Explosion in bar in Ansbach, Germany

HensVassal · 25-07-2016 02:43PM

Bambi wrote: »

Not at all, men from all classes fought in world war 1 & 2, the upper classes lost more young men as a percentage in world war 1 than any other class

But yeah, it's usually the self important privileged types with the money to become "refugee"'s that get to avoid wars. Because you're worth it I suppose

Are you seriously going to try and peddle that? So the gentry who make up that wealthy 1 or 2 percent of society suffered more casualties than the rest of society? I just have to see your figures backing that up.

unseenfootage · 25-07-2016 02:46PM

ricero wrote: »

.....we are civilised people now. We dont blow people up or shoot people every week. ...

Christian bombers drop bombs from heavy weapons, Fighter Jets and Drones every day on people.

In Iraq, Syria, Ukraine, Afghanistan, Pakistan.....

Grayson · 25-07-2016 02:51PM

Arne_Saknussem wrote: »

Do you really believe that American invaded Afganistan & Iraq is because they believed George Bush when he said God told him to do it? Seriously?

Remember there's no passage in the Bible that requests George Bush to invade Iraq.

I believe it was a big part of it. I believe there were a lot of people involved in the decision each had a mixture of motivations/agendas and made their decision based on them. The fact that classified briefings were sent to Bush with biblical quotes indicates that for Bush at least religion was a motivation. Those memo's were not intended for public consumption but for Bush himself. Religion played a part in his decision. For others it was undoubtedly a chance to make a profit.

The same can be said for the middle east itself. Saudi gave money to sunni groups, Iran to Shia groups. Part of it is religious but a big part is political. It's a power play between two regional powers.

If you look at christian media in the US you'll see a massive amount of people who believe this is a holy war. You'll also find a lot of Christians who are peaceful. If you look at the Muslim world you'll find a huge range of thought too.

I don't think Christians are naturally violent because of their religion. I think they can be. People take from their religion what they want to. Likewise it's the same with Muslims. Most are peaceful people, however some look to their religion for answers and find violence.

People are unfortunately not the most rational of species.

Edit to add: There are plenty of passages in the bible that justify and even require genocide against the unbelievers.

Dyr · 25-07-2016 02:54PM

HensVassal wrote: »

Are you seriously going to try and peddle that? So the gentry who make up that wealthy 1 or 2 percent of society suffered more casualties than the rest of society? I just have to see your figures backing that up.

I don't have to peddle it, its correct

Nothing unusual about it, officers tend to die in larger percentages than soldiers

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-25776836

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world-war-1/458751/Death-of-our-best-and-brightest-Eton-Rifles-may-have-been-built-for-slaughter

"Some 12% of the British army's ordinary soldiers were killed during the war, compared with 17% of its officers. Eton alone lost more than 1,000 former pupils - 20% of those who served."

munchkin_utd · 25-07-2016 02:54PM

there was a press conference where more details emerged and the motives of the attacker and the bomb construction is now clear.

I amnt posting them as I cannot be arsed wasting my time posting useful info which is ignored and drowned by general anti islam tangents, where theres actually a fairly interesting real tangiable attack here with emerging details.

Dyr · 25-07-2016 02:55PM

unseenfootage wrote: »

Christian bombers drop bombs from Fighter Jets and Drones every day on people.

In Iraq, Syria, Ukraine, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Ukraine,.....

I did'nt even realize that christians had an air force :eek:

HensVassal · 25-07-2016 02:56PM

Smondie wrote: »

Go back to the 60's/ 70's and a lot of muslim women didn't wear the burka in muslim countries

What's your fucking point? The majority of Muslim don't wear a burkha today or 50 years ago or 100 years ago.

Polo_Mint · 25-07-2016 02:57PM

I read a while back( 2 or 3 Months ago) about ISIS and how they created this caliphate

While alot of their leaders believed in armageddon, Most of their fighters were not fighting for the cause but were paid mercenaries.

In IRAQ, a lot of the fighters were Saddam Hussein old army guards who couldn't get jobs in the new Iraqi Army.

ISIS paid theses people to fight on their behalf.

When ISIS cash was reduced, a lot of their fighters switched sides to the rebels who are most likely mercenaries to the west.

I must dig it out

25-07-2016 02:58PM

Bambi wrote: »

I did'nt even realize that christians had an air force :eek:

I wonder if they shout "Jesus is greatest" before opening the hatch.

HensVassal · 25-07-2016 02:59PM

Bambi wrote: »

Now and here being the operative words my good man, you want to dress like a cross between a ninja and a bin bag, you shouldn't be doing it here and now, try somewhere that's still stuck in the 14th century.

