Not another Immigrant thread!

mitchconnor16 · 31-07-2016 03:02PM

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

mitchconnor16 wrote: »

EU nationals with felonies shouldn't be allowed into the country in the first place. You'll find with most of them who enter the country who go onto to commit crime already have racked up a couple of convictions back home. Reintroducing proper border controls like most sane countries do is only way to rid us of this vermin.

Under current EU law such a person can be refused residency. Does it happen yes just because you don't read about it does not mean it does not happen.

Rarely happens because criminals have a habit of not declaring felonies when they're not obliged too.

Chuchote · 31-07-2016 03:05PM

Pelvis Parsley wrote: »

Let the hand wringers overuse and abuse it all they want, they'll only undermine their own blinkered little worldview in the long run.

Once one starts calling people names ("hand wringers") one's lost any debate.

I'd completely agree that someone who already has a string of convictions in the recent past shouldn't be allowed into the country; and that anyone who commits violent, serious crimes should be sent home. But to extend this to people's occasional slips or mistakes or one-time wrongdoing is wrong.

mitchconnor16 wrote: »

Rarely happens because criminals have a habit of not declaring felonies when they're not obliged too.

Tis for that Europol exists.

Pro Hoc Vice · 31-07-2016 03:05PM

mitchconnor16 wrote: »

Rarely happens because criminals have a habit of not declaring felonies with they're not obliged too.

"nearly 6,000 European Economic Area nationals have been prevented from entering Britain since 2010."

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/reality-check/2016/mar/29/eu-dangerous-criminals-allowed-free-entry-uk-vote-leave-claims

mitchconnor16 · 31-07-2016 03:08PM

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

mitchconnor16 wrote: »

Rarely happens because criminals have a habit of not declaring felonies with they're not obliged too.

"nearly 6,000 European Economic Area nationals have been prevented from entering Britain since 2010."

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/reality-check/2016/mar/29/eu-dangerous-criminals-allowed-free-entry-uk-vote-leave-claims

Ireland isn't Britain though.

Pro Hoc Vice · 31-07-2016 03:11PM

mitchconnor16 wrote: »

Ireland isn't Britain though.

It happens in Ireland I have seen exclusion orders issued by minister for justice.

http://www.staredecisishibernia.com/order-removal-exclusion-romanian-father-state-not-unfair/[URL][/url]

LuckyRoche · 31-07-2016 03:25PM

A lot of Irish criminals are living in Spain and the Netherlands. Is it racist if they deport them or refuse them entry? I don't think so.

mynamejeff · 31-07-2016 03:28PM

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

It happens in Ireland I have seen exclusion orders issued by minister for justice.

http://www.staredecisishibernia.com/order-removal-exclusion-romanian-father-state-not-unfair/[URL][/url]

not regularly though
and they can be delayed indefinitely through the courts

and in any case it is very easy to return to Ireland with a new name from Europe . Be safe enough going through the ports on your own passport even.

Unless some one enforces these orders whats the point , Customs have neither he numbers nor resources to to it , neither do the gardai

Chuchote · 31-07-2016 03:49PM

mynamejeff wrote: »

not regularly though
and they can be delayed indefinitely through the courts

and in any case it is very easy to return to Ireland with a new name from Europe . Be safe enough going through the ports on your own passport even.

Unless some one enforces these orders whats the point , Customs have neither he numbers nor resources to to it , neither do the gardai

Is this really true? I've often seen customs officers order people out of line and stop people

mynamejeff · 31-07-2016 04:08PM

Chuchote wrote: »

Is this really true? I've often seen customs officers order people out of line and stop people

not because of a exclusion order . customs checks, immigration issues security concerns.
theres 5 or 10 people a week refused in the airports and ports but usually for fraudulent claims of asylum or the like

Im sure one or two exclusion orders breaches a year but not common or frequent

DEFTLEFTHAND · 01-08-2016 07:07AM

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Whoah whoah whoah, now wait a second. These are white people you're talking about, not Mexicans.

A Mexican is technically a Caucasian. Same facial features and hair growth pattern.

