Dublin GAA Discussion Thread MOD WARNING POST #2944

dring · 06-08-2016 09:07PM

Good way to win, not too impressive, asked plenty of questions, showed good character in the last 10 mins. Three weeks now to the Kerry match is ideal with plenty to work on. I didn t see the Murphy tackle but slow motion can sometimes imply an intent that wasn t there. Connolly can only have himself to blame as he was on a yellow and coming straight after the goal it made it even worse. O Gara s was ridiculously soft but it was the umpires not the ref s decision. Both players will know they need to do better. Overall what won it for Dublin were some fine points from play(Connolly, Kilkenny, Kevin Mac) while Donegal had some awful wides in similar situations. Likely if Donegal hadn t got the goal that Dublin would have tipped away to win by 9 or 10.

Edit- just saw this now and has to be a red with ball nowhere near.
https://vine.co/v/5qDMKmmtJnd

[img]blob:https%3A//vine.co/613f083b-4f1e-480e-a0d4-ec7319598549[/img]

Slattsy · 06-08-2016 09:31PM

Murphy gets away with a tackle like that every week.

As I already said during the week, he's astonishingly overrated. Think his head is elsewhere.

keane2097 · 06-08-2016 09:34PM

Slattsy wrote: »

Murphy gets away with a tackle like that every week.

As I already said during the week, he's astonishingly overrated. Think his head is elsewhere.

Agree about his head. He put in a very dirty blow in Connolly into the gut a year or two ago but tbf I don't think he's a particularly dirty player.

I think a lot of guys put in loose tackles like that hoping to catch a piece of the guy. That one caught more than expected I think.

corny · 06-08-2016 09:48PM

dring wrote: »

Good way to win, not too impressive, asked plenty of questions, showed good character in the last 10 mins. Three weeks now to the Kerry match is ideal with plenty to work on. I didn t see the Murphy tackle but slow motion can sometimes imply an intent that wasn t there. Connolly can only have himself to blame as he was on a yellow and coming straight after the goal it made it even worse. O Gara s was ridiculously soft but it was the umpires not the ref s decision. Both players will know they need to do better. Overall what won it for Dublin were some fine points from play(Connolly, Kilkenny, Kevin Mac) while Donegal had some awful wides in similar situations. Likely if Donegal hadn t got the goal that Dublin would have tipped away to win by 9 or 10.

Edit- just saw this now and has to be a red with ball nowhere near.
https://vine.co/v/5qDMKmmtJnd

[img]blob:https%3A//vine.co/613f083b-4f1e-480e-a0d4-ec7319598549[/img]

People keep saying that but no he doesn't have himself to blame. He has poor officiating and the rules rewarding cheating to blame.

The same thing happened to Chris Crummey in Cork a few weeks ago. Folds his man in half with a perfect shoulder (reminiscent of the Rocks' against Limerick imo). Ref produces a second yellow under huge pressure from 10,000 Cork men and the analysis from all sides afterwards is he should have known better. Its lazy. It either is or isn't a double yellow. What Connolly 'knows' is irrelevant.

EICVD · 06-08-2016 09:49PM

Slattsy wrote: »

Murphy gets away with a tackle like that every week.

As I already said during the week, he's astonishingly overrated. Think his head is elsewhere.

Should of got a straight red last week for whacking a Cork lad with his elbow, dirtiest player in the country IMO

Kh1993 · 06-08-2016 09:57PM

I'd move on from the tackles. Connolly silly but will be back, EOG, silly. Murphy, thuggish but he's out of the Champo, his loss.

Very impressed with small today, lead well in the HB line. Kev Mc and kilkenny immense. I'd bring McCarthy in for Connolly next day and rest as was.

corny · 06-08-2016 10:16PM

Kh1993 wrote: »

I'd move on from the tackles. Connolly silly but will be back, EOG, silly. Murphy, thuggish but he's out of the Champo, his loss.

