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Dublin Marathon 2016 - Mentored Novices Thread

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,009 ✭✭✭✭The Muppet


    A lot of food for thought there.I only want to do the marathon if I can get sub-4. I know I'll get in trouble for saying that, but I just know my own mind and I'd be really disappointed with anything less. But based on that, it doesn't look like I'll get it!!

    Look on it as a training run for next year max , do your best and then if you go sub 4 hours great if not you have a target to aim for with the knowledge you'll gain from running it this year.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    The Muppet wrote: »
    Look on it as a training run for next year max , do your best and then if you go sub 4 hours great if not you have a target to aim for with the knowledge you'll gain from running it this year.

    That's not a bad way to think of it all right; maybe I need to work on changing my mindset. I think part of the problem is that the handful of people I know outside of Boards who did their debut marathons in the last couple of years all did sub-4 and my competitive nature is getting the better of me.

    It's worth remembering that they all had a couple of years' running under their belts though and I'll only have one.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,009 ✭✭✭Firedance


    The Muppet wrote: »
    Look on it as a training run for next year max , do your best and then if you go sub 4 hours great if not you have a target to aim for with the knowledge you'll gain from running it this year.

    Big big BIG + 1 to this Max, stick with the training, do DCM but ditch the time expectation and replace it with 'finishing 26.2 miles strong and learning everything I need to know in order to get my sub 4 next time out'


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,009 ✭✭✭✭The Muppet


    /\

    You're in trouble again :D
    That's not a bad way to think of it all right; maybe I need to work on changing my mindset. I think part of the problem is that the handful of people I know outside of Boards who did their debut marathons in the last couple of years all did sub-4 and my competitive nature is getting the better of me.

    It's worth remembering that they all had a couple of years' running under their belts though and I'll only have one.

    Well that's my mindset when it comes to running, time is only numbers on piece of paper knowing you have ran for 26.2 miles for the first time, how could you not be happy with that .

    Setting the right strategy for running that distance is going to be really tough, It's too early to settle on anything yet. Err the wrong way early on and its not going to be a good day.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 582 ✭✭✭Pomplamousse


    I was really hoping for sub-4 too, mainly because I only want to do one marathon, but judging by that thread it's laughable to think I'll even come close. :o I think I'll adjust expectations.

    Quick question for future reference. I know running twice on the same day is bad, such as running to and from work on the same day. Would it be ok the odd time to do my Wednesday run in the evening (I usually get out for my evening runs at about 5pm) and then my Thursday run in the morning (about 6am)? Or is that equally as bad as doing two runs in one day? Does the sleep in between make it less bad?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭jameshayes


    A lot of food for thought there. I only want to do the marathon if I can get sub-4. I know I'll get in trouble for saying that, but I just know my own mind and I'd be really disappointed with anything less. But based on that, it doesn't look like I'll get it!!

    Max, you're "GuyWithA Garmin" on strava right? We've similar times.. I'd be almost in the same boat as you - I want a sub 4 and I'd be disappointed if I didn't get it, I'd be still happy with a finish however.. But this is my one and only marathon so if I don't get it I wont be coming back next year anyhow


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 256 ✭✭sibeen99


    nop98 wrote: »
    Thanks FD - yes, moving back is allowed, moving up is not. This always comes up closer to race-day, so best to get this info out. Unlike the race-series events, where the waves are lining up behind each other, on the day itself, the waves are physically separated in different streets around the start-line.

    I just checked the official event site and it turns out the wave-structure has changes somewhat. Last year there were three waves, now there are 4:

    This suggests to me that the 3:40, 3:50 and 4:00 pace-groups are in Wave 2, the 4:10, 4:20, and 4:30s in wave 3, etc.

    Firedance is right, if you think you're on the fence, just grab the earlier wave and you can always move back if you want to. What's more important is that you line up, within the wave, at the right spot (not too far forward, and not too far back).

    We'll get to all that!



