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2016 US Presidential Race - Mod Warning in OP

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Comments

  • #9602
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    Suryavarman wrote: »
    As Brian has pointed out I'm just doing as Trump would. I assume there's nothing wrong with doing that. Unless a Boards.ie poster is to be held to a higher standard than a US presidential candidate.

    In the last few days Trump has baselessly claimed that an Iranian nuclear scientist was killed over the Clinton email leak. He also claimed to have seen a video of a plane being loaded up with cash to be given to the Iranians. He also claimed that that cash was given as a ransom even though he very well knows it wasn't.

    Why should we give Trump any better treatment than he gives anyone else?

    No there’s nothing wrong with that.

    But in essence you are saying you and Trump are two peas in a pod, and people should give you the same level of disrespect and mischaracterization for all your comments, as they do him.

    And you need to up your game if you hope to rise to his standards, as Trump’s claim that an Iranian nuclear scientist was killed over the Clinton email leak was not baseless.

    http://www.breitbart.com/radio/2016/08/08/erik-prince-hillary-clinton-playing-fast-and-loose-with-national-security-very-likely-caused-iranian-nuclear-scientists-death/

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/cotton-clinton-discussed-executed-iranian-scientist-on-email/article/2598807

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/state-department-dodges-questions-on-clinton-emails-about-executed-iranian-scientist/article/2598858


  • #9603
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    marienbad wrote: »
    Any links to back that up

    A google search on "EPA corruption" came up with 586,000 results. Here's one for you reading enjoyment.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2013/02/epa_corruption_and_scandal.html


  • #9604
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    alaimacerc wrote: »
    In the sense of "rebroadcasting the talking points of the faux-news network with that slogan"?

    It's a good slogan, and should be maintained here, wouldn't you say?


  • #9605
    Suryavarman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,583 ✭✭✭Suryavarman


    Amerika wrote: »
    No there’s nothing wrong with that.

    But in essence you are saying you and Trump are two peas in a pod, and people should give you the same level of disrespect and mischaracterization for all your comments, as they do him.

    And you need to up your game if you hope to rise to his standards, as Trump’s claim that an Iranian nuclear scientist was killed over the Clinton email leak was not baseless.

    http://www.breitbart.com/radio/2016/08/08/erik-prince-hillary-clinton-playing-fast-and-loose-with-national-security-very-likely-caused-iranian-nuclear-scientists-death/

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/cotton-clinton-discussed-executed-iranian-scientist-on-email/article/2598807

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/state-department-dodges-questions-on-clinton-emails-about-executed-iranian-scientist/article/2598858

    The claims are completely baseless. Your Breitbart link started off by repeating the lie that the $400m was a ransom payment so I stopped reading after that. The other two links quote Republican politicians (who couldn't be considered biased by any stretch of the imagination) claiming that the scientist's name was in the email leak which is completely false. The scientist's name was mentioned in emails released under an FOIA request 6 years ago though. I can see how it might be a bit hard for Republicans to see the difference between the two though.


    Your hypocrisy on all things political really is a sight to behold.


  • #9606
    Suryavarman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,583 ✭✭✭Suryavarman


    Amerika wrote: »
    A google search on "EPA corruption" came up with 586,000 results. Here's one for you reading enjoyment.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2013/02/epa_corruption_and_scandal.html

    In other words you made that claim up and now you're just posting the first link that confirms your bias.


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  • #9607
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Amerika wrote: »
    A google search on "EPA corruption" came up with 586,000 results. Here's one for you reading enjoyment.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2013/02/epa_corruption_and_scandal.html

    A Google search for 'alien abduction' gets 2,680,000 results.
    I'm still not concerned about the risks though.

    And - americanthinker.com. Really?


  • #9608
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,552 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Amerika wrote: »
    The EPA has become the most corrupt agency of the Federal Government. When the EPA started it was devoted to protecting people and the environment. Nowadays it lives to protect their own jobs, protect cronyism, and protect the government’s cesspool of manipulation. Yes it should be shut down and their responsibilities given over to the states.

    The same goes for national parks and governments ridiculous rules and regulations that govern them. Sell a good portion of them back to the states.

    Any response to my points about the GOP gutting OSHA and making the US a more dangerous place to work.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • #9609
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    marienbad wrote: »
    You have no way of knowing if GM etc would/would not have disappeared . Just because Ford survived doesn't mean the others would have .

    And then you go on to list a load of manufacturing jobs dependant on those corporations whose bailout you opposed !