Very impressed with small today, lead well in the HB line. Kev Mc and kilkenny immense. I'd bring McCarthy in for Connolly next day and rest as was.

Me too. Have to say i had reservations about him earlier in the year; thought he really lacked conviction. Now....McCaffrey for the bench next year.;)

Interested to hear opinions on how Dublin played in the second half. I've been saying it for ages now if you're ahead and the opposition retreats 14/15 men behind the ball just don't attack them. Its incumbent upon them to chase the game and get back into it. Attacking them plays into their gameplan so why do it? If it means passing the ball in defence for 20 minutes then do that if they refuse to come out.

I bring it up because the crowd were actually booing Dublin when they passed it around.

Weird that. Its like they missed the fact Donegal were responsible for trying to kill the spectacle.

Godge · 06-08-2016 10:20PM

corny wrote: »

Me too. Have to say i had reservations about him earlier in the year; thought he really lacked conviction. Now....McCaffrey for the bench next year.;)

Interested to hear opinions on how Dublin played in the second half. I've been saying it for ages now if you're ahead and the opposition retreats 14/15 men behind the ball just don't attack them. Its incumbent upon them to chase the game and get back into it. Attacking them plays into their gameplan so why do it? If it means passing the ball in defence for 20 minutes then do that if they refuse to come out.

I bring it up because the crowd were actually booing Dublin when they passed it around. Weird that. Its like they missed the fact Donegal were responsible for trying to kill the spectacle.

It was only the non-Dublin section that was booing Dublin. The Dublin support tried to get a series of oles going.

Dyr · 06-08-2016 10:25PM

Kev mcm was pure class, those two points he curled in were things of beauty. Broke their blanket repeatedly

Think that Kilkennys man skinned him in the first half a few times but overall a great display.

Fenton bossed midfield for a fella who's not that big

MDMA has the same relationship with halfback lines as the titanic has with icebergs..he sees them but still just plows ahead

O'Sullivans spazzout and cluxtons minor one later on are a worry

It was a joy to watch the Donegal kick out strategy being cleaned out completely

Kh1993 · 06-08-2016 10:26PM

corny wrote: »

Me too. Have to say i had reservations about him earlier in the year; thought he really lacked conviction. Now....McCaffrey for the bench next year.;)

Interested to hear opinions on how Dublin played in the second half. I've been saying it for ages now if you're ahead and the opposition retreats 14/15 men behind the ball just don't attack them. Its incumbent upon them to chase the game and get back into it. Attacking them plays into their gameplan so why do it? If it means passing the ball in defence for 20 minutes then do that if they refuse to come out.

I bring it up because the crowd were actually booing Dublin when they passed it around. Weird that. Its like they missed the fact Donegal were responsible for trying to kill the spectacle.

Bar COS silly pass for their goal, we played quite cleverly with 14. Kept the ball, kept them quiet, killed the game, created a few chances (some wides, then Mannion and Kev Mc took the key chances). Never felt we were going to lose which is a decent feeling considering we'd 14 for 20 mins? Absolutely gas Donegal booing keep ball!

Their goalie took a minute for every first half kick out. Their bizarre Maor uisce held up the game at every opportunity, even when they were 5 down!

corny · 06-08-2016 10:27PM

Godge wrote: »

It was only the non-Dublin section that was booing Dublin. The Dublin support tried to get a series of oles going.

I suppose. A couple of mates of mine didn't agree with me though.

The booing indicates the mindset is more my point. There was a tangible sense (imo) that Dublin were obligated to attack because they had the ball. Whereas i believe that for teams who profess win at all costs, the only logical way of playing against teams who retreat is do EVERYTHING you can to get them to come out.

Hasn't quite become the norm yet but its inevitable and one of these days we're going to have such a farce of a game the GAA is gonna have to make teams keep at least 3 or 4 players in the opposition half.

keysersoze0330 · 06-08-2016 10:27PM

EICVD wrote: »

Should of got a straight red last week for whacking a Cork lad with his elbow, dirtiest player in the country IMO

Have to agree with this. Has a red card in him every game he plays.

stretchdoe · 06-08-2016 10:46PM

Slattsy wrote: »

Murphy gets away with a tackle like that every week.

