2016 US Presidential Race - Mod Warning in OP

marienbad

Amerika wrote: »

Apparel and footwear are gone forever. It is a low start-up cost industry, comprised primarily of a unskilled labor force, and is best suited today for third world countries.

Manufacturing jobs that require a higher level of technology, skilled labor which are better paying jobs, and abundant supplies of local raw materials are the jobs that need to be brought back to America.

Can you give examples of the type of manufacturing you have in mind ?

And how do you square that with the fact that most republicans were against the Obama bailout of the car industry - the GOP would have just waved it bye bye

alaimacerc

marienbad wrote: »

Can you give examples of the type of manufacturing you have in mind ?

I'd say the unicorns and moonbeams industries would be the leading candidates.

And how do you square that with the fact that most republicans were against the Obama bailout of the car industry - the GOP would have just waved it bye bye

But Trump's like the Supreme Court: bound by no precedent, even his own. Actually, especially not his own. Nor by logic, nor common decency...

K-9

Deleted User wrote: »

What exactly is preventing these jobs being in America today?

Probably a bit like us, wage expectations. So America could get manufacturing jobs back but it would low wages, something Trump's message isn't saying. Well he says we have to be more competitive but he's promising America will be great again as well.

This came up on Brexit as well, one of the few industrialised success stories economically of the last 10 or 20 years is Germany but they became competitive by wage stagnation basically. When a company said either take a wage cut or we go to Poland, people took the wage cut. Not a great message for any politician to sell.

Credit to Trump for increasing his planned tax rates, not many politicians would do that especially in America.

alaimacerc

K-9 wrote: »

Probably a bit like us, wage expectations.

But Amerika explicitly said "better-paying jobs".

Suryavarman

The internet is awash with rumours that Trump refuses to release his tax returns because they contain evidence that he has been donating large sums of money to paedophile organisation NAMBLA. This makes Trump's connections to known sex offender Jeffrey Epstein a lot more suspicious.

Trump released details of his economic advisors the other day. Unsurprisingly the 13 man team only contained 1 economist and a number of hedge fund billionaires. This goes a long way to explaining why his economic policies are so bad but simultaneously so good for the rich.

538's nowcast gives Clinton a 96% chance of winning the election if it were held today. The poll's plus forecast gives her a 79% chance of winning in November. The poll's only forecast even projects her winning Arizona and Georgia in November!

It's probably time Trump dropped out. I don't know how a narcissist could handle the beating he is going to get in November.

Mr Freeze

Suryavarman wrote: »

The internet is awash with rumours that Trump refuses to release his tax returns because they contain evidence that he has been donating large sums of money to paedophile organisation NAMBLA. This makes Trump's connections to known sex offender Jeffrey Epstein a lot more suspicious.

Excuse my naivety, but I did not know such an organisation existed.

Amerika

marienbad wrote: »

Can you give examples of the type of manufacturing you have in mind ?

And how do you square that with the fact that most republicans were against the Obama bailout of the car industry - the GOP would have just waved it bye bye

Automotive and parts manufacturing, steel manufacturing, appliance manufacturing, refinery and mining to name a few. But it could never work without tax incentives and changes to all our job-killing regulations.

The republicans were right to be against the car bailout. Those companies wouldn't have disappeared. GM and Chrysler took the bailout, but Ford did not. Ford is just as strong today as the other two. And Ford didn't have to screw all it's investors, screw all its creditors, and just about turn over the company to the union. Oh, and by the way, GM and Chrysler did file for bankruptcy anyway.

Amerika

Suryavarman wrote: »

The internet is awash with rumours that Trump refuses to release his tax returns because they contain evidence that he has been donating large sums of money to paedophile organisation NAMBLA. This makes Trump's connections to known sex offender Jeffrey Epstein a lot more suspicious.

Interesting how things go around here. This gets a 'like' from a mod, and similar comments from the other side of the political aisle get warnings to take it to the conspiracy theory forum. Or does one just have to use the word "rumour' and then they can pretty much say anything they want?