Spaniards and southern Italians show the same swarthy features and they're considered as 'white'

A pure Celt is swarthy with dark hair. The Irish have no genetic link to the Celts, only trade and cultural connections.

dodzy · 01-08-2016 07:24AM

Chuchote wrote: »

I find Ireland much nicer since we started getting lots of immigrants — better restaurants, better food available in shops, cheery people speaking different languages, wider culture, more and different films and music… Improved the place no end, dar liom!

you forgot about the hot chicks!!!!!

munchkin_utd · 01-08-2016 10:27AM

georgiecasey wrote: »

EU or outside? If EU names then they can't be deported. anyway, inb4 20 page thread before the lock, same few usernames posting, etc etc

I'd double check that statement .

The procedure is called an "EU Removal Order" and 69 EU citizens were expelled to their home country last year under the act.
http://www.thejournal.ie/deported-stats-inis-report-2637069-Mar2016/
from a previous year, the breakdown in nationalities for that year
http://www.nascireland.org/parliamentary-questions/pq-removal-orders-eu-citizens/

so, there you go, may as well close the thread now seeing as its all under control !

LuckyRoche · 01-08-2016 12:31PM

A Romanian nut job who sliced up his wife was sentenced during the week. He had previous convictions and the Romanian authorities warned the Gardai about him. But of course nothing was done and he went on to commit a serious violent assault.

But everything's grand!

Chuchote · 01-08-2016 12:32PM

LuckyRoche wrote: »

A Romanian nut job who sliced up his wife was sentenced during the week. He had previous convictions and the Romanian authorities warned the Gardai about him. But of course nothing was done and he went on to commit a serious violent assault.

But everything's grand!

This has also happened a lot of times with Irish nut jobs.

LuckyRoche · 01-08-2016 12:34PM

Chuchote wrote: »

This has also happened a lot of times with Irish nut jobs.

No ****. Really? Here's the thing. We have enough of our own nut jobs without taking in other countries nut jobs.

goose2005 · 01-08-2016 12:46PM

Chuchote wrote: »

I find Ireland much nicer since we started getting lots of immigrants — better restaurants, better food available in shops, cheery people speaking different languages, wider culture, more and different films and music… Improved the place no end, dar liom!

That's the typical middle-class answer - you get all the nice aspects of mass immigration, but of course you live in a 90% native area, send your kids to a 95% native school and don't have to compete for unskilled work with immigrants

goose2005 · 01-08-2016 12:47PM

mitchconnor16 wrote: »

EU nationals with felonies shouldn't be allowed into the country in the first place. You'll find with most of them who enter the country who go onto to commit crime already have racked up a couple of convictions back home. Reintroducing proper border controls like most sane countries do is only way to rid us of this vermin.

good thing then that "felonies" don't exist under Irish law

Zxclnic · 01-08-2016 01:10PM

goose2005 wrote: »

That's the typical middle-class answer - you get all the nice aspects of mass immigration, but of course you live in a 90% native area, send your kids to a 95% native school and don't have to compete for unskilled work with immigrants

I think your post is possibly well-meant but ultimately wrong-headed.

Nearly every country in the EU has an immigrant population and the first thing that they - the immigrants - are criticised for when they arrive is not working and 'scrounging' off the state.
So what happens when the immigrants actually look for work?...
....they're then viewed as competing with the natives for unskilled work.

Anyway, your use of the word 'competing' in this context could well be construed as intentionally adversarial and segregationist in tone.
Immigrants need to feed their families too, that's just the way it is now. There's no going back to the way things were..
......
And depending on what period of time we went back to, you might be critical as a male for having to: ''Compete for unskilled work with.....women''

mitchconnor16 · 01-08-2016 04:29PM

LuckyRoche wrote: »

A Romanian nut job who sliced up his wife was sentenced during the week. He had previous convictions and the Romanian authorities warned the Gardai about him. But of course nothing was done and he went on to commit a serious violent assault.

But everything's grand!

More burden on the Irish tax payer.

Chuchote · 01-08-2016 04:33PM

mitchconnor16 wrote: »

More burden on the Irish tax payer.

But haven't there been a bunch of studies showing that the people coming into Ireland are more highly educated than the average here, and contribute more to the economy in the way of taxes and spending?

Slideways · 01-08-2016 10:58PM

As an example of how things should be done..

http://www.newstalk.com/reader/47.301/78771/0/

LuckyRoche · 02-08-2016 04:23AM

Chuchote wrote: »

But haven't there been a bunch of studies showing that the people coming into Ireland are more highly educated than the average here, and contribute more to the economy in the way of taxes and spending?