As I already said during the week, he's astonishingly overrated. Think his head is elsewhere.

Far from overrated.

Don't know about his head but he's obviously been carrying an injury this year.

stretchdoe · 06-08-2016 10:54PM

EICVD wrote: »

Should of got a straight red last week for whacking a Cork lad with his elbow, dirtiest player in the country IMO

Far, far from it; i don't even have to go into details.

Brusna · 06-08-2016 10:55PM

Congrats Dublin, good win today. Well done.

Powerhouse · 06-08-2016 11:02PM

JRant wrote: »

Lots and lots of pints on the way.

Delighted to get the win. It will really stand to the lads.

Kilkenny put in a performance that I didn't think he had in him. Just heard he had over 50 possessions!!! Don't think he lost the ball once. Some serious talent in that young lad.

How on earth could Kilkenny have possibly lost possession? Every pass he gave was to an unmarked Dublin player in line with him or behind him. Those were no risk passes. He played his role and did okay but the nature of the role (as fulcrum) guaranteed he would have a shed load of possession and play minimal risk passes. Anyone playing that role which sometimes involved swapping immediate passes with a colleague right besiðe him will quickly rack up the 'possessions'.

Godge · 06-08-2016 11:04PM

Powerhouse wrote: »

How on earth could Kilkenny have possibly lost possession? Every pass he gave was to an unmarked Dublin player in line with him or behind him. Those were no risk passes. He played his role and did okay but the nature of the role (as fulcrum) guaranteed he would have a shed load of possession and play minimal risk passes. Anyone playing that role which sometimes involved swapping immediate passes with a colleague right besiðe him will quickly rack up the 'possessions'.

He is key to how Dublin break down defences. The quickness of exchange of passes, often taking out a defender, creates opportunities for others.

Dyr · 06-08-2016 11:05PM

EICVD wrote: »

Should of got a straight red last week for whacking a Cork lad with his elbow, dirtiest player in the country IMO

Not even the dirtiest player on the donegal team, step forward Mr N McGee

Powerhouse · 06-08-2016 11:13PM

dring wrote: »

Connolly can only have himself to blame

I think it's a little more complex than that. Donegal would be disappointed not to get some credit for Connolly's dismissal too as they constantly goaded him and wrestled him to try to get him on a card and then tried to start a row when he tackled the other player later to make sure the referee would take action.

And if you believe Connolly has "only himself to blame" then surely the same applies to O'Gara? Remember that "attempting to strike" never mind actually striking is a red card so technically the perceived power of the strike is irrelevant.

Paulzx · 06-08-2016 11:19PM

Powerhouse wrote: »

How on earth could Kilkenny have possibly lost possession? Every pass he gave was to an unmarked Dublin player in line with him or behind him. Those were no risk passes. He played his role and did okay but the nature of the role (as fulcrum) guaranteed he would have a shed load of possession and play minimal risk passes. Anyone playing that role which sometimes involved swapping immediate passes with a colleague right besiðe him will quickly rack up the 'possessions'.

I sort of agree with you. Kilkenny played a very defensive role today and spent most of the game on the halfway line handpassing the ball backwards or sideways. He's obviously operating to instructions but I actually found it very frustrating watching him in Croker today.

He's a class act and a player I generally really enjoy watching but the job he done today certainly didn't turn me on!!!

Powerhouse · 06-08-2016 11:23PM

Godge wrote: »

He is key to how Dublin break down defences. The quickness of exchange of passes, often taking out a defender, creates opportunities for others.

