutely nothing because as aforementioned, there is no competition. Many citizens will compare greenstar and panda prices (if they can get them as they are not available on panda’s website) without realising they are owned by the same company i.e. Panda. Panda will contend that the cost of integrating the Greenstar brand into their own is cost prohibitive (and I don’t doubt that), but their main reason for wanting to keep the Greenstar brand is because it creates a false sense of competition.

(4) The entry of other operators into Fingal & Dun Laoghaire Rathdown? There is next to zero chance of any existing operators willing to commence collections in these areas. You will ask why is this the case? Simply because a carter exists between all waste operators within Dublin (with the exception of Citybin & Greyhound, whom compete heavily against each other and a couple of smaller operators do the same).

To explain, I will demonstrate this.
It appears to be the case compete against few and maintain alliances with your competition with the net result, no or little threat to their current customer base.

For example
Citybin the newest entrant into Dublin don’t operate a physical recycling or waste facility. All of their waste and recyclables go into Panda, which means they won’t compete against them. To prove this is correct, see if you can sign up to citybin in any area that panda operates and you will see that you can’t. Citybin’s customer service agents will inform you that they will be in touch once they commence in the area, but that will never happen.

Thorntons Waste. When Panda acquired OZO recently, they split it between themselves and Thorntons, with all domestic customers in Wicklow and south Dublin passed to Thorntons. There is a long standing relationship between the two companies (basically a non -compete) and one may even find part of Greenstar being sold to Thorntons to appease the Competition Authority. However, I assure you that while it creates the idea of competition between these two operators, this is certainly not the case.

Greyhound Waste. Greyhound don’t operate a recycling facility, which means all of the recyclables collected from your green bin, go where? You guessed it, they go into Panda’s recycling facility along with the baled recyclables from Greyhound’s commercial operations. Some waste (refuse derived fuel) from Panda is provided to Greyhound’s facility. So again no competition.

AES (Bord Na Mona) currently don’t operate within the Dublin domestic market and have no intention of doing so as they are looking to sell up. Moreover, they have close ties with Panda again as all their baled recyclables from their commercial business in Dublin goes into a Panda facility.

I nearly forgot to add before the proposed Panda/Greenstar takeover, Greenstar attempted to compete against panda and it even got quite heated for a while, with an injunction granted against Greenstar for removing panda bins once they signed up to Greenstar. However, this quickly came to an end when both parties agreed it was best not to compete against each other. However, up and until now, consumers could still move to either company voluntarily even if either operator didn’t canvass for each other’s business and at least there was some element of competition.

Michael Kilcoyne, Vice Chairman of the Consumer agency agrees that the takeover will lead to a lack of competition and urged a price freeze for five years, which certainly won’t open if the takeover is allows.

Greenstar currently operates at breakeven point, so again you have to question why Panda would fork out close to €40-50 million for a company that makes no money. There will be some savings gained from staff layoffs and economies of scale savings on waste incineration costs. However, not enough to warrant forking out €40 -50 million on a buyout. Their return on investment will outline will inevitably come from increased waste costs in both the domestic and commercial market.

Finally, Panda have agreed a deal to supply Covanta (the operator assigned to run the poolbeg incineration facility opening in 2017) with 360,000 tonnes of municipal waste. Without buying greenstar, they simply wouldn't have the volume to honour this contract. How can they agree to do this before the competition authority has rubber stamped the acquisition of greenstar? Does Panda know something we don't?

Hopefully the Competition Authority sees sense and realises that the takeover should never be allowed to happen given it will create a monopoly in Fingal & Dun Laoghaire

ted1 · 16-02-2016 11:31pm

I'm living in Killiney and our bills are the highest in the country already and that'd with a green star panda duopoly, can't imagine it getting any worse

L1011 · 16-02-2016 11:38pm

I'm amazed there's any areas with only two (to be one) provider. I've got four options - Thorntons, AES, Oxigen and Panda (via a non-rebranded bought company called McMahons). Up to 16 trucks a week reversing down the road depending what week what is out - black, green, brown and glass bins.

The CCPC (Competition Authority are gone) take submissions on takeovers, and are currently working on this. Hope isn't good enough if you want to object.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 16-02-2016 11:59pm

How can there be only one provider.? We are rural and have a choice of 3. Contact the other providers.