    Good stuff!

    Thanks nop98, I'm in! Wave 2 it is. It's only when you hear how the waves are segregated you realise how massive the event is!! I'll hold off panicking until nearer the event :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    jameshayes wrote: »
    Max, you're "GuyWithA Garmin" on strava right? We've similar times.. I'd be almost in the same boat as you - I want a sub 4 and I'd be disappointed if I didn't get it, I'd be still happy with a finish however.. But this is my one and only marathon so if I don't get it I wont be coming back next year anyhow

    Yep, that's me. I think after the marathon I'll probably focus on shorter distances, 5-10k and work on speed but I can see myself coming back for more in the future. I certainly wouldn't rule it out given that up until about 2 months ago I had no intention of doing one at all. I suppose all we can do is go for it and see what we can do!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭jameshayes


    Yep, that's me. I think after the marathon I'll probably focus on shorter distances, 5-10k and work on speed but I can see myself coming back for more in the future. I certainly wouldn't rule it out given that up until about 2 months ago I had no intention of doing one at all. I suppose all we can do is go for it and see what we can do!

    I'm planning the same - after the marathon I'm going to work on breaking the 20 in a 5k.. hopefully be able to do it by March - I've only 2mins 40 seconds to shave off :eek:..

    The shorter type of training fits my life better than the long slogs.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,916 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    FITZA wrote: »
    Thanks for that link Murph_D, great information...have just read a few and definitely an eye opener re indicators. Will read it all later when I've more time. Another question....I know this is a bit early to be asking.....what pacing group should be followed? The more conservative and hope all goes well and can push on a bit near the end, or the slightly more 'aggressive' pace and drop back if not going well?

    You're right - it's too early to be even thinking about this. Closer to the race you will have a better idea of your potential time, especially if you race one of the other Race Series. But in general I think the a conservative approach tends to be more successful, especially in your debut.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,607 ✭✭✭djemba djemba


    I bought two pairs of the same type of runners. I started wearing one pair in April and now I am just wondering when should I break out the other pair. Would after the half marathon in September be too soon to the full marathon?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15,111 ✭✭✭✭RasTa


    Ordered 3 of those running packs which arrived today from Science in Sport. Will only use them on the LSR day and maybe race pace, good value anyway and does anyone water bottle?!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,447 ✭✭✭FBOT01


    I bought two pairs of the same type of runners. I started wearing one pair in April and now I am just wondering when should I break out the other pair. Would after the half marathon in September be too soon to the full marathon?

    I would normally run two pairs in parrallel using them on alternate days. There is a theory that you can get more mileage out of both pairs that way by giving them more time to decompress between runs.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    FBOT01 wrote: »
    I would normally run two pairs in parrallel using them on alternate days. There is a theory that you can get more mileage out of both pairs that way by giving them more time to decompress between runs.

    I've four pairs on the go at the moment. I'm not rigidly sticking to rotating them after every run but they all get a fair shake and I'm convinced it has contributed to a reduction in minor niggles.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15,111 ✭✭✭✭RasTa


    I do love my kinavara's


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 117 ✭✭budhistmonk


    So it looks like the calf injury I picked up on 5th July has finally cleared up. I've now been out 4 times on alternate days since last Thursday (~4 miles each) and have been pain/niggle free. Was back at the PT last night and got the all clear. I had planned to follow the boards plan but since I've had 2 and a half weeks with no running at all I think I will switch to HHN2 - basically looks the same as HHN1 with some PMP runs mid-week. I think running 4 times a week rather than 5 will be better for the legs. I don't think I will be sacrificing too much by doing this.

    I was thinking of giving myself about 3 weeks to gradually catch up with the plan. I'm fairly comfortable with the mid-week run distances (well may need to adjust the odd one) but I think I need to be careful with the LSRs as it could be too much too soon. So this would mean building up to ~14/15 miles by 20th Aug. I think I'll have to give the FD10 a miss as I feel doing an LSR would be more important. I will hopefully do the HM in Sept.

