Women changing their surname on marriage

sassyj · 30-07-2016 10:53PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

To be fair, traditional feminism is indeed about freedom of choice. However, the most vocal feminists over the last couple of years, particularly online, have used the term "internalised misogyny" to attack the idea of free will when they see women doing things they don't approve of or consider feminist enough. A prime example is the vitriol which has been levelled at women such as Christina Hoff Summers.

Ive never heard of internalised misogyny or
Christina Hoff Summers. Am I doing the internetthing wrong

anothernight · 30-07-2016 10:57PM

I'm legally required to keep both of my parents' surnames (take that, double-barrelled surname haters! :P), but if I could take my fiancé's surname I would do it in a heartbeat. His surname is so common and easy to spell that it would make my life a lot easier.

30-07-2016 10:59PM

Francis Sheehy Skeffington (1878-1916) was way ahead of his time. (the Sheehy part being his wife,
Hanna Sheehy's, surname.)

hatrickpatrick · 30-07-2016 11:03PM

sassyj wrote: »

Ive never heard of internalised misogyny or
Christina Hoff Summers. Am I doing the internetthing wrong

Sounds like you're doing it perfectly to be honest. Wish I'd never stumbled upon the online identity wars :pac:

DM addict · 30-07-2016 11:04PM

anothernight wrote: »

I'm legally required to keep both of my parents' surnames (take that, double-barrelled surname haters! :P), but if I could take my fiancé's surname I would do it in a heartbeat. His surname is so common and easy to spell that it would make my life a lot easier.

How are you legally required, if you don't mind my asking? I've always thought name changes were up to the individual, once they were an adult?

30-07-2016 11:16PM

anothernight wrote: »

I'm legally required to keep both of my parents' surnames (take that, double-barrelled surname haters! :P),

Are you really rich or something? In the past it was not uncommon for a relative to be left land on condition that they take the surname of the person who died. The Nugents of Ballinlough Castle are
descended from Aodh Ó Raghallaigh/Hugh O Reilly whose mother was a Nugent and as the closest relative his Nugent uncle left the estate to him on that condition.

Pawwed Rig · 30-07-2016 11:25PM

If you have a family then the family should have a name collectively. The whole point of marriage is leaving one family to join another.

goz83 · 30-07-2016 11:30PM

Autosport wrote: »

If I ever get married I'm keeping my surname. I like my name and I don't see why I would have to change it and if we were to have kids we could always double barrel

So which name comes first with the double barrelling. Yours, or his? All this name nonsense just causes stupid issues. I personally associate double barrel names with 2 things. Travellers and the healy-raes.

Special Circumstances · 30-07-2016 11:31PM

anothernight wrote: »

I'm legally required to keep both of my parents' surnames

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Are you really rich or something?

Bail conditions. McCarthy Dundon?

anothernight · 30-07-2016 11:40PM

DM addict wrote: »

How are you legally required, if you don't mind my asking? I've always thought name changes were up to the individual, once they were an adult?

Spanish naming rules.

DM addict · 30-07-2016 11:46PM

anothernight wrote: »

Spanish naming rules.

Oh really? So Spanish citizens aren't allowed to change their names?

seenitall · 31-07-2016 12:01AM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I don't approve of the tradition at all and I believe that it fuels an unhealthy attitude towards relationships, namely the idea that being in a relationship means you cease to be an individual. If I was getting married, at the end of the day it would be her choice but I would implore her to keep her own name, and thus her own identity as a fully fledged individual, rather than defining her entire identity by her relationship - which is essentially what you're doing if you take somebody's name, at least in my opinion.

How very refreshing

Really such a minority view among men I think.

Oh, and internalised misogyny does exist. To illustrate with a comparable example, in my home country, there is a prominent, far-right anti-Semitic politician who is Jewish by origin. That sort of thing. Except in this case, I agree that this name change thing would not fall within a thousand nautical miles of internalised misogyny.

anothernight · 31-07-2016 12:02AM

DM addict wrote: »

Oh really? So Spanish citizens aren't allowed to change their names?

They can change their first names, but their surnames must be their parents' first surnames. So my name is Firstname DadsSurname MumsSurname, but other people might have their mother's first.