Yggr of Asgard · 17-02-2016 12:08am

Thank you ryanduffycountydublin1975 for this great summary.

I noticed this merger earlier on the CCPC website and already asked send a mail to 'andrewrae@ccpc.ie' who is looking at this asking if and when they will take submissions from consumers. I can only encourage everybody to submit if they have objections.

My area only has greenstar/panda and once this merger is approved I am down to one owner with all of the effects you have outlined.

And to top it up this afternoon a door to door sales group from Panda came around to ask residents to switch to them and noted that sooner or later everyone will anyhow end up with them.

Once this merger is approved we are back to the good old times of someone having the monopoly in waste collection, just instead of the country council it's now a private operator.

OldMrBrennan83 · 17-02-2016 12:10am

This post has been deleted.

ryanduffycountydublin1975 · 17-02-2016 11:06am

ted1 wrote: »

I'm living in Killiney and our bills are the highest in the country already and that'd with a green star panda duopoly, can't imagine it getting any worse

It will obviously get worse when it moves from a duopoly to a monopoly.

ryanduffycountydublin1975 · 17-02-2016 11:08am

L1011 wrote: »

I'm amazed there's any areas with only two (to be one) provider. I've got four options - Thorntons, AES, Oxigen and Panda (via a non-rebranded bought company called McMahons). Up to 16 trucks a week reversing down the road depending what week what is out - black, green, brown and glass bins.

The CCPC (Competition Authority are gone) take submissions on takeovers, and are currently working on this. Hope isn't good enough if you want to object.

What area are you based in? In Fingal and Dun Laoghaire, there is only two operators greenstar and panda, soon to become one.

ryanduffycountydublin1975 · 17-02-2016 11:12am

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

Thank you ryanduffycountydublin1975 for this great summary.

I noticed this merger earlier on the CCPC website and already asked send a mail to who is looking at this asking if and when they will take submissions from consumers. I can only encourage everybody to submit if they have objections.

My area only has greenstar/panda and once this merger is approved I am down to one owner with all of the effects you have outlined.

And to top it up this afternoon a door to door sales group from Panda came around to ask residents to switch to them and noted that sooner or later everyone will anyhow end up with them.

Once this merger is approved we are back to the good old times of someone having the monopoly in waste collection, just instead of the country council it's now a private operator.

I completely agree that every consumer should email Andrew Rae about this. How could it possibly be even considered that one operator can control two out of the four councils areas in Dublin. It is completely in direct conflict with EC policy. Ryanair weren't allowed to take over aer lingus for exactly the same reasons, why should this merger be allowed.

Melendez · 17-02-2016 11:16am

This post has been deleted.

L1011 · 17-02-2016 12:17pm

ryanduffycountydublin1975 wrote: »

What area are you based in? In Fingal and Dun Laoghaire, there is only two operators greenstar and panda, soon to become one.

Location field <--

Maynooth - but its the same all over North Kildare, you have at least 3.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp · 21-04-2016 9:17am

Does anyone know the status of this merger?

coylemj · 21-04-2016 5:31pm

I got my annual bill from Greenstar the other day which includes a flat service fee ('standing charge') for the year ending March 2017. However I heard a while back a suggestion that the bin companies will have to change their billing from July next to charge more for actual collections and charge less (or nothing at all) by way of a standing charge, does anyone know anything about this?

As I have a compost bin and throw away very little in the way of packaging, it would suit me to pay more of the bill based on weight and less of a standing charge.

Speedwell · 21-04-2016 5:35pm

coylemj wrote: »

I got my annual bill from Greenstar the other day which includes a flat service fee ('standing charge') for the year ending March 2017. However I heard a while back a suggestion that the bin companies will have to change their billing from July next to charge more for actual collections and charge less (or nothing at all) by way of a standing charge, does anyone know anything about this?

As I have a compost bin and throw away very little in the way of packaging, it would suit me to pay more of the bill based on weight and less of a standing charge.

The new regulations don't prevent them from charging a standing charge.

coylemj · 23-04-2016 11:12am

Speedwell wrote: »

The new regulations don't prevent them from charging a standing charge.

I understand that but if they're going to charge for lifting the recycling bin (glass and paper), I would expect the standing charge to come down, hence why I'm asking why I should pay a standing charge at the old rate which covers up to March 2017 if the system is going to change from this July?