You don't actually have a clue about womens dress sense in Victorian England, assuming that womens clothing did not change over that era shows that right away.

But anyway remind me of the Victorian convention where women covered their faces and walked behind their owners like good little gimps.

Don't even see the oul balaclava being in worn in India or elsewhere either.

I see plenty of Goths roaming the streets looking like something from a Vincent Price movie circa 1700's transylvania. What do you propse to do with them?

Dyr · 25-07-2016 03:01PM

HensVassal wrote: »

What's your fucking point? The majority of Muslim don't wear a burkha today or 50 years ago or 100 years ago.

Are you including muslim men in that attempt to spread a net so wide that you have a leg to stand on?

Walter H Price · 25-07-2016 03:02PM

unseenfootage wrote: »

Christian bombers drop bombs from Fighter Jets and Drones every day on people.

In Iraq, Syria, Ukraine, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Ukraine,.....

Do we know all of the pilots are Chistian ? , are they Shouting God is great or Praise Jesus as they are doing it ? are they doing it because they believe Muslims should be eradicated or are they doing it because its their job ? I believe most of the govenments sending troops into that region are tryin to restore order as there is in affect an ongoing Civil war beteen Sunni and Shia Muslims accross the entire middle east with non muslims cought in the crossfire and valuable natural resoures like OIL being wasted, all over some theocratic nonsense

Im sure pleanty of those pilots are Jewish , atheist , Russian Orthadox , Coptyic Christian , Kurdish, some are possibly Muslim so thats a BS argument and you know it . their is an international task force in there trying to stamp out ISIS its a War , completely different to what is happening in the streets of Paris , Brussels , and now Southern Germany.

take everything · 25-07-2016 03:02PM

This guy pledged allegiance to IS, reportedly.

Walter H Price · 25-07-2016 03:05PM

take everything wrote: »

This guy pledged allegiance to IS, reportedly.

Had a Video on his phone apparently ... Never saw that coming :P

Arne_Saknussem · 25-07-2016 03:10PM

Grayson wrote: »

I believe it was a big part of it. I believe there were a lot of people involved in the decision each had a mixture of motivations/agendas and made their decision based on them. The fact that classified briefings were sent to Bush with biblical quotes indicates that for Bush at least religion was a motivation. Those memo's were not intended for public consumption but for Bush himself. Religion played a part in his decision. For others it was undoubtedly a chance to make a profit.

The same can be said for the middle east itself. Saudi gave money to sunni groups, Iran to Shia groups. Part of it is religious but a big part is political. It's a power play between two regional powers.

If you look at christian media in the US you'll see a massive amount of people who believe this is a holy war. You'll also find a lot of Christians who are peaceful. If you look at the Muslim world you'll find a huge range of thought too.

I don't think Christians are naturally violent because of their religion. I think they can be. People take from their religion what they want to. Likewise it's the same with Muslims. Most are peaceful people, however some look to their religion for answers and find violence.

People are unfortunately not the most rational of species.

Edit to add: There are plenty of passages in the bible that justify and even require genocide against the unbelievers.

I believe it had very little to do with it, would seem very strange to me that God very conveniently told him to invade Iraq ahead of anywhere else in the Muslim world.

I try to listen to as little 'news' from religious outlets of whatever persuasion as possible.

Also the bible is not the unchanging and final word of God, Judaism and Christianity have both thankfully gone through reformations that Islam has not and needs to.

I'd agree with Maajid Nawaz when he talks about the west's liberals and their 'bigotry of low expectations' of people from the Muslim world. People such as he are who the west's 'liberals' should be supporting but the fact is they're being ignored.

HensVassal · 25-07-2016 03:11PM

SnakePlissken wrote: »

Ah so you're resorting to "I know you are but what am I?" Well done, please give one example of where I've detracted from the argument, I can reference several of your posts that contain nothing but whataboutery

Could you give a definition of this "whataboutery" of which you speak. It seems to be a sort of catch-all but meaningless term to dismiss an argument.

Bob24 · 25-07-2016 03:13PM

take everything wrote: »

This guy pledged allegiance to IS, reportedly.

Indeed: https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/25/ansbach-explosion-german-town-deliberate-blast-latest

"Bavaria’s top security official says a video has been found on the Ansbach bomber’s phone showing him pledging allegiance to the leader of the Islamic State group"

Also (and possibly worrying for Germany if it becomes a trend): "According to an initial translation of the Arabic-language video found on the suspect’s phone, the Ansbach attack was described as “revenge” against Germany."