Many countries have naming restrictions though, it's not just Spain. Iirc, in Portugal you can only use a Portuguese first name or something like that! The Irish system is the most flexible I've seen.

unseenfootage · 31-07-2016 12:05AM

The Raptor wrote: »

Well obviously I'm Daddy's possession, just like my brother's are as well.

I was born with the name, had it for 30+ years. I intend on having it for another six or seven decades.

Awesome.

Great to honour your dad by keeping his name.
Why change it for a man who you might be with just for a short while.

DM addict · 31-07-2016 12:09AM

anothernight wrote: »

They can change their first names, but their surnames must be their parents' first surnames. So my name is Firstname DadsSurname MumsSurname, but other people might have their mother's first.

Many countries have naming restrictions though, it's not just Spain. Iirc, in Portugal you can only use a Portuguese first name or something like that! The Irish system is the most flexible I've seen.

Huh. You learn something new each day, huh? Thanks for the info.

DM addict · 31-07-2016 12:13AM

unseenfootage wrote: »

Awesome.

Great to honour your dad by keeping his name.
Why change it for a man who you might be with just for a short while.

.... yeah, I didn't keep my birth name to honour my father. My husband has been a far more positive influence on my life than my father, and for much longer.

My birth name is more than my father's. It's mine. And indeed, then why not honour your mother by taking her name, eh? :rolleyes:

Hazydays123 · 31-07-2016 12:33AM

I've kept my own surname mostly because Mrs 'husbads-surname' is my mother-in-law's name not mine. The last thing in the world I want is any similarity to my mother-in-law :rolleyes:

Slideways · 31-07-2016 02:04AM

My sister has double barrelled her kids.

Though I was informed that because there is no hyphen they can legally use either surname or both

Tipperary Fairy · 31-07-2016 02:13AM

Lots of women saying that it's their choice, and of course it is (mostly) in this day and age, but would it even be considered if not for the old sexist tradition? I highly doubt it. You're really keeping old traditions alive in doing this, same as the engagement ring thing - if you were true feminists (in the original sense of the word) you would not expect or accept a ring.

Speedwell · 31-07-2016 04:55AM

Well, let's see here... I was born (substituting variables for actual values, lol) "FirstName MiddleName LastName". Then I got married and was legally "FN MN LN2". After I divorced him (he was violent), I went back to "FN MN LN" and went back to college. In a foreign language class my first semester I met other freshmen who didn't know anyone else on campus either, and we all started to refer to ourselves as the foreign-language name we used in class, so I became "FN2 LN" to most people. Met my second husband while there, became "FN (a.k.a. FN2) LN LN3" because I preferred to keep my maiden name as my middle name (I actually hate my middle name). Had a good few years with dude before we parted amicably; I actually asked his dad if I could keep LN3 because it was easiest on my paperwork. Sure, he said. So I was that legally for a dozen more years before I met and married the Irish man who is now my husband. For passport and business reasons I stayed FN LN LN3 (referred to as FN2) until we got his green card to the US, then we went to the Social Security office together and I showed them my marriage cert and all my past marriage documentation and legally became "FN LN LN4". It was too much of a hassle to change all of my paperwork so I kept putting it off. Then eight months later I was laid off ("no hard feelings, every team lost one or two people, please reapply when things get better") and we decided to move to Ireland. I didn't have time to change my passport and all of my other documentation, so when I got to Ireland, my GNIB and PPS cards matched my passport (FN LN LN3) and not my actual US-legal name (FN LN LN4). I recently filed my US taxes under FN LN LN3 because I literally forgot to use FN LN LN4, but the IRS didn't bat an eye. I think my legal name is different in the US and in Ireland. I'm actually not sure.

If I wanted to change my name to my actual name, I'd have to reapply and pay for a new US passport, and then do what in Ireland? Do I need to change my name by deed poll even though my legal, married US name is not the same as the name on my passport? Am I basically screwed? Do I have to get this sorted out before I apply for citizenship in a year or two? Eh it's nuts; I've never actually gone by any name I wasn't entitled to.

whisky_galore · 31-07-2016 09:00AM

Lau2976 wrote: »

Why? What difference does it make how many surnames someone has to you? I'm honestly just curious here.