Unbiased citations needed.

LuckyRoche · 02-08-2016 04:27AM

Slideways wrote: »

As an example of how things should be done..

The Aussies don't mess around.

"This person’s visa was cancelled because he was found not to be of good character. He was issued with a notice of consideration to refuse his visa application, to which he responded," a spokesperson said.

"The Department was not satisfied his reasons met the threshold and that he continued to pose an unacceptable risk to the community so it refused that application. His other visa was then cancelled by operation of law.

"This individual has subsequently been detained while arrangements are made for his removal as soon as practicable."

He lied about a drink driving conviction on his initial visa application and racked up another drink driving conviction whilst in Australia. No sympathy.

This is how it should be done here too.

Speedwell · 02-08-2016 07:47AM

I had an online friend from Eastern Europe several years ago, a man in his 40s, who had been a bit of a hood when he was a very young man and had a few convictions for assault, all over 20 years ago. Anton was wanting to get a visa to visit New York (as a visa required national) and I was helping him with the paperwork. He had never been in trouble since he left his birth city, owned his own businesses, became highly educated and cultured... struggled a bit with drink, but that's not against the law and he never did anything questionable because of it, including driving... but we kept running up against the fact that he had had those previous convictions. He could have applied anyway, but he would have automatically been turned down on that basis; a subsequent appeal could easily have gone his way, but he thought it was too much hassle.

We had talked about the fact that in the UK, if many years have gone by since a conviction, they consider it "spent" according to UK rules (even if the origin country has no "spent conviction" rules), thus they disregard them (unless the crimes are very serious) when considering visa requirements. I think, but I'm not sure, that you still have to list them, but the adjudicator is required to apply those rules. Recently in reviewing immigration requirements for myself, I ran across a mention of something vaguely similar being applied to Irish visa applicants, and I thought of Anton and was curious. Of course, he would not be a visa required national in Ireland, but if someone were to come from, say, India or Colombia, and have an over 20-year-old conviction that they declared as required on their visa application, how would that affect their application for a visa and perhaps eventual citizenship?

Chuchote · 02-08-2016 08:12AM

Immigrants may not have a lot of rights, but apparently a foetus does have 'significant rights'

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/unborn-child-has-significant-legal-rights-judge-rules-1.2741697

A High Court judge has said the word “unborn” in the Constitution means an “unborn child” with rights beyond the right to life, which “must be taken seriously” by the State.
The unborn child, including the unborn child of a parent facing deportation, enjoys “significant” rights and legal position at common law, by statute, and under the Constitution, “going well beyond the right to life alone”, Mr Justice Richard Humphreys said.

02-08-2016 01:51PM

Chuchote wrote: »

But haven't there been a bunch of studies showing that the people coming into Ireland are more highly educated than the average here, and contribute more to the economy in the way of taxes and spending?

Yeah, those Nigerians loitering around Moore Street and Parnell Street at midday look like a right bunch of hard-working, diligent geniuses in their Fubu tracksuits.

dissed doc · 02-08-2016 01:55PM

Chuchote wrote: »

But haven't there been a bunch of studies showing that the people coming into Ireland are more highly educated than the average here, and contribute more to the economy in the way of taxes and spending?

Show the stats for % of migrants in employment and at what level, for each 12 month period following arrival in the state.

Mysteriously, the stats never appear. So if I say, 90% of migrants do not work and claim welfare - please prove me wrong with hard numbers.

Peter Sutherland's Big Boyz Book is not a source.

Chuchote · 02-08-2016 02:04PM

dissed doc wrote: »

please prove me wrong with hard numbers

You don't have a search engine, or know how to use one?

Pro Hoc Vice · 02-08-2016 02:13PM

dissed doc wrote: »

Show the stats for % of migrants in employment and at what level, for each 12 month period following arrival in the state.

Mysteriously, the stats never appear. So if I say, 90% of migrants do not work and claim welfare - please prove me wrong with hard numbers.

Peter Sutherland's Big Boyz Book is not a source.

http://emn.ie/index.jsp?p=128&n=138

LuckyRoche · 02-08-2016 02:23PM

Chuchote wrote: »

You don't have a search engine, or know how to use one?

That's not how this works.

Not another Immigrant thread!

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