Quin_Dub

Suryavarman wrote: »

The internet is awash with rumours that Trump refuses to release his tax returns because they contain evidence that he has been donating large sums of money to paedophile organisation NAMBLA. This makes Trump's connections to known sex offender Jeffrey Epstein a lot more suspicious.

Spurious rumour, started by a bot

Suryavarman

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Excuse my naivety, but I did not know such an organisation existed.

Sadly they do. They even featured in an episode on South Park.

Amerika wrote: »

Interesting how things go around here. This gets a 'like' from a mod, and similar comments from the other side of the political aisle get warnings to take it to the conspiracy theory forum. Or does one just have to use the word "rumour' and then they can pretty much say anything they want?

Do you have any evidence that Trump isn't donating to NAMBLA? What is he trying to hide by not releasing his tax returns? Do you not find his close friendship with a known sex offender to be suspicious?

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Spurious rumour, started by a bot

If they are just rumours then why doesn't Trump deny them? Why doesn't he release his tax returns to prove everyone wrong? There's no smoke without fire.

alaimacerc

Amerika wrote: »

But it could never work without tax incentives and changes to all our job-killing regulations.

So unfettered free-market capitalism, at least when it comes to pesky things like "workers" and "consumers"... but lavish corporate welfare and populist nationalist protectionism. Seems legit...

ancapailldorcha

Amerika wrote: »

Interesting how things go around here. This gets a 'like' from a mod, and similar comments from the other side of the political aisle get warnings to take it to the conspiracy theory forum. Or does one just have to use the word "rumour' and then they can pretty much say anything they want?

I thanked that post as it was informative and more substantiative than the snippet you've quoted. If you want to question how this forum is being moderated then contact a CMod.

Suryavarman

Suryavarman wrote: »

Do you have any evidence that Trump isn't donating to NAMBLA?

That's just poor arguing.

If they are just rumours then why doesn't Trump deny them? Why doesn't he release his tax returns to prove everyone wrong? There's no smoke without fire.

So if we start a rumour here he should deny it?

Brian?

alaimacerc wrote: »

So unfettered free-market capitalism, at least when it comes to pesky things like "workers" and "consumers"... but lavish corporate welfare and populist nationalist protectionism. Seems legit...

What I find amazing us how many of these "job killing" regulations are actually life saving regulations.

The GOP wants to defund the EPA and Trump has said he wants to abolish the department of the environment as they stifle jib creation. What's next? Abolish OSHA? That would be madness, directly putting works lives at risk. Especially in the manufacturing Trump so badly wants to bring home. Sound awful, doesn't it?

Well the GOP have spent years defunding OSHA. They may save your job, but you may not live to do it. Surely if that job is worth saving, my life is worth saving? Not if the GOP get their way:

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2015/07/osha_safety_standards_how_politics_have_undermined_the_agency_s_ability.html

Mind you the democrats are not that much better.

I find it laughable how often rich kids like Trump talk about reducing regulation when they've never worked in manufacturing or their children will never have to.

marienbad

Amerika wrote: »

Automotive and parts manufacturing, steel manufacturing, appliance manufacturing, refinery and mining to name a few. But it could never work without tax incentives and changes to all our job-killing regulations.

The republicans were right to be against the car bailout. Those companies wouldn't have disappeared. GM and Chrysler took the bailout, but Ford did not. Ford is just as strong today as the other two. And Ford didn't have to screw all it's investors, screw all its creditors, and just about turn over the company to the union. Oh, and by the way, GM and Chrysler did file for bankruptcy anyway.

You have no way of knowing if GM etc would/would not have disappeared . Just because Ford survived doesn't mean the others would have .

And then you go on to list a load of manufacturing jobs dependant on those corporations whose bailout you opposed !

Do you not see anything unusual in your list of industries ? They are all last century jobs . Where is your faith in American ingenuity the Amazons Googles Facebooks of this world , The clean energy jobs , the pharma jobs

America has always shed obsolete low paying industries and will always do so , that is what has made it the greatest economic powerhouse the world has ever seen and long may it continue .