Yggr of Asgard · 14-06-2016 2:08pm

http://www.ccpc.ie/news/2016-06-10-ccpc-carry-out-full-investigation-pandagreen%E2%80%99s-acquisition-greenstar

10 June 2016: The Competition and Consumer Protection Commission (‘the CCPC’) has decided to carry out a full phase 2 investigation in relation to the proposed transaction whereby PandaGreen Limited, a wholly-owned subsidiary of Sretaw, incorporated for the purpose of this transaction, would acquire the entire issued share capital of Starrus Eco Holdings Limited trading as Greenstar.

Another wholly-owned subsidiary of Sretaw, trading as Panda Waste, is involved in the waste management sector in Counties Dublin, Kildare, Meath and Wicklow. Greenstar is also involved in the waste management sector in these counties and elsewhere.

Following a preliminary investigation, the CCPC has determined that a full investigation is required in order to determine whether the acquisition would substantially lessen competition in markets for goods or services in the State.

The companies have been informed of the decision. The CCPC has until 27 September 2016 to make a final decision on the proposed transaction (but may conclude its investigation in advance of this date).

The deadline may, however, change as the CCPC can decide to issue a Requirement for Information (RFI). This would suspend the process until the parties comply with the RFI. A RFI must be issued within 30 working days after the decision to carry out a full phase 2 investigation.

Interested parties are invited to make submissions no later than 5pm on Friday 24 June 2016. Parties making submissions should indicate clearly what, if any, of the material submitted contains business secrets. Submissions should be marked “M/16/008 – PandaGreen / Greenstar” and should be addressed to Andrew Rae, Mergers Division, Competition and Consumer Protection Commission, PO Box 12585, Dublin 1 or sent by e-mail to andrewrae@ccpc.ie
(link sends e-mail)
.
Additional Information: The Parties Involved
Sretaw is a private unlimited holding company headquartered in Tallaght, Co Dublin. Its wholly-owned subsidiary, PandaGreen, has been incorporated for the purposes of the proposed transaction.
Another wholly-owned subsidiary of Sretaw, Nurendale (Unlimited) trading as Panda Waste, is involved in the waste management sector in Counties Dublin, Kildare, Meath and Wicklow.
Starrus Eco Holdings Limited, trading as Greenstar, headquartered at Bray, Co Wicklow, is a limited private company involved in the waste management sector in the Counties Dublin, Kildare, Meath and Wicklow and elsewhere in the State.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp · 14-06-2016 2:41pm

"...would substantially lessen competition in markets for goods or services in the State"

Well it's not going to increase competition!!

Well done to all those who emailed the CCPI.

dudara · 15-06-2016 3:38pm

Moved to the new Recycling & Domestic Waste Disposal forum

dudara

ryanduffycountydublin1975 · 16-06-2016 8:32pm

Folks, pay per weight is only a minor problem in comparison to the real problem and that is the devastating effects that Panda’s takeover of greenstar will have on consumer.

As you are probably aware this takeover will create a monopoly in Fingal and Dun Laoghaire- Rathdown. As part of the CCPC’s attempts to create competition it has directed Panda (the leading member of the cartel) to sell 10,000 customers in Fingal and Dun Laoghaire- Rathdown. It has already been agreed that these customers will be sold to Thorntons in an attempt to satisfy CCPC’s direction. However, it also been agreed between the cartel that Thornton after 12 months will inform customers it is not economically viable to collect in Fingal and Dun Laoghaire- Rathdown and the customer base will revert back to Panda. This strategy in is cirucumventing CCPC’s demand as they are fully aware the CCPC will be powerless to do anything in 12 months’ time. The cartel is making a mockery of the CCPC.

The only real way, competition can be created is the emergence of a new entrant into the market place. But given the time it takes to obtains licence etc the CCPC needs to extend the timeframe to allow a new entrant to come in and buy the 10,000 customers database to create real competition and dismantle the cartel.

Yggr of Asgard · 17-06-2016 8:53am

If you have proof of the claim of collusion between Panda and Thorntons than share it with the CCPC or even make it public.

guil · 17-06-2016 8:56am

That's a pretty big claim there.