    Do you not see anything unusual in your list of industries ? They are all last century jobs . Where is your faith in American ingenuity the Amazons Googles Facebooks of this world , The clean energy jobs , the pharma jobs

    America has always shed obsolete low paying industries and will always do so , that is what has made it the greatest economic powerhouse the world has ever seen and long may it continue .

    GM would have survived. They just would have filed bankruptcy a year earlier, before taking taxpayer money in order to reward the UAW union... before screwing the investors and creditors anyway.

    Amazon, Google, Facebook are not manufacturing jobs, which is what was being discussed.

    Green-energy jobs? Stardust and pixiedust abound.

    Here’s an older list of green-energy companies that have gone bankrupt and the taxpayer money they got from the bailout (the list is probably bigger today). :

    Evergreen Solar ($25 million)*
    SpectraWatt ($500,000)*
    Solyndra ($535 million)*
    Beacon Power ($43 million)*
    Nevada Geothermal ($98.5 million)
    SunPower ($1.2 billion)
    First Solar ($1.46 billion)
    Babcock and Brown ($178 million)
    EnerDel’s subsidiary Ener1 ($118.5 million)*
    Amonix ($5.9 million)
    Fisker Automotive ($529 million)
    Abound Solar ($400 million)*
    A123 Systems ($279 million)*
    Willard and Kelsey Solar Group ($700,981)*
    Johnson Controls ($299 million)
    Brightsource ($1.6 billion)
    ECOtality ($126.2 million)
    Raser Technologies ($33 million)*
    Energy Conversion Devices ($13.3 million)*
    Mountain Plaza, Inc. ($2 million)*
    Olsen’s Crop Service and Olsen’s Mills Acquisition Company ($10 million)*
    Range Fuels ($80 million)*
    Thompson River Power ($6.5 million)*
    Stirling Energy Systems ($7 million)*
    Azure Dynamics ($5.4 million)*
    GreenVolts ($500,000)
    Vestas ($50 million)
    LG Chem’s subsidiary Compact Power ($151 million)
    Nordic Windpower ($16 million)*
    Navistar ($39 million)
    Satcon ($3 million)*
    Konarka Technologies Inc. ($20 million)*
    Mascoma Corp. ($100 million)
    *Denotes companies that have filed for bankruptcy.

    Pharma jobs. How about protection of their product from foreign countries strong-arming US pharma into accepting ridiculously low payments for their drugs or they threaten to just make them themselves and force the pharma companies to sue them in international court against copyright protection, or the insane amount of regulation and costs it takes for a drug to hit the market, or protection against nonsense lawsuits from slimly lawyers to take on anything hoping the pharmas will just throw money at them to make things go away. Do that, then we can talk about jobs.


  • #9610
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    alastair wrote: »
    And - americanthinker.com. Really?
    I suggest you take the time to attack the content and not merely the source. Otherwise it might be better for you to hang out in Politics Cafe.


  • #9611
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,567 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Amerika wrote: »
    Interesting how things go around here. This gets a 'like' from a mod, and similar comments from the other side of the political aisle get warnings to take it to the conspiracy theory forum. Or does one just have to use the word "rumour' and then they can pretty much say anything they want?


    Mod note:

    Please dont comment on moderation in thread. Productive posts only please. As this is something that seems to be creeping into this forum, this is the last on thread warning about this.


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  • #9612
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    Brian? wrote: »
    Any response to my points about the GOP gutting OSHA and making the US a more dangerous place to work.


    Sorry, I didn’t remember you requesting a response from me on OSHA. I know this might be hard to believe but I’m not an expert on everything. ;)

    I will comment on personal experience dealing with OSHA though. They have some good things going for them, but a bunch of their rules are flat out ridiculous. I'm not familiar with the GOP gutting of OSHA, but if it is as you say and forces OSHA to concentrate on the major things that make people safe in the workforce, instead of focusing on the minutia that neither the employer nor the employee thinks does anything to make them safe, then I’m all for it.


  • #9613
    BoatMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Amerika wrote: »
    No it's hyperbole. And I'm no diplomat or Trump adviser. Just someone tired of all the anti-Americanism and the thinking they have a say in our politics. It’s easy to do symbolic things for principles that cost nothing and take no sacrifice. It’s when a country puts its money where its mouth is (so to say) that shows their true character. I’m sure people of Scotland had a lot to say about the Gitmo at the time. How many prisoners did they take? I’ll help you out… it rhymes with Nero.