SnakePlissken · 25-07-2016 03:14PM

Grayson wrote: »

I wholeheartedly agree with you.

(see, That's what misquoting someone is like)

Absolutely disgusting behaviour to attribute false quotes to someone you obviously cannot form a cohesive argument to discredit... It's schoolyard behaviour it really is. I will not be debating with you any further as you're an absolute embarrassment, I have also reported your post as fabricating racist misquotes is of course against forum rules...once more, absolutely disgusting behaviour

HensVassal · 25-07-2016 03:18PM

SnakePlissken wrote: »

Yes but the punishment for same isn't 100 lashes now is it?

The punishment is irrelevant and the 80 to 100 lashes is rarely if ever enforced. It just happens to sit on the statute. You have a problem with the Emiratis having strict laws surrounding alcohol yet I would imagine you'd lick your lips with glee at the thought of the Thai authorities banging up some idiot for 25 years for being in possession of a few joints.

Venom · 25-07-2016 03:25PM

HensVassal wrote: »

I see plenty of Goths roaming the streets looking like something from a Vincent Price movie circa 1700's transylvania. What do you propse to do with them?

Nothing as their harmless twats.

When Goths start blowing up pubs, running over people in trucks, stabing women and girls over how their dressed, killing gay people in nightclubs and shooting people in shopping centres we can look into the serious Goth problem in the west.

unseenfootage · 25-07-2016 03:26PM

Bob24 wrote: »

Indeed: https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/25/ansbach-explosion-german-town-deliberate-blast-latest

"Bavaria’s top security official says a video has been found on the Ansbach bomber’s phone showing him pledging allegiance to the leader of the Islamic State group"

Also (and possibly worrying for Germany if it becomes a trend): "According to an initial translation of the Arabic-language video found on the suspect’s phone, the Ansbach attack was described as “revenge” against Germany."

What is worrying too, is that people who are marginalized and have mental health problems are suddenly finding a terrorist cause and acting on it.
This fella doesn't fit the profile of an ISIS supporter. Seems like he turned only after they tried to deport him previously.

There have been cases of people who are not even Muslim but who have committed acts of terror. Like the mentally unstable guy who stabbed someone in the London tube. A passenger said "You ain't Muslim bruv." Cameron repeated this in parliament. Turns out the guy was really not a Muslim....

SnakePlissken · 25-07-2016 03:27PM

HensVassal wrote: »

And where is your proof that the "vast bulk" of the migrants are young men? Some bullshit propaganda editorial on Fox News designed to stoke up the calls of "deport the lot of 'em!" ?

Because according to the UN figures, women outnumber men in the Syrian refugee demographic. Not only that but young males aged 12-17, you know BOYS, make up 6.3% of the refugees. The majority of the refugees 51.1% are under the age of 17....kids, and 38.% are under the age of 12.

Males aged 18-59 make up 21.5% of the refugees. Since I doubt anyone would class guys in their 50's as being "fighting fit" the percentage of males age 18 to say 45 is probably in the 13-14% ranges.

But you go ahead and spread the bullshit that the vast majority of them are young, "military age" males who've abandoned their country and their women folk. But it's a pack of filthy lies.

I see plenty of filthy lies alright, this is a direct quote from the UN;

In Europe, over 800,000 migrants have traveled to Europe by sea in 2015, according to the United Nations refugee agency, and a little over half have come from Syria. About 62% of all migrants that have traveled to Europe this year, however, are men. A little under a quarter, 22%, are children and only 16% are women. The New York Times reported in October the mass exodus of men to parts of Europe could cause problems in both the countries they leave and the countries they enter. The head of the International Organization for Migration in Turkey told the Times: “We know on the positive side that migration can boost economies and trade and lead to cultural exchange … But if it is mismanaged, it becomes a problem for both the receiving states and the countries left behind.”

62% are males, one only has to look at any of the images of migrants arriving enmasse to verify this, but no, the facts do not align themselves to your opinion so you fabricate your own, it's shameful.

HensVassal · 25-07-2016 03:32PM

Walter H Price wrote: »

Let be honest here the War in Iraq was about Money, Oil and settling old scores, Bush was a dolt being lead by the nose by some very powerful businesses and political lobby groups, it was not a crusade and had F all to do with religion.

The "jihad" or whatever the F**k all thees attacks are , is just pure religious fanaticism they are targeting westerners because our culture offends them , though they chose to come here, no one asked them too its a systemic issue specifically with the Islamic faith and it needs to be addressed properly by European Governments.