Yggr of Asgard · 17-06-2016 10:10am

ryanduffycountydublin1975 wrote: »

Folks, pay per weight is only a minor problem in comparison to the real problem and that is the devastating effects that Panda’s takeover of greenstar will have on consumer.

As you are probably aware this takeover will create a monopoly in Fingal and Dun Laoghaire- Rathdown. As part of the CCPC’s attempts to create competition it has directed Panda (the leading member of the cartel) to sell 10,000 customers in Fingal and Dun Laoghaire- Rathdown. It has already been agreed that these customers will be sold to Thorntons in an attempt to satisfy CCPC’s direction. However, it also been agreed between the cartel that Thornton after 12 months will inform customers it is not economically viable to collect in Fingal and Dun Laoghaire- Rathdown and the customer base will revert back to Panda. This strategy in is cirucumventing CCPC’s demand as they are fully aware the CCPC will be powerless to do anything in 12 months’ time. The cartel is making a mockery of the CCPC.

The only real way, competition can be created is the emergence of a new entrant into the market place. But given the time it takes to obtains licence etc the CCPC needs to extend the timeframe to allow a new entrant to come in and buy the 10,000 customers database to create real competition and dismantle the cartel.

Also giving that you just post on boards.ie about this particular issue gives me pause for thought.

I appreciated your original post as it gave me an insight as to why this merger was bad and helped me draft a message to the CCPC but this goes far into insider knowledge.

ryanduffycountydublin1975 · 17-06-2016 7:37pm

guil wrote: »

That's a pretty big claim there.

This is not a claim, it is fact. The CCPC have directed Panda to sell 10,000 customers and the sale is currently being carried out by a solicitor appointed by Panda and approved by the CCPC and agreed that Thortons will buy it.

I haven't been wrong in any of my points. In my original post, I outlined that the waste companies would use the pay per weight to increase prices and that is exactly what they did. Yesterday, thortons doubled their service charge, greyhound treble theirs and citybin increased their prices, all on the same day (which just isn't a coincidence). Ministers and tds alike have argued yesterday that a cartel exists and they are 100% correct. It is just that they are naive in thinking that pay per weight is the cause of it. It is not, reduced competition is.

Panda haven't released their pay per weight pricing structure as they don't want to be embroiled in the pay per weight fiasco as it will draw attention to the takeover and they dont want consumers to figure out the real cause of the price increases is reduced competition which a direct result of the takeover of Greenstar and subsequent agreement between the cartel to drive up prices.

What ministers and TD's have failed to realise is the abolition of the pay per weight system will not stop prices increases. It wouldn't matter if the pay per bin system remains, prices will still go up (exactly as outlined in my existing article), I assure you off that. The waste cartel merely used the timing of the introduction of the new regulations to announce price increases and hope they went unnoticed (which they didn't) but I assure you pay per weight is not the cause of it, reduced competition is.

These TDs also fail to comprehend that unless thewaste and recycling facilities such as the Dublin City Council MRF (which is currently run by Panda) are controlled by new parties not involved in the domestic collections, then real competition will never exist. Why? Because new entrants cannot operate when they have nowhere to bring their waste and recyclables other than the existing cartel members .

Furthermore, recycling facilities do not make money as therefore no new companies will enter the marketplace and build a waste and recycling facility as is there is no return on investment. It is that simple.

The only way new companies will enter the market is if they can bring the waste and recyclables to 3rd party facilities run by none of the existing domestic collectors. The poolbeg facility (run by Covanta) will offer a place to deliver general waste but there is still nowhere to deliver the green bin recyclables other than to thortons and the Dublin City Council Facility (run by Panda). So if the government want consumers to be protected and real competition to exist, they will need to take the 10 year lease Panda has on this and appoint a company to run the Dublin City Council MRF (someone is not involved in the collection of waste in Ireland).

ryanduffycountydublin1975 · 17-06-2016 7:42pm

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

Also giving that you just post on boards.ie about this particular issue gives me pause for thought.

I appreciated your original post as it gave me an insight as to why this merger was bad and helped me draft a message to the CCPC but this goes far into insider knowledge.

I tried to post on the thejournal.ie but it only allows facebook and twitter users to do so and when I try to authorise twitter to sync with thejournal.ie it comes up as failed.