    So my thoughts on LSR progression would be:
    July 30: 7 miles
    Aug 6: 9
    Aug 13: 11
    Aug 20: 14/15

    Anyone see a flaw or concern in my thinking.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 316 ✭✭kittyclaws


    I need advice :(
    I've been complaining the last week of being tired - I'm literally fighting to stay awake at my desk in work. Today I woke up with a massive abscess on my gum. This evening I went out for my 8 miles, I could only manage 3, my right quad went dead and even a slow jog wouldn't fix it. I'm definitely getting run down.
    I'm thinking of taking the rest of the week off and waiting until Monday to do my 14 mile LSR, then a very easy week of training to give myself time to adapt.
    Is this ok or can someone in the know offer better advice?
    I might pay my Physio a visit too if she can fit me in..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    kittyclaws wrote: »
    I need advice :(
    I've been complaining the last week of being tired - I'm literally fighting to stay awake at my desk in work. Today I woke up with a massive abscess on my gum. This evening I went out for my 8 miles, I could only manage 3, my right quad went dead and even a slow jog wouldn't fix it. I'm definitely getting run down.
    I'm thinking of taking the rest of the week off and waiting until Monday to do my 14 mile LSR, then a very easy week of training to give myself time to adapt.
    Is this ok or can someone in the know offer better advice?
    I might pay my Physio a visit too if she can fit me in..

    That sounds like it could be more than just tiredness from running. Might be worth a visit to the GP, you could be deficient in something?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 316 ✭✭kittyclaws


    I've had all my bloods done and told the gp I was marathon training (about 9 weeks ago) I'm a vegetarian so need to stay on top of iron, protein etc - it's all tracked in MyFitnessPal so I can keep an eye on what I'm eating.
    It could be just a coincidence, my tooth has been sore since Christmas, but my quad pain is new :S


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,009 ✭✭✭Firedance


    kittyclaws wrote: »
    I've had all my bloods done and told the gp I was marathon training (about 9 weeks ago) I'm a vegetarian so need to stay on top of iron, protein etc - it's all tracked in MyFitnessPal so I can keep an eye on what I'm eating.
    It could be just a coincidence, my tooth has been sore since Christmas, but my quad pain is new :S

    How is your sleep then kitty claws? are you getting 8+ hours most nights and eating within 20 mins of your longer (not just your longest) runs? Good to know you're on top of the nutrition side.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭scotindublin


    Take some time to get yourself on the right tracks kittyclaws...it may be worth getting bloods done at the docs as Max and FD have said. Could be deficient in anything and expert advice will definitely help.

    For example I have been advised to take iron supplements and also glucosamine (pardon the spelling)


    kittyclaws wrote: »
    I need advice :(
    I've been complaining the last week of being tired - I'm literally fighting to stay awake at my desk in work. Today I woke up with a massive abscess on my gum. This evening I went out for my 8 miles, I could only manage 3, my right quad went dead and even a slow jog wouldn't fix it. I'm definitely getting run down.
    I'm thinking of taking the rest of the week off and waiting until Monday to do my 14 mile LSR, then a very easy week of training to give myself time to adapt.
    Is this ok or can someone in the know offer better advice?
    I might pay my Physio a visit too if she can fit me in..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 316 ✭✭kittyclaws


    Sleep is an issue - usually between 6 and 7 hours, less if I'm running before work.
    I'll try go to bed a bit earlier and book in for bloods during the week - my local chemist does them and can advise if I should see a doctor.
    Would be no harm to cook a few meals from scratch and add more veggies, I've fallen into the habit of getting breakfast and lunch in the canteen at work - I'd say nutrition wise the meals can be hit or miss.