He scarcely took one defender out tonight. Virtually every pass was lateral or backwards. Not saying he was bad - he was obviously doing the management's bidding but let's not conflate loads of possessions and passes with creating opportunities. He was very much in keep-ball mode tonight. His role required supreme fitness and a bit of smarts but it hid rather than demonstrated his better qualities in my view. There was a moment of general despair in the crowd towards the end when Dublin were moving forward and then Kilkenny got the ball and hared off back towards his own goal (though I'm sure the statisticians were well impressed) Thanks be to Jaysus Donegal are gone when that's what they manage to do to one of the best forwards in the game.

DoctaDee · 06-08-2016 11:34PM

corny wrote: »

Me too. Have to say i had reservations about him earlier in the year; thought he really lacked conviction. Now....McCaffrey for the bench next year.;)

Interested to hear opinions on how Dublin played in the second half. I've been saying it for ages now if you're ahead and the opposition retreats 14/15 men behind the ball just don't attack them. Its incumbent upon them to chase the game and get back into it. Attacking them plays into their gameplan so why do it? If it means passing the ball in defence for 20 minutes then do that if they refuse to come out.

I bring it up because the crowd were actually booing Dublin when they passed it around. Weird that. Its like they missed the fact Donegal were responsible for trying to kill the spectacle.

Couldn't agree more on both points - Small offered himself tirelessly as the out ball - the only slight criticism I'd have was him bringing it into contact a few times in the 1st half, but an absolute pearl of a game from him otherwise.

RG's revised game plan for a lot of the match was to play all 15 Donegal players inside their own 45 and this when they were looking to make in roads into a 3-4 point lead. Even with the man advantage they steadfastly refused to commit men forward - why on earth anyone would think the onus was on Dublin to press on when the exact opposite was the case beggars belief - If DC hadda bagged either of the 2 1st half chances we could've smoked the cigar at half time

Dyr · 06-08-2016 11:34PM

Kh1993 wrote: »

Their goalie took a minute for every first half kick out. Their bizarre Maor uisce held up the game at every opportunity, even when they were 5 down!

He wasn't a maor uisce, no bib. He was running right across the pitch on every dublin kick-out and got away with it, was also looping around the pitch and behind the hill

Needs to be addressed comprehensively rather than just plug loopholes after the fact. There needs to be a professional conduct/disrepute rule so team staff like donegal can't constantly engage in this gamesmanship.

JRant · 06-08-2016 11:43PM

Powerhouse wrote: »

How on earth could Kilkenny have possibly lost possession? Every pass he gave was to an unmarked Dublin player in line with him or behind him. Those were no risk passes. He played his role and did okay but the nature of the role (as fulcrum) guaranteed he would have a shed load of possession and play minimal risk passes. Anyone playing that role which sometimes involved swapping immediate passes with a colleague right besiðe him will quickly rack up the 'possessions'.

That's not really a fair assessment of how he played though. His role is extremely difficult IMO. Watch the way he tries to goad the blanket defence out of position and if they don't budge he's more than happy to recycle possession. He'll keep doing it to frustrate the opposition then when it's on he pop a pass to set up an attack. It takes great patience and reading of a game to be able to do it.

Plus these are not just any auld players he's up against. They're the best each county has to offer and you'll not see many (if any) other player with the ability to do it.

Godge · 07-08-2016 12:15AM

Powerhouse wrote: »

He scarcely took one defender out tonight. Virtually every pass was lateral or backwards. Not saying he was bad - he was obviously doing the management's bidding but let's not conflate loads of possessions and passes with creating opportunities. He was very much in keep-ball mode tonight. His role required supreme fitness and a bit of smarts but it hid rather than demonstrated his better qualities in my view. There was a moment of general despair in the crowd towards the end when Dublin were moving forward and then Kilkenny got the ball and hared off back towards his own goal (though I'm sure the statisticians were well impressed) Thanks be to Jaysus Donegal are gone when that's what they manage to do to one of the best forwards in the game.

That moment was brilliant judgement. Dublin were six points up following the goal and Kilkenny knew that risky plays were the wrong option.