Im more than happy to post elsewhere. In there months time, all of what I have said will happen unless the CCPC bows to pressure from ministers and TDs.

But unless they understand the real cause of the price increases and do something about it, the cartel will remain and prices will continue to increase year upon year.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp · 17-06-2016 8:52pm

Where are you getting the CCPC information from?

sidcon · 17-06-2016 9:00pm

ryanduffycountydublin1975 wrote: »

.

Panda haven't released their pay per weight pricing structure as they don't want to be embroiled in the pay per weight fiasco as it will draw attention to the takeover and they dont want consumers to figure out the real cause of the price increases is reduced competition which a direct result of the takeover of Greenstar and subsequent agreement between the cartel to drive up prices.

This is how our Pay-By-Weight system works:

The service charge is €86 per year (down from your current service charge of €110)

The black bin waste will be charged at 27.7 cent per kilogram and €3.20 per lift

The brown bin waste will be charged at 16 cent per kilogram and €2.56 per lift

The Green bin has no charge.
Panda released their prices yesterday

ryanduffycountydublin1975 · 17-06-2016 10:27pm

Dalary Dry Physics wrote: »

Where are you getting the CCPC information from?

Contact the CCPC and ask them is a solicitor currently handling the sale of 10,000 customers of the current greenstar customer base.

I understand why the CCPC is doing this as they want at a minimum two operators in each council area to keep healthy competition active. However the strategy is flawed as it as aforementioned it will be sold to Thorntons whom have no interest in growing the customer base and will drop out from the area in 12 months time.

As already mentioned there is competition in the sector is limited to greyhound competing against citybin and the two of them appear to have come to an understanding as both trebled their pricing on the same day.

ryanduffycountydublin1975 · 17-06-2016 10:33pm

sidcon wrote: »

This is how our Pay-By-Weight system works:

The service charge is €86 per year (down from your current service charge of €110)

The black bin waste will be charged at 27.7 cent per kilogram and €3.20 per lift

The brown bin waste will be charged at 16 cent per kilogram and €2.56 per lift

The Green bin has no charge.
Panda released their prices yesterday

It is not listed whatsoever on their website so they are not very open about it.

Furthermore, their new pricing structure will increase the average household bill from €243 per annum to €352 this year. They are not the only operator to do this (all of them have) but that is exactly my point, all the Dublin waste companies have come to an understanding to drive up prices. If there was true competition int he waste sector in Dublin,at least one operator that would break the mould and offer some sort of offer e.g. 6 months free service charge and have much lower per kg charges. None have done this.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp · 16-08-2016 7:03pm

Regulator has backed the take over. On phone so can't post links to news. Surprised?

Yggr of Asgard · 16-08-2016 7:14pm

Not surprised at all, after most of these government bodies are just there to give the public a good feeling but in reality lack the guts to do anything at all.

http://www.ccpc.ie/news/2016-08-16-ccpc-clears-proposed-acquisition-pandagreen-greenstar-subject-binding-divestment

CCPC clears proposed acquisition by PandaGreen of Greenstar subject to binding divestment commitments

CCPC requires PandaGreen to divest Greenstar’s domestic waste collection businesses in Fingal and Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown

Tuesday, 16 August 2016:

The Competition and Consumer Protection Commission (‘CCPC’) has, subject to binding divestment commitments, cleared the proposed merger whereby PandaGreen Limited (‘PandaGreen’), a wholly-owned subsidiary of Sretaw, would acquire the entire issued share capital of Starrus Eco Holdings Limited, which trades as Greenstar. To prevent a substantial lessening of competition following the implementation of the proposed merger, the legally binding commitments require PandaGreen to sell Greenstar’s domestic waste collection businesses in Fingal and Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown.

The CCPC’s determination follows an extensive two-phase investigation, which began on 9 February 2016 when the proposed merger was notified to the CCPC. The CCPC’s investigation involved in-depth economic analysis of the affected markets and consideration of detailed submissions from the parties involved, as well as consultations with competitors of the merging parties and other third parties.
During its investigation, the CCPC identified competition concerns arising from the proposed merger. The CCPC was concerned that the merger would result in a substantial lessening of competition in the market for domestic waste collection services in two local authority areas, namely Fingal and Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown. When the CCPC has concerns about the potential effect on competition of a proposed merger, the parties involved may submit proposed remedies to the CCPC with regard to the manner in which the proposed merger may be put into effect.