    Everyone knows Scotland couldn't handle even a small fraction of our illegal immigrants. How about we just turn over one year's worth of our illegal aliens convicted of crimes - not to do with immigration concerns? That amounts to only about 30,000. That's doable, right? (Again, just hyperbole)

    since many of the things the US does affects us ( wherever us are) , we have a interest in US politics . Thats right and proper, the US does not exist alone on the planet


  • #9614
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Amerika wrote: »
    I suggest you take the time to attack the content and not merely the source. Otherwise it might be better for you to hang out in Politics Cafe.

    There is no content. Hadn't you noticed?


  • #9615
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    Suryavarman wrote: »
    In other words you made that claim up and now you're just posting the first link that confirms your bias.

    No I read the article and it is chocked full of pertinent information that can be confirmed from many sources. What exactly from the article do you think is incorrect? (Ironically, I never seem to get a response when I ask this question. And the ad hominem attacks grow like some uncontrolled disease)


  • #9616
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Amerika wrote: »

    Amazon, Google, Facebook are not manufacturing jobs, which is what was being discussed.

    Amazon (Kindle, Fire, Echo) and Google (Nexus, OnHub, Chromebook Pixels, Nest) are certainly manufacturing products.
    Facebook are making hardware too,


  • #9617
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    BoatMad wrote: »
    since many of the things the US does affects us ( wherever us are) , we have a interest in US politics . Thats right and proper, the US does not exist alone on the planet

    With all of that I agree. But saying voters are ignorant or racists or worse for supporting Trump goes beyond what is right and proper. People support Trump because he plans on taking care of America first. I can see how the might concern people in other countries, but it is not right to savagely disparage his supporters because of it.


  • #9618
    Suryavarman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,583 ✭✭✭Suryavarman


    Amerika wrote: »
    No I read the article and it is chocked full of pertinent information that can be confirmed from many sources. What exactly from the article do you think is incorrect? (Ironically, I never seem to get a response when I ask this question. And the ad hominem attacks grow like some uncontrolled disease)

    The article is completely devoid of any information regarding corruption in the EPA. It is replete with hyperbole though.


  • #9619
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    alastair wrote: »
    Amazon (Kindle, Fire, Echo) and Google (Nexus, OnHub, Chromebook Pixels, Nest) are certainly manufacturing products.
    Facebook are making hardware too,

    What are their manufactured products, and do they actually manufacture the product or do they hire out any manufacturing responsibilities, and where are those products manufactured?


  • #9620
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Amerika wrote: »
    No I read the article and it is chocked full of pertinent information that can be confirmed from many sources. What exactly from the article do you think is incorrect? (Ironically, I never seem to get a response when I ask this question. And the ad hominem attacks grow like some uncontrolled disease)

    There is literally nothing of merit in that link regarding the EPA. It's all ideological diatribe. The only meat on the sad bones of the article is yet another wingnut email mining exercise, of no consequence to no-one but the obsessive.


  • #9621
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    alastair wrote: »
    There is no content. Hadn't you noticed?
    I reread it again. There is plenty of content. I guess we've reached that point where we agree to disagree.


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  • #9622
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Amerika wrote: »
    What are their manufactured products, and do they actually manufacture the product or do they hire out any manufacturing responsibilities, and where are those products manufactured?

    Oh, I thought they involved "no manufacturing jobs"? You've a different set of criteria now? Why don't you find out where the jobs are for yourself? They clearly are generating manufacturing jobs all the same - which contradicts your post.


  • #9623
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Amerika wrote: »
    I reread it again. There is plenty of content. I guess we've reached that point where we agree to disagree.

    There's no content. It's not a subjective issue - the piece is an opinion piece without any actual evidence of wrongdoing by the EPA. They don't like the EPA - that much is clear, and no surprise, given the record of the source, but beyond that...?


  • #9624
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,552 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Amerika wrote: »
    Sorry, I didn’t remember you requesting a response from me on OSHA. I know this might be hard to believe but I’m not an expert on everything. ;)

    I will comment on personal experience dealing with OSHA though. They have some good things going for them, but a bunch of their rules are flat out ridiculous. I'm not familiar with the GOP gutting of OSHA, but if it is as you say and forces OSHA to concentrate on the major things that make people safe in the workforce, instead of focusing on the minutia that neither the employer nor the employee thinks does anything to make them safe, then I’m all for it.

    Defunding OSHA does not force them to concentrate on what's important. It reduces their capabilities to enforce regulations. Focusing on minutia is exactly what's required to make workplaces safer; hazmat disposal, arc flash hazard identification etc. .

    You see this is my point. The right loves to beat the drum about "job killing regulations". They don't go into details. A reduction is workplace safety regulation means more people die at work.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • #9625
    BoatMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Amerika wrote: »
    With all of that I agree. But saying voters are ignorant or racists or worse for supporting Trump goes beyond what is right and proper. People support Trump because he plans on taking care of America first. I can see how the might concern people in other countries, but it is not right to savagely disparage his supporters because of it.