Fair enough if you're actually related to the Windsors or move in those circles, but with an Irish surname it just looks stupid.

machiavellianme · 31-07-2016 09:11AM

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

A friend of mine called Kelly got married to a guy with the surname Kelly.

Needless to say she kept her maiden name.

And miss out on the opportunity to be Kelly Kelly?
That's disappointing.

eviltwin · 31-07-2016 09:16AM

Tipperary Fairy wrote: »

Lots of women saying that it's their choice, and of course it is (mostly) in this day and age, but would it even be considered if not for the old sexist tradition? I highly doubt it. You're really keeping old traditions alive in doing this, same as the engagement ring thing - if you were true feminists (in the original sense of the word) you would not expect or accept a ring.

I don't have a wedding or engagement ring and use my own name. I guess I get to keep my feminist card.

Seriously though for most couples an engagement ring is just a gift. Most women I know have bought their fiance a nice gift at the same time too to reciprocate. I think it's more about intent. If you want to change your name and its an easy decision go for it but when you have couples where the woman wants to keep her name and is under pressure to change it from him then alarm bells ring.

bee06 · 31-07-2016 09:23AM

I don't get why people get so worked up about what other people do. Especially the women who seem to think I'm betraying woman kind by changing my name. Change your name, don't change your name, make up a new name ... Makes no difference to me.

I don't tie my name to my identity in any way. I could change my name every week and I'd still be the same person.

Olishi4 · 31-07-2016 10:49AM

bee06 wrote: »

I don't tie my name to my identity in any way. I could change my name every week and I'd still be the same person.

"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet"

FishOnABike · 31-07-2016 10:54AM

Giacomo McGubbin wrote: »

Make it 'O Connor Neil' and it's grand.

I haven't read to the end of the thread, yet, but I bet I won't be the only one to think how this double barrelled Mr / Ms O' Connor Neill could be used to amusing effect in some romantic roleplay.

bee06 · 31-07-2016 11:41AM

Loveinapril wrote: »

Yes, you are still the same person, but you would have been known to others as a different name. I would be concerned about the confusion to my professional reputation if I changed my name too. My name is tied to all my qualifications, experience, networking, etc. It would be such a backward step to have to try to manage that change and tell people a birth and married name.

Yeah, I have no problem with that either. That's your choice. What bothers me is people who think it's ok to make judgements on the decisions people make, whatever it is.

Vojera · 31-07-2016 11:50AM

whisky_galore wrote: »

Fair enough if you're actually related to the Windsors or move in those circles, but with an Irish surname it just looks stupid.

When you say it like that it sounds like your issue isn't with names, it's with wealth or aspirations to it.

Vojera · 31-07-2016 11:54AM

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

If you have a family then the family should have a name collectively. The whole point of marriage is leaving one family to join another.

In the past it may have been seen as a woman leaving her family and joining her husband's, but nowadays I would hope that attitude has disappeared. At the very least you're starting your own family unit, but that doesn't mean you're leaving your heritage behind.

I can understand that people like to have the same surname because they worry about travelling with kids who don't share the same surname, etc., but in reality a name doesn't make a family, the people in it do. My wife and I are no less committed because our surnames are not the same.

strandroad · 31-07-2016 11:59AM

Ally Dick wrote: »

The one I cannot stand is the women who do the dreaded double barrelling - Mrs Mary Higgins O'Kelly returns from her honeymoon to work. F@ck off and pick one or the other. I deliberately ignore the surname to the left of the barrel and never refer to it. Mary Mitchell O'Connor would be Mrs O'Connor in every correspondence ever, or formal presentation

That's just rudeness on your part. It actually sounds spiteful for no reason.

In Ireland especially there is little variety in names and I know two women who went double barrelled because:
- to take her husband's name would mean having the exact same name as another woman or even two in his family
- to leave her name would mean that her kids would have a different one.

How many times does someone need to explain which Mary O'Connor they are, or that they are not Mrs Ryan even though her kids are Ryans for you to grant them permission to take the name they want....

Women changing their surname on marriage

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