The purpose of such proposed remedies is to identify measures that the merging parties may take to address any negative effects of the merger on competition.

It was on this basis that PandaGreen gave binding commitments to the CCPC to sell Greenstar’s domestic waste collection businesses in Fingal and Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown to a purchaser to be approved by the CCPC. The commitments provide for the businesses in question to be sold to Greyhound Household (‘Greyhound’), a company with which PandaGreen has recently signed a non-binding Heads of Agreement. If the sale to Greyhound does not proceed, the commitments require that the two identified businesses be sold to an alternative purchaser or purchasers to be approved by the CCPC.

Isolde Goggin CCPC Chair commented, “Our role in reviewing mergers and acquisitions is to ensure that they do not substantially lessen competition in any market for goods or services in the State. The proposed merger as notified to us in this case would have resulted in a substantial reduction of competition for domestic waste customers in the Fingal and Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown areas. PandaGreen’s commitment to divest Greenstar’s domestic waste collection businesses in Fingal and Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown means that consumers in those areas will continue to have the same amount of choice as they did prior to the merger. PandaGreen has confirmed to the CCPC that consumers in Fingal and Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown who are transferred to the new provider will receive the same domestic waste collection service from the new provider on precisely the same terms and conditions – including price – for the remainder of the term of their contracts.”

The CCPC will publish on its website detailed reasons for its determination in due course after allowing the parties the opportunity to request the removal of confidential information from the published version.

For me as customer this means that instead of Greenstar I'm now getting Greyhound and from what I remember when they did the collection on behalf of the County Council was very spotty.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp · 16-08-2016 10:29pm

If I understand correctly, we will still have two waste operators - PandaGreen and "Greyhound".

I get the feeling ryanduffy wasn't far off the mark. PandaGreen will end up buying back greyhound customers in a year or so when it's deemed by greyhounds new owners to be uneconomical.

Lux23 · 17-08-2016 10:43am

Dalary Dry Physics wrote: »

If I understand correctly, we will still have two waste operators - PandaGreen and "Greyhound".

I get the feeling ryanduffy wasn't far off the mark. PandaGreen will end up buying back greyhound customers in a year or so when it's deemed by greyhounds new owners to be uneconomical.

How would they buy them back exactly?

ryanduffycountydublin1975 · 18-08-2016 6:49pm

Dalary Dry Physics wrote: »

If I understand correctly, we will still have two waste operators - PandaGreen and "Greyhound".

I get the feeling ryanduffy wasn't far off the mark. PandaGreen will end up buying back greyhound customers in a year or so when it's deemed by greyhounds new owners to be uneconomical.

Spot on, the only thing I got slightly wrong was the buyer of the Fingal & Dun Laoghaire Rathdown Customer base, it being Greyhound, instead of Thorntons and even that is not finalised yet.

ryanduffycountydublin1975 · 18-08-2016 7:02pm

Lux23 wrote: »

How would they buy them back exactly?

In a year's time, Greyhound will announce that it is no longer economically viable to service the customer base in Fingal & Dun Laoghaire- Rathdown which mean they will effectively pull out of the area, leaving a single operator i.e. Panda.

Disgraceful and toothless decision by the CCPC and demonstrate the lack of understanding the waste cartel

The whole thing stinks

ryanduffycountydublin1975 · 18-08-2016 7:05pm

guil wrote: »

That's a pretty big claim there.

Don't want to say I told you so, the only change being Greyhound over Thorntons and I predicted this months ago

Yggr of Asgard · 14-12-2016 4:55pm

And today I received my notification that as of 31 December 2016 Greenstar will no longer service my area and that Greyhound will take over unless I contact Greenstar forthwith to stop an automatic transfer of my account including bank details.

To give a customer a little over 2 weeks over the x-mas period to sort out a different provider (as if there is anything beside Panda in my region) if one does not want Greyhound is a joke.

At least they guarantee the same price/charging method until the 1st of July 2017 and no charge for bin collections between 2 and 14 January 2017.

They also attached account/pin code for greyhound a payment card.

Now they say that I have 21 days to tell them that I don't want them to move my data, but that is I don't do anything before 31 December they move me at 1st, which is mathematically impossible, there are not 21 days left until than.