K-9

Amerika wrote: »

Interesting how things go around here. This gets a 'like' from a mod, and similar comments from the other side of the political aisle get warnings to take it to the conspiracy theory forum. Or does one just have to use the word "rumour' and then they can pretty much say anything they want?

The last list of theories about the Clintons was left for people to challenge, which somebody did. You are free to challenge that one but it seems somebody showed it was a prank anyway.

Brian?

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That's just poor arguing.

So if we start a rumour here he should deny it?

I think you're missing the irony here. Look back at Trump's statements about Obama's birth certificate. The language he used then was precisely the same as the bot thay had created this rumour. It's a taste of his own medicine. There's no smoke without fire Donald.

ebbsy

There is a lot of people out there who believe everything that is written about Trump to be true.

If you told these people that the moon was made of cheese they would believe that as well.

As long as he is front and center that's all he wants.

Nody

Amerika wrote: »

Automotive and parts manufacturing, steel manufacturing

Is already overcrowded and then some as it stands; China can do this way cheaper.

appliance manufacturing

Is Robot work to be automated; does not require any real human labor and is definitely not high tech skill requirement to it.

refinery and mining

Mine what exactly? Rare earths are not in the soil to start with and mines in general are going on their knees globally as for refinery it's once again cheaper to pollute somewhere else and ship it over. None of the above are in anyway high tech industries or will return to high salaries (which was what bankrupted the American automotive industry to start with!).

So in essence all you can come up with are work that shipped out over 20 years ago (and for a good reason) that today would return as low paid minimum wage work and at 10% of the workforce compared to when it went due to automation. And this only if they get enough state funding to make it worth bringing back; if this is the general idea of how to bring back manufacturing to USA then I suggest you do another round on the drawing table.If you want manufacturing jobs in the USA you need to get consumers to pay the premium for it; show me a plan for that and you might have a chance to make it work and a good starting point would be the farming industry exploiting illegal labour to be able to sell at the current prices. Get the average US consumer to pay a 50% premium for "Made in the USA" on fruit and you're on the way; of course that's unlikely to ever happen...

Amerika

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I thanked that post as it was informative and more substantiative than the snippet you've quoted. If you want to question how this forum is being moderated then contact a CMod.

No need... Just trying to keep things fair and balanced.

ancapailldorcha

Amerika wrote: »

No need... Just trying to keep things fair and balanced.

As was pointed out by K-9, the Clinton theory was left open to be challenge. The original post was just one line and carried the implication that there was a conspiracy hence my suggesting the relevant forum.

Suryavarman

Deleted User wrote: »

That's just poor arguing.

So if we start a rumour here he should deny it?

As Brian has pointed out I'm just doing as Trump would. I assume there's nothing wrong with doing that. Unless a Boards.ie poster is to be held to a higher standard than a US presidential candidate.

In the last few days Trump has baselessly claimed that an Iranian nuclear scientist was killed over the Clinton email leak. He also claimed to have seen a video of a plane being loaded up with cash to be given to the Iranians. He also claimed that that cash was given as a ransom even though he very well knows it wasn't.

Why should we give Trump any better treatment than he gives anyone else?

alastair

Amerika wrote: »

Apparel and footwear are gone forever. It is a low start-up cost industry, comprised primarily of a unskilled labor force, and is best suited today for third world countries.

Manufacturing jobs that require a higher level of technology, skilled labor which are better paying jobs, and abundant supplies of local raw materials are the jobs that need to be brought back to America.

Not gone yet:
http://www.acontinuouslean.com/the-american-list/

Amerika

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

As was pointed out by K-9, the Clinton theory was left open to be challenge. The original post was just one line and carried the implication that there was a conspiracy hence my suggesting the relevant forum.