    Thanks all for your advice :)xx


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,451 ✭✭✭spaceylou


    kittyclaws wrote: »
    Sleep is an issue - usually between 6 and 7 hours, less if I'm running before work.
    I'll try go to bed a bit earlier and book in for bloods during the week - my local chemist does them and can advise if I should see a doctor.
    Would be no harm to cook a few meals from scratch and add more veggies, I've fallen into the habit of getting breakfast and lunch in the canteen at work - I'd say nutrition wise the meals can be hit or miss.

    Thanks all for your advice :)xx

    Kittyclaws, sorry to hear you are feeling so exhausted. Like others have said, sleep and food are key, although no harm getting blood etc checked as well.

    My OH laughs at me but during the week I set an alarm on phone to remind me to go to bed early... Too easy to get distracted by TV /boards/random stuff doing nothing really and before you know it, an hour or two has just disappeared that you could have spent resting/sleeping.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,451 ✭✭✭spaceylou


    Was not feeling the love this evening when I headed out. Gave myself a get out clause by going a route that could be easily cut short but sure once I was out there stubbornness kicked in and I did the full 10k on the plan.

    Guess Sunday's race is still in my legs because when I did the strides at the end my legs felt a bit leaden or heavy. Normally I love doing the strides cause it feels like flying after the plod but tonight they were a bit meh. Anyone else have this?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,009 ✭✭✭Firedance


    kittyclaws wrote: »
    Sleep is an issue - usually between 6 and 7 hours, less if I'm running before work.
    I'll try go to bed a bit earlier and book in for bloods during the week - my local chemist does them and can advise if I should see a doctor.
    Would be no harm to cook a few meals from scratch and add more veggies, I've fallen into the habit of getting breakfast and lunch in the canteen at work - I'd say nutrition wise the meals can be hit or miss.

    Thanks all for your advice :)xx

    Sounds like a good place to start, hopefully its just those things combined and you're feeling energetic again soon :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,613 ✭✭✭Wubble Wubble


    Update from last weekend...

    Mon 25/7 - 3.2 miles in 30:33 ; recovery after Fingal 10k.
    Tue 26/7 - Rest
    Wed 27/7 - Club session

    This started off with 20 minutes at about 7:45-8:00 pace, followed by 4 x 800m with approximately 2 min recoveries. My heart sank when I heard these being called out. Anyway, times were 3:19, 3:11, 3:08 and 3:10, so I got the consistency part right I suppose! Another 20 minutes at about the same pace as before to finish off, then stretches and a half mile jog home. I'm feeling tired now, but happy I did it!

    Still undecided re: BHAA 5k on Sunday. If I go to this one, that'll push my planned 16 mile LSR out to Monday, and hence the rest day to Tuesday. I won't be racing it flat out either way.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,009 ✭✭✭✭The Muppet


    spaceylou wrote: »

    Guess Sunday's race is still in my legs because when I did the strides at the end my legs felt a bit leaden or heavy. Normally I love doing the strides cause it feels like flying after the plod but tonight they were a bit meh. Anyone else have this?


    I felt tired after the strides this evening, still feeling the effect of Sunday I'd imagine.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,920 ✭✭✭mel.b


    kittyclaws wrote: »
    I've had all my bloods done and told the gp I was marathon training (about 9 weeks ago) I'm a vegetarian so need to stay on top of iron, protein etc - it's all tracked in MyFitnessPal so I can keep an eye on what I'm eating.
    It could be just a coincidence, my tooth has been sore since Christmas, but my quad pain is new :S

    Kittyclaws, as you are a vegetarian, make sure they also specifically test your B12 levels. It's another one that can cause tiredness etc and defiency is common in vegetarians. I need to have an injection every 3mths (although I'm no longer vegetarian, my body doesn't absorb B12 properly from food which is why I still need the injections)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭nop98


    @Kittyclaws - I hope your finding your energy back soon enough. As per Firedance and the advice of others, look after yourself... It may be worth getting yourself checked out again, frustrating as that may be..