Colm_hand · 23-12-2016 5:55pm

Hi,

I'm a Greenstar Waste customer in Dun Laoghaire Rathdown and I received a letter to say they are stopping waste collection services in the area. They offered to transfer our account to Greyhound waste which I don't want them to do.

I rang Panda Waste to sign up as they are the only other bin provider in the area (other than soon to be Greyhound) and I was informed they are not accepting new customers.

If Panda Waste aren't accepting new customers we are left with no competition in the area and if I dont move to Greyhound I'm left with no bin provider.

Has anyone else had any luck moving to Panda since the letters came out?

Cheers,

Colm

Yggr of Asgard · 23-12-2016 7:07pm

Nope same here in my Area of Swords Panda has no capacity available so I have to move to Greyhound.

When I asked Greyhound for a quote (so that I can see what I have to pay once the price freeze is over) I got told that they don't serve my area and have no plans to serve my area. I questioned that because obviously they are going to be active as of 1 January, but nope, no service.

The CCPC once again has shown to be one of those organizations that does not have a clue in the process of this.

At least you are safe with the price guarantee until end of June, even if looking at Greyhounds reputation and history in my area it might mean no bin collections when scheduled, having to prepay, rather than direct debit and wrong bills etc.

Thank you CCPC for ignoring valid submission and making a mess out of it again.

Yggr of Asgard · 27-01-2017 9:37am

Okay so far the experience with Greyhound has been great and the transition easy.

I still got a bill from Greenstar compromising the lifts last quarter and the advance service charge for this quarter.

There is no change in billing process (no need to prepay, remains service charge per quarter in advance and lifts with a bill every 3 month), no changes in price (until July) and even my direct debit will be transferred.

The collections happen between 0600 and 0800 every time so far and instead of leaving the bins on the street like Greenstar they are always put onto the walkway direct to the wall. And that on the whole street, not just me.

The online account took a while to come alive and still does not show all lifts, but I assume that are initial trouble.

A question to customer service via e-mail was answered within 48 hours.

So far this is smoother than I expected it to be, could have been communicated better that nothing really changes until July.

Yggr of Asgard · 13-02-2017 7:37pm

WARNING, if you were a direct debit customer with Greenstar and were transferred to Panda, check you account balance.

In my case I noticed that no direct debit had been taken and when queried I was told that Greenstar did not transfer the bank details as planed so my bill was overdue.

I suggest to check if your direct debit was taken and if not to contact them for alternative arrangements, you can also pay online via credit card.

Sapele · 06-05-2017 5:26pm

In DLR Greyhound are now offering a flat upfront fee of 250 per year, no weight charges, for a forthnightly collection of bins. You can get 2 of their smaller brown bins for that price too. So a lot of DLR customers could make savings. If news articles are to be believed the average take per household by panda in DLR is 430 annually. So a lot of households paying over that obviously.

Are flat rate price plans soon to be phased out?

ct5amr2ig1nfhp · 25-05-2017 3:40pm

Does anyone know the status of the sale of Greenstars Fingal and DLR areas? Nothing in the news and the CCPC approved the acquisition of Greenstar by PandaGreen in Aug 2016.

On a separate note - I had a lovely letter in the post recently that my black bin was over regularly over 40kgs and I would be charged for anything over 40kgs. Presume a lot of customers received the same letter? No way to check your bin weight history (unless you call them) and no way to weigh your bin before putting it out to be collected. They want me to put out my bins half full. sigh.

van_beano · 25-05-2017 3:48pm

Dalary Dry Physics wrote: »

On a separate note - I had a lovely letter in the post recently that my black bin was over regularly over 40kgs and I would be charged for anything over 40kgs. Presume a lot of customers received the same letter? No way to check your bin weight history (unless you call them) and no way to weigh your bin before putting it out to be collected. They want me to put out my bins half full. sigh.

That's the way it's been for me for ages with Thorntons. I do leave it as long as possible though to put it out. Cheaper to put out a 60kg bin once a month for €13.90 (€9.90 + (20kg x .20c)) as opposed to 2 x 30 kg lifts for €19.80.

Off topic, should the landfill levy be scraped now if everything's getting incinerated?

Greenstar takeover by Panda

Comments