Then how come so many of them say it's revenge for the mass slaughter of people in their lands? Or do you want to ignore that and paint them as madmen who can't be reasoned with or who have no legitimate explanation for their actions because it frees you up from having to examine a little deeper the causes of this whole conflict?

Yup, the easy way out. the lazy man's approach.

weisses · 25-07-2016 03:32PM

Knife wielding Syrian kills a pregnant woman and then gets run over by another Muslim trying to stop him... That must be disturbing to quite a few people with certain thoughts about certain people with certain beliefs.

Thats for certain.

FA Hayek · 25-07-2016 03:35PM

jmayo wrote: »

Sometimes people have to stand and fight.
Most of the Kurds are doing it.

And the biggest laugh of all is that people claim the ones appearing in Europe are fleeing to make a better life for themselves and their families.
Except we don't see any families much, just lots of young adult males. :rolleyes:

I love how these threads work out.
The counter arguments are becoming standards at this point, although the nun one is a new one I believe.

Poster A: islam is backwards and in lots of muslim countries women are foced to wear hijab or burka
Poster B: catholic church nuns had to wear a habit.

Poster A: islam is backwards, you have clerics telling people to stone adulterers and raped women to death.
Poster B: but the catholic church ran the magdalene launderies

Poster A: in some muslim countries women have no basic rights, have no right to drive, to be out with a man not her husband or close relative and their word is taken as lesser to that of a man in a court.
Poster B: in Ireland women can't have an abortion and used not be able to get contraception

Poster A: islamic teachings tell the believers to kill and non believers
Poster B: but the old testament tells people to take an eye for an eye

Poster A: islam has al-qaeda, Boko Haram, ISIS and these organisations have resulted in thousands dead
Poster B: christianity has the Westboro Baptist Church, Branch Davidians.

Poster A: muslims are responsible for wholesale slaughters in numerous countries in Africa, Asia and Middle East over the last number of decades
Poster B: christians are responsible for the crusades in 11th, 12th and 13th centuries

Ones I forgot: (for completeness like)
Poster A: in most muslim countries gays are targeted and can even be lawfully killed in some
Poster B: in Ireland we have only just allowed them get married and it used to be illegal and they could be sent to jail although it was most often ignored

This should be sticky'd.

weisses · 25-07-2016 03:36PM

SnakePlissken wrote: »

62% are males, one only has to look at any of the images of migrants arriving enmasse to verify this, but no, the facts do not align themselves to your opinion so you fabricate your own, it's shameful.

Didn't you get the memo ..They are ALL here to rape and kill Europeans... All of them :rolleyes:

25-07-2016 03:36PM

Arne_Saknussem wrote: »

I'd agree with Maajid Nawaz when he talks about the west's liberals and their 'bigotry of low expectations' of people from the Muslim world. People such as he are who the west's 'liberals' should be supporting but the fact is they're being ignored.

I disagree with a lot of what you say, except for this crucial point. Some people seem to view attacks on Islamic teaching as a de facto attack on Muslims, and consequently, Islam comes in for only very mild criticism in mainstream western media.

It is fundamentally dishonest and wrongheaded to dismiss genuine concerns about some Islamic teachings with references to the egregious historical wrongdoing of Christian churches (and some of it isn't even historical).

That is called an appeal to hypocrisy, which is a form of logical fallacy (The fact that I smoke cigarettes does not detract from the truth of my statement 'cigarettes are bad for you').

The last thing we should be importing into Europe is religious extremism, of any variety. I think we need to have an honest conversation about that, which is quite a separate conversation to that of terrorism.

having said that, i certainly don't agree with 'filtering out' Muslims or evangelical Christians, far from it. But I think we should be doing everything we can to mitigate the negative social effects of highly orthodox belief systems, be they Christian or Islamic, by fostering economic activation, common cultural practices and common languages right across the divide.

Most Muslims in Ireland have shown themselves to be perfectly capable of that, as far as I can see, and it's a standard we should expect across Europe.

Mr. CooL ICE · 25-07-2016 03:37PM

Mod:

We have had nuns habits vs niqabs/burkas, islam vs christianity/judaism, sunni vs shia, halal slaughter, the kurdish army and whole host of other things that have very little to do with the OP.

Remember; the thread is about the explosion in Ansbach. Back on topic, folks.

Bob24 · 25-07-2016 03:38PM

ISIS has just claimed responsibility for the attack.

SnakePlissken · 25-07-2016 03:38PM

HensVassal wrote: »

The punishment is irrelevant .

No the punishment IS relevant, how crimes are punished is a clear indication of the barbaric nature of the country in question.

Explosion in bar in Ansbach, Germany

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