    Those of you tired from the weekend's excursions, and/or maybe not feeling the love as much as you would like to, this is only very natural at this point. Your mileage is increasing week on week, and you've ran a hard 10k race this weekend - it would be weird if you weren't feel tired. It's getting real! I think Murph_D and Myles touched on the subject - your body is starting to adapt to the strain your putting it under. It's responding by increasing your endurance and preparing you for even longer and harsher events. No wonder you're tired. :rolleyes:

    Two things are worth repeating over and over again. (1) Trust the plan and stick with it - the plans are designed to get novice marathon runners to the startline of their first marathon, with a good shot at getting to the finishline. Respect the distance and the training required to get there. Someone mentioned climbing Mt Everest. I can't even imagine how much training and prep is needed for that, yet people manage to do it. This journey is similar. You've signed up and taken giant strides already, but you're not there, yet. There are hundreds of miles still to cover... (2) Look after yourself - start going to bed earlier to clock up decent hours of sleep, because you need it (and you're worth it :)). Have a waterbottle with you, at all times, and aim to drink several liters a day, every day. Improve your diet, even small, structural changes can make a big difference. It's time to start being unsociable, go home early from a night out, reduce your alcohol intake. Your body is telling you that it's responding to all you're asking it to do, give it a chance to adapt and get stronger! And if you need a day off, scrap those 3/4 easy miles and take the day off! Go to the cinema, take the better half for dinner, go the zoo with the kids (and don't check-out the incline on Chesterfield Avenue), do something fun, non-running related. Look after yourselves! It's going to be tougher, not easier, and you need to help your body out :eek:

    Lastly, the conversation about expectations, and possible disappointment not meeting targets, on the day itself. I strongly urge you to not even start thinking about this yet. :(

    Firedance said jokingly (offline) that I should know *exactly* what you guys are talking about - and she's right (as always). Last year, I had prepped almost obsessively. My pre-DCM running history and times over the shorter distances suggested that a sub-4h was well on the cards. I was thinking 3h50. I ran a cool 10k PB just before training started (which still stands) and crushed (in relative terms, obviously ;)) the FD10. I studied the course, ran 20M of it with diego_b and other novices as a joint LSR. On the day itself, I was exceptionally lucky to run with a very experienced marathoner as my personal pacer. What could possibly go wrong? Well, I cramped up badly at 21M and that was that. I was lucky to be able to finish at all.

    Why am I telling you all this? Just to illustrate that there are no guarantees on the day itself. All the training and prep does not automatically translate in the goal you have set yourself, after all, 26 miles in uncharted territory for almost all of you - and therefore it is important to not get too hung up on goals and target times.

    Luckily, Dubgal had made us do the mental prep for exactly this eventuality. Of the many amazing things she told us last year, for me "Don't be too attached to the outcome" is etched in my brain. Especially if you think this will be your only go at it. For me and almost all my fellow 2015 novices, the whole marathon-training journey was such an amazing experience, and the day itself something I'll never forget. That it took me 242 minutes instead of the utterly arbitrary 240 I thought I was capable of, well, I can live with that. :D

    My best advice I can give you, using all the points in this and other posts from far more experienced folks than me, is to focus to get to the startline in one piece. As many of you are now experiencing, this is proving to be hard enough as it is... Let's worry about the time it takes to get to the finishline closer to the day. :pac: :cool:


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,119 ✭✭✭Mrs Mc


    mel.b wrote: »
    Kittyclaws, as you are a vegetarian, make sure they also specifically test your B12 levels. It's another one that can cause tiredness etc and defiency is common in vegetarians. I need to have an injection every 3mths (although I'm no longer vegetarian, my body doesn't absorb B12 properly from food which is why I still need the injections)

    +1 to this kitty claws was feeling the same myself last year and I wasn't even training and my b12 was low which cause lethargy and lack of energy 3 months of supplements and I was grand. So advice gp visit and bloods gotta mind yourself :)


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