Only anti-Dubs would fault him today.

Powerhouse · 07-08-2016 12:30AM

JRant wrote: »

That's not really a fair assessment of how he played though. His role is extremely difficult IMO. Watch the way he tries to goad the blanket defence out of position and if they don't budge he's more than happy to recycle possession. He'll keep doing it to frustrate the opposition then when it's on he pop a pass to set up an attack. It takes great patience and reading of a game to be able to do it.

Plus these are not just any auld players he's up against. They're the best each county has to offer and you'll not see many (if any) other player with the ability to do it.

I realise the nature of the role he was playing, but the way I see it "recycling possession" is really just charmschool-speak for punching the ball to an unmarked colleague five or fifteen yards away. The only reason I took issue with the praise he was getting is that the possessions he was praised for were an inevitable function of the role. Of course he was going to get more possessions than Bernard Brigan or Jonny Cooper because he was the go-to man and everyone was passing through him.

To praise him for the number of possessions is like praising the goalkeeper for the number of times he kicks out the ball. Similarly praising him for not losing possession fails to take into account that he was playing zero-risk football almost all the time. Many times he could hardly have given away possession as there was no Donegal player challenging. Many times he has so much time that he had the football in one hand and was directing colleagues with the other. Not saying that doesn't require having your wits about you but let's acknowledge the inevitability of possessions and accurate passes in this context. I think it is way over the top that he is singled out by someone for his performance and think that is a triumph of statistical thinking over creativity.

I'm not saying he didn't do the appointed job well enough but praising him for getting on the ball a lot and not losing possession with his passes is like praising the postman for posting letters. Any player playing that role would rack up largely similar statistics because of its nature. I'd be more inclined to praise McManamam for breaking the line regularly with his runs (which runs genuine risk of dispossession) or Duarmuid Connolly's long-range points.

Sorry for the long reply but I am trying to get across that I am not saying he played badly but that I see his performance in a certain context where a high level of possessions and pass accuracy were inevitable given his role. I am not saying that his performance did not require discipline and patience. But those characteristics are not what he was being praised for in the post to which I initially replied.

Stoner · 07-08-2016 12:34AM

Powerhouse wrote:

He scarcely took one defender out tonight. Virtually every pass was lateral or backwards. Not saying he was bad - he was obviously doing the management's bidding but let's not conflate loads of possessions and passes with creating opportunities. He was very much in keep-ball mode tonight. His role required supreme fitness and a bit of smarts but it hid rather than demonstrated his better qualities in my view..

I agree with you 100 percent. I remember that moment too.
To me it was like the pacesetter. His simple play calmed things down, set the tempo, Dublin were winning and Donegal couldn't change that without the ball. He sent messages out to the other players
So I agree that I wouldn't get carried away with praise, it was very disciplined, I'd say Jim McGuiness would love him.
Funny thing when he's in the forwards he's a terrible man for dropping shots short and setting up counter attacks. Against Donegal keeping him away from shooting might even have been a good idea!.

Powerhouse · 07-08-2016 12:35AM

Godge wrote: »

That moment was brilliant judgement.

.

Oh God. I will pull out of this one by adhering to the old "when you're explaining you're losing" advice especially when I am accused of "faulting" him and implicitly being "anti-Dub" (I am from his own club and know h since he was knee high).

Godge · 07-08-2016 12:55AM

Powerhouse wrote: »

Oh God. I will pull out of this one by adhering to the old "when you're explaining you're losing" advice especially when I am accused of "faulting" him and implicitly being "anti-Dub" (I am from his own club and know h since he was knee high).

So am I.

Dyr · 07-08-2016 01:06AM

Think Kilkenny showed a lot of good judgement today, he was constantly probing and tempting the Donegal players to break formation then moving the ball on if nothing was on, Dublin kept the score board ticking over through his link play and Kev's bursts

Dublin GAA Discussion Thread MOD WARNING POST #2944

Comments