The Clinton coincidence had news value and was reported on by a number of legitimate media sources. The NAMBLA thing was pure unadulterated poppycock. Your justification between the two has little merit IMO, and there should be nothing wrong with pointing out the double standards that sometimes exists here. But I do understand, as it is only human nature for the powers the be to internalize an establishment orientation, keep the peace so-to-say, and a stricter code of conduct is sometimes applied to the contrary individual who stands out. And moderators are only human… or so I’ve been told.

And I don't believe Jerry Epstein will be much of a topic in this election, as both Trump and Bill Clinton have established ties with him, and similar spurious rumors exist about both of them.

Amerika

alastair wrote: »

Not gone yet:
http://www.acontinuouslean.com/the-american-list/

Most of the apparel companies in your link are very small and most people have never heard of them. But some of the companies I’m familiar with and have had dealings with. Do you wonder what the little ‘*’ means after the description of their products? It doesn’t say off hand that I can see, but I would be fairly assured in saying from relationships with some of these companies, that it has to do with the fact that the majority of their apparel is not made here, and just a small percentage of their offerings are made in the US. But yes, there is some apparel and footwear made here in the US. Less than 10% to be accurate.

And if you get a chance look at the prices of the apparel and footwear for the product actually made in America from the companies you linked? I think it will back up my previous claim.

alastair

Amerika wrote: »

Most of the apparel companies in your link are very small and most people have never heard of them. But some of the companies I’m familiar with and have had dealings with. Do you wonder what the little ‘*’ means after the description of their products? It doesn’t say off hand that I can see, but I would be fairly assured in saying from relationships with some of these companies, that it has to do with the fact that the majority of their apparel is not made here, and just a small percentage of their offerings are made in the US. But yes, there is some apparel and footwear made here in the US. Less than 10% to be accurate.

And if you get a chance look at the prices of the apparel and footwear for the product actually made in America from the companies you linked? I think it will back up my previous claim.

It doesn't tbh.

The companies listed make all their apparel in the USA. If you want to extend the number of US apparel companies who manufacture in both the US and elsewhere, the listing would be much more substantial:
http://madeinusachallenge.com/mens-clothing-made-in-usa/
http://madeinusachallenge.com/womens-clothing-made-in-usa/
http://madeinusachallenge.com/childrens-clothing-made-in-usa/

And as to scale - that's really not that important. American Apparel is a pretty massive retailer, and manage to manufacture entirely in the US, but the legion of smaller apparel businesses amount to a significant amount of manufacturing too. I was impressed by a recent visit to Portland, OR, by the amount of retail options that were localised and thriving - and this in the home of a number of major multinational apparel corporations.

InTheTrees

alaimacerc wrote: »

Amerika wrote: »

But it could never work without tax incentives and changes to all our job-killing regulations.

So unfettered free-market capitalism, at least when it comes to pesky things like "workers" and "consumers"... but lavish corporate welfare and populist nationalist protectionism. Seems legit...

Also don't forget abandoning environmental protections and selling off the national parks.

Amerika

InTheTrees wrote: »

Also don't forget abandoning environmental protections and selling off the national parks.

The EPA has become the most corrupt agency of the Federal Government. When the EPA started it was devoted to protecting people and the environment. Nowadays it lives to protect their own jobs, protect cronyism, and protect the government’s cesspool of manipulation. Yes it should be shut down and their responsibilities given over to the states.

The same goes for national parks and governments ridiculous rules and regulations that govern them. Sell a good portion of them back to the states.

alaimacerc

Amerika wrote: »

No need... Just trying to keep things fair and balanced.

In the sense of "rebroadcasting the talking points of the faux-news network with that slogan"?

marienbad

Amerika wrote: »

The EPA has become the most corrupt agency of the Federal Government. When the EPA started it was devoted to protecting people and the environment. Nowadays it lives to protect their own jobs, protect cronyism, and protect the government’s cesspool of manipulation. Yes it should be shut down and their responsibilities given over to the states.

The same goes for national parks and governments ridiculous rules and regulations that govern them. Sell a good portion of them back to the states.

Any links to back that up