    I think any reasonable analysis of Trump, would suggest that "disparaging " his supporters is quite a moderate response.


  • #9626
    BoatMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    alastair wrote: »
    Oh, I thought they involved "no manufacturing jobs"? You've a different set of criteria now? Why don't you find out where the jobs are for yourself? They clearly are generating manufacturing jobs all the same - which contradicts your post.

    America will make " things " again , when the average US person goes into Sears and buys a drill for $200 dollars and not one for $59.99


  • #9627
    alaimacerc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,224 ✭✭✭alaimacerc


    Amerika wrote: »
    With all of that I agree. But saying voters are ignorant or racists or worse for supporting Trump goes beyond what is right and proper.

    Really? How would you say the "ignorance" and "racism" demographics are actually breaking, then?


  • #9628
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    BoatMad wrote: »
    America will make " things " again , when the average US person goes into Sears and buys a drill for $200 dollars and not one for $59.99

    America still makes lots of 'things'. And a $60 drill isn't worth buying. You'll get a perfectly decent US manufactured one for $140 though.


  • #9629
    BoatMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    alastair wrote: »
    America still makes lots of 'things'. And a $60 drill isn't worth buying. You'll get a perfectly decent US manufactured one for $140 though.

    you miss my point, people want " stuff" and they mostly want it cheap. you cannot make cheap and pay the workers good salaries.


  • #9630
    marienbad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    Amerika wrote: »



    Pharma jobs. How about protection of their product from foreign countries strong-arming US pharma into accepting ridiculously low payments for their drugs countries or they threaten to just make them themselves and force the pharma companies to sue them in international court against copyright protection, or the insane amount of regulation and costs it takes for a drug to hit the market, or protection against nonsense lawsuits from slimly lawyers to take on anything hoping the pharmas will just throw money at them to make things go away. Do that, then we can talk about jobs.

    Amerika - that list of companies you put up is all over the place , no doubt some of them are clean energy companies and no doubt there are scandals and mismanagement in that lot . But I couldn't take the time to go through all of them , but some of them jumped right out at me - Babcock& Brown are (were) an Australian investment company that we know well here in Ireland as they bought out Eircom , nothing to do with clean energy . SunPower are still going strong as are First Solar and employing upwards of 6000 people , but I take your point at the same time .

    It is the conclusions you are drawing from it I take issue with . Business and industry really is littered with examples down through the decades of new technologies bursting through before a survival of the fittest process weeds out the weak and enables the strong to prosper .

    Happened with the arms industry , the auto industry , publishing , printing , computer manufacture , dot coms , and on and on .

    You are trying to recreate an America of the 1960's with loads of well paying blue collar jobs - it ain't gonna happen . What can be done about it is the issue , not trying to stop the clock .

    And your Pharma defence is really quite bizarre - these are corporations in both Europe and America than are more than capable of taking care of themselves . Their profits are truly ginormous and lets not be fooled by the old drug development cost argument .


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  • #9631
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    marienbad wrote: »
    Amerika - that list of companies you put up is all over the place , no doubt some of them are clean energy companies and no doubt there are scandals and mismanagement in that lot . But I couldn't take the time to go through all of them , but some of them jumped right out at me - Babcock& Brown are (were) an Australian investment company that we know well here in Ireland as they bought out Eircom , nothing to do with clean energy . SunPower are still going strong as are First Solar and employing upwards of 6000 people , but I take your point at the same time .

    It is the conclusions you are drawing from it I take issue with . Business and industry really is littered with examples down through the decades of new technologies bursting through before a survival of the fittest process weeds out the weak and enables the strong to prosper .

    Happened with the arms industry , the auto industry , publishing , printing , computer manufacture , dot coms , and on and on .

    You are trying to recreate an America of the 1960's with loads of well paying blue collar jobs - it ain't gonna happen . What can be done about it is the issue , not trying to stop the clock .

    And your Pharma defence is really quite bizarre - these are corporations in both Europe and America than are more than capable of taking care of themselves . Their profits are truly ginormous and lets not be fooled by the old drug development cost argument .
    Demand should drive development, not taxpayer dollars funneled into risky private entities. The free market system will create innovation, if it is there, and if it is cost effective.

    Did you know it takes from $1.4 billion to $2.6 billion to bring a drug to market here?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/19/upshot/calculating-the-real-costs-of-developing-a-new-drug.html